USB camera vs DSLR

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btschumy
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USB camera vs DSLR

#1 Post by btschumy » Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:10 am

Forgive me if this is a common question. I searched the forums and didn't find anything that quite addressed my question.

I've recently gotten back into microscopy. I have a Canon 450D (XSi) DSLR (circa 2007) mounted on top of a Leitz SM-D LUX scope. Right now I'm tethering using Canon's "Canon Utility 2" software. This is working semi-OK but the software leaves a lot to be desired. The tethering software I'd like to use doesn't support this older camera. The 450D also can't capture video and I'd like that capability.

I'm debating whether to update to a newer DSLR or go with a dedicated USB camera. I don't really need a new DSLR for other purposes as my old Canon and my phone serve me well for that. It seems I can get a newer Canon body for $300-$400 that would suit my needs.

It seems for that amount of money (or less) I can get a pretty nice USB camera (e.g. Touptek).

I would appreciate your thoughts on which way I should go. I've seen threads saying that a DSLR will blow away the USB camera and I've also seen the reverse.

If I go the USB cam route, what is the recommended sensor size and megapixel count (or is it just whatever you can afford)?

Thanks,
Bill
Bill Tschumy
Leitz SM-D LUX
AO Spencer "Cycloptic" Stereo Microscope (Series 56C)

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Crater Eddie
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Re: USB camera vs DSLR

#2 Post by Crater Eddie » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:48 am

I guess it depends on what your goals are. Some of the fellows here take pretty good photos with their USB cameras. I have a cheaper 3mp one and can get fair photos with it. I don't know about the higher dollar ones, maybe someone will chime in who has experience with one. I don't think you are going to get very good video with a USB camera you have pretty deep pockets, and even them I'm still not sure.
Not much help, sorry.
CE
Last edited by Crater Eddie on Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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kit1980
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Re: USB camera vs DSLR

#3 Post by kit1980 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:18 am

Have you considered a micro four thirds mirrorless camera? With mirrorless you don't need to worry about mirror slap vibration (but the camera needs a fully electronic shutter to prevent shutter-induced vibrations), and the size of the sensor is convenient for 1:1 direct projection without intermediate optics.

I moved from 14MP USB2 ToupTek camera to Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II camera and I'm pretty happy with this move. The biggest problem I (and some other people) had with the ToupTek is very visible color unevenness from one corner to another. Speed of capture was also too low with the USB2 camera. I find general image quality is also much better with my new camera. And the field of view is much larger now.

The number of consumer cameras sold every year is several orders of magnitude larger than for USB microscope cameras, so much more money can be spent for research and design, and price can be lowered because of the scale. So I think for the same price overall quality will be much better for a consumer camera vs a USB microscope camera.
Omax microscope with Nikon CF objectives
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http://sdymphoto.com/

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btschumy
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Re: USB camera vs DSLR

#4 Post by btschumy » Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:23 pm

So far it sounds like two votes for upgrading to a better DSLR. Any other opinions?

Kit, could you give me an example of a "micro four thirds mirrorless camera"? I haven't noticed a problem with mirror induced vibration but maybe I'm not at the level yet where I'd notice it.
Bill Tschumy
Leitz SM-D LUX
AO Spencer "Cycloptic" Stereo Microscope (Series 56C)

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Re: USB camera vs DSLR

#5 Post by kit1980 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:44 pm

btschumy wrote:Kit, could you give me an example of a "micro four thirds mirrorless camera"? I haven't noticed a problem with mirror induced vibration but maybe I'm not at the level yet where I'd notice it.
I use Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II. Body only is about $650 new, and it has fully electronic shutter.
Omax microscope with Nikon CF objectives
Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II camera
http://sdymphoto.com/

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btschumy
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Re: USB camera vs DSLR

#6 Post by btschumy » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:53 pm

I was just reading about mirror-less cameras. Thanks for the info.

It seems to me that with a regular DSLR, if you are using Live View (like you do when tethering), then the mirror is already locked up and thus you would not get mirror slap. In that use case there would be no advantage to the mirror-less cameras. Is that not the case?
Bill Tschumy
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AO Spencer "Cycloptic" Stereo Microscope (Series 56C)

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Re: USB camera vs DSLR

#7 Post by kit1980 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:03 pm

btschumy wrote:I was just reading about mirror-less cameras. Thanks for the info.

It seems to me that with a regular DSLR, if you are using Live View (like you do when tethering), then the mirror is already locked up and thus you would not get mirror slap. In that use case there would be no advantage to the mirror-less cameras. Is that not the case?
In this case you are not using the mirror, so why buy a camera with one?
And I believe not all DSLRs have mirror lock-up, or may have some limitations on duration, etc.
Shutter type is also important - fully electronic one is the best.

For me main advantage of mirrorless was probably short flange distance, so I can mount it without intermediate optics using direct projection.
Depending on your microscope it can be not important to you.
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Pat Thielen
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Re: USB camera vs DSLR

#8 Post by Pat Thielen » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:12 am

Because I don't have any experience in using a USB camera my response will be biased in favor of a DSLR. What I've found so far is using it on a firm surface is very important. The microscope will respond to footsteps and movement near it and an unsteady table or desk will really be a detriment. It really doesn't take much at all to ruin a shot with vibration from the table or floor. Using mirror lockup is a great technique, and I've found using live mode is really nice because the mirror is locked up already and you can sometimes focus by using the screen only. That really ensures your photo will be in focus as it is sometimes a bit tricky to perfectly calibrate the camera with what you're seeing.

If you decide to get a new DSLR you'll find it has many improvement from your older one and I'm sure you'll find many uses for it off the microscope. And, you could even convert the old camera to infrared if you wanted to go a different route. There are a lot of possibilities.
Pat Thielen
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btschumy
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Re: USB camera vs DSLR

#9 Post by btschumy » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:50 am

Pat,

Thanks for the additional thoughts. Yes, I agree that Live Mode, particularly when tethered, is a great way to focus