DSLR Camera

[Rodney]

I have never owned a dslr camera but if you were going to purchase one in the under 1000 dollar range which one would you prefer if you don`t already have it, and to be used for microscopy and general photography. I would be more concerned with single shot quality.
A lot of the cameras have the touch screen now and I for one do not care for a touch screen. From the reviews the customers claim these cameras in the 500 dollar range are entry level or novice cameras and by no means nothing to jump up and down and scream this is it.
Some claim they are really cheaply plastic made and are over kill at 24 mega pixels when a 18 mega pixel camera will do the same if not better.
The camera market must be really strong because of the thousands of cameras for sale on ebay and other places.

Rodney

[JimT]

I won't make a specific recommendation but one advantage of Canon DSLR's is remote shooting capability.

[vasselle]

Bonjour
Je possède le Canon EOS 1200d est j'en suis entièrement satisfait en plus ce qui est bien avec les boîtiers Canon c'est qui est livré avec le logiciel EOS Utility et ces un vraie plus car il permet de piloter son boitier photo à distance avec un PC.
Par contre je te conseil te rester sur des boitiers de 18 MP pour la photo au microscope car je trouve que les boitiers de plus de 18 MP ne sert pas à grand chose au microscope.
Et les boitier Canon sont beaucoup mieux pour la photo au microscope car moins sensible avec le mode EFCS que les boîtiers Nikon.
En plus le boitier ESO 1200d ne faut pas chère du tout.
Le miens je les acheter neuf à 355 Euros.
Cordialement seb

[c-krebs]

Rodney,

Can I ask what microscope "coupling" you intend to use? What microscope?

The reason I ask is that there are a couple very attractive MFT ("micro four thirds") available. These afe mirrorless but can have some real advantages on a scope. There are some characteristics about the microscope set-up that can determine if the sensor size can be a good "fit", or whether it might be better to go to an APS-C sensor size.

[zzffnn]

Rodney,

My microscope optics, like many older microscope optics, project an image circle of around 18 mm in diameter. So I use a micro four thirds camera (Olympus E-PM2), which has a sensor of about that size and uses interchangeable lenses (such as a Sigma 30mm F/2.8 lens that I use for afocal - visual eyepeice coupling). Eyepiece coupling is used, because my apo objectives need compensating eyepieces.

Newer super wide field microscope optics may work better with APSC sensors.

Charles,
What do you think about the new Panasonic GH4, which has EFSC and 4K video? Are there any other micro 4/3 that you would recommend? For afocal - camera lens - scope eyepiece coupling, which F stop number do you recommend for camera lens?

[c-krebs]

Charles,
What do you think about the new Panasonic GH4, which has EFSC and 4K video? Are there any other micro 4/3 that you would recommend? For afocal - camera lens - scope eyepiece coupling, which F stop number do you recommend for camera lens?

I haven't really studied most of the 4/3 cameras in detail. I do like some of the Olympus bodies.

The GH4 has been around for about 2 years but I don't know anything about it other than what I read. It always gets rave reviews for the video features and video quality, so if that is high on your desirability list it deserves serious consideration. It does have a fully electronic shutter capability which is a feature I would really like on my next camera.

I recently rented an Olympus Pen-F. Pretty spiffy camera. 20Mp sensor. Mechanical shutter, or EFSC, or fully electronic shutter. You can even fire a flash with the fully electronic shutter, which I don't think is possible with any other camera. (Although the fasted flash sync speed with the fully electronic shutter is severely limited at 1/20 second... but at least you can do it). It can use some pretty nice computer tethering software by Olympus if you like that sort of thing. And using a lens like the 60mm macro it can very quickly and automatically shoot a "stack", changing focus slightly with each frame. This could be really nice for outdoor close-up photography.

The Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II has many of these desirable features for about half the price of the above two cameras. The rear screen tilts but is not fully articulated as the above.

With an afocal arrangement the camera lens should probably be set to an aperture slightly larger than the point where you see vignetting in order to keep potential flare to a minimum. There is no other real advantage to any f-stop setting that I am aware of.

[Rodney]

Thanks for the info, no doubt many of those canon cameras do a good job esp. the ones demonstrated or listed by members used in the photos. My biggest mistake was when I purchased this wide angle extra wide lens camera with absolutely no way to control the aperture. I`m not sure how they did it but you can pick up images 90 degrees off to the side, so this is not practical for microscopy work with this camera even though I have made it work to some extent. The smaller lens cameras always worked better with the cheaper point and shoot cameras with the microscopes I have which are mostly the 160mm scopes you find on ebay which have those 20 and 30 buck objectives everywhere and the microscopes can be found everywhere for under 100 bucks. Also none of my microscopes have a photo tube, I just prop the camera up to a home made device and to the eyepiece and go for the best. So when I do buy a DSLR camera I think it should work a lot better since you have way more functions to control the camera.
As a hobby I just do what I enjoy and I will try another camera.

Rodney

[gekko]

If you have a "modernish" cell phone, have you tried using it? I've seen excellent images taken with cellphone cameras held in front of the eyepiece.

[zzffnn]

I recently rented an Olympus Pen-F. Pretty spiffy camera. 20Mp sensor. Mechanical shutter, or EFSC, or fully electronic shutter. You can even fire a flash with the fully electronic shutter, which I don't think is possible with any other camera. (Although the fasted flash sync speed with the fully electronic shutter is severely limited at 1/20 second... but at least you can do it). It can use some pretty nice computer tethering software by Olympus if you like that sort of thing. And using a lens like the 60mm macro it can very quickly and automatically shoot a "stack", changing focus slightly with each frame. This could be really nice for outdoor close-up photography.

Thank you very much, Charles. Your comments are very helpful.

It is not possible to use EFSC with flash on most cameras too, correct? 1/20 shutter is indeed very limited, as environment light (instead of fast flash) blend in too much.

Did you mean that the Pen-F can do focus stacking by itself, without outside means of focus change, and without mechanical vibration? That is without Olymous auto macro lens only, I guess? I understand its range might be limited, but still very neat feature. Thank you again.

[Johann]

Hi Charles, I would very much like to get your opinion on dedicated microscope cameras, like the Olympus SC50. Do they provide same/better/worse quality images as high end DSLR cameras?

[c-krebs]

Hi Charles, I would very much like to get your opinion on dedicated microscope cameras, like the Olympus SC50. Do they provide same/better/worse quality images as high end DSLR cameras?

Johann,
I can't speak directly to your question because while I have used a couple "low-end" ones years ago I have no experience with anything on the market today. There are a few reasons I have not had much interest in exploring them. With my primary microscope system... an Olympus BHS... the objectives were designed to be used with chromatically corrective eyepieces. The lowest strength of the NFK projection eyepieces that Olympus made was a 1.67X. As a result the smallest sensor that I am willing to use is the APS-C size. (I could go to an "afocal" method, but Olympus did not make that simple to do with their TR-30 trinocular head... different topic for a different time.) With few exceptions the scientific cameras use sensors of or near the 1/2" designation. These typically will be used with a "reduction" optic of around 0.5X in order to make a good fit of the intermediate image onto the sensor. I can't do this easily on my BHS.

It's one of the reasons why the newer "infinity" systems can be much more versatile when it comes to camera usage. The intermediate image is completed, there is no additional correction needed. All you need is the correct optic (if any) to fit the intermediate image to the camera sensor size. The trinocular heads don't have a long fixed tube for the camera, so just about any camera can be readily adapted.

I've talked to a few people who have used the dedicated microscope cameras, but came back to using a "consumer" camera. I get the impression that there are some situations where they might be preferable or even necessary, some examples...

A) You need pixel shifting (or a three sensor camera) to avoid any any color "errors" that might occur from a Bayer pattern filter. For most of us this is not an issue and some Olympus and Pentax cameras offer this capability.

B) You are working with extremely faint fluorescent signals and a Peltier cooled sensor can help keep noise levels down. (But even most dedicated microscope cameras don't have this).

C) Your work really needs the camera to be integrated with the sophisticated software suites that most manufacturers provide (sometimes at great additional cost!).

As far as overall image quality is concerned for the types of things I do (and I suspect this is the case with many other enthusiasts and hobbyists) they offer no real improvement and may in fact may not look as good. They can be hugely expensive. The economies of scale due to the disparity in the production numbers of higher end microscope camera and something like a Canon T3i or a current Olympus 4/3 body are huge. Electronic flash has been a big part of the techniques I utilize, and this is not readily accomplished (or in many cases possible) with microscope cameras.

Now that you can select from "consumer" cameras with fully electronic shutters, and/or pixel shifting, I think most of us, doing the type of photography we do, would need to have a very specific reason (and a healthy budget) to go the "scientific camera" route. (Naturally I will add a big IMO to all this )

[Rodney]

I found a new canon t3i out of state for about $450.00, and with all the accessories so I purchased it. A good many used ones were in the $350.00 range but I decided to go new. May take a while for me to learn just part of it, but I can ask a question when needed.
Not sure when the camera will be shipped out.

Rodney

[Rodney]

Computer screen shot of the camera I purchased out of the box.

Rodney

[Johann]

...

Thanks Charles, for the detailed and insightful reply, much appreciated.

[Rodney]

I got the camera late last week, very nice, but looks like it will be a while before I really try it out much. I`m at page 43 of the 323 page manual, and I have no way to mount it to any microscopes I have, none of my scopes are trinoc`s. If I do post a picture the point and shoot camera will be it for the time being and possibly longer.

Rodney

[c-krebs]

Rodney,

What microscope do you have? What eyepieces?
In particular, do you feel that the eyepiece tubes are substantial enough to hold the weight of the camera without stressing them too much?

I`m at page 43 of the 323 page manual

Not a bad idea (especially if you have never used a DSLR before), but remember, you will probably never use many of the options in the covered in the manual, especially when it is used on a microscope. Don't let it become intimidating.

[Charles]

I got the camera late last week, very nice, but looks like it will be a while before I really try it out much. I`m at page 43 of the 323 page manual, and I have no way to mount it to any microscopes I have, none of my scopes are trinoc`s. If I do post a picture the point and shoot camera will be it for the time being and possibly longer.

Rodney

Hi Rodney,

As a start you could try something like this which can be put into one of the eyepiece tubes of your binoc or mono microscope:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/190814167256?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT
There should be software included with your camera (EOS Utility) which will allow tethering so you can view live view on your computer. If the software wasn't included, you can download it on the Canon site.

[Rodney]

Thanks Charles, no doubt that ebay item is a step in the right direction for these old heavy weight Bausch and Lomb and American Optical binocular and monocular scopes I have. Yes I do have the CD that came with the bundle, plus a extra screw on macro lens, 2 batteries, charger and 2 cables and manual. I may just upgrade to a good trinoc scope later.

Rodney

[mrsonchus]

Hello again Rodney, how are things old chap?

re that e-bay item suggested by Charles...

I use the exact-same adapter for my Canon EOS1200D DSLR on my 'scope/s (although I have a trinoc) and it works perfectly. The two adapters (sleeves) pictured with it will enable you to use it in 3 different 'barrel sizes' of 'scope.
For example -
1) my trinoc-camera-tube is the usual 23 mm size so the adapter as it is without one of the two supplied 'collars' will go straight into that,
2) one of the supplied-sleeve sizes fits the eyepieces of my trinoc 'scope,
3) the other sized sleeve fits the eyepieces (it's not a trinoc) of my stereo 'scope..

So all together you will be able to use the adapter and camera in no less than 3 types of tube!

Good luck with your choice.

p.s. a tip for using the camera with tethering software such as the excellent EOS utility -

The mode (on the cameras dial such as 'P, Tv, M etc) dictates which settings will be available in the software to change - I always have the camera dial set to 'M' for 'scope tethering as this allows the maximum number of settings for the camera to be adjusted within the tethering software - in this case 'EOS utility'...

Make sure the camera's screen is off while tethered - it doesn't need to be looked at - by pressing either the liveview or display buttons on the camera when you have it's pictures on the PC screen.

Buy a 'plug-in battery' adapter that fits into the camera where the battery fits but enables the camera to be used from the mains electricity - no need to keep re-charging the 'real' battery with one of these!

[Rodney]

Thanks John for the extra info, that plug in adapter is also a very good idea. No doubt that will be something else to purchase.

Rodney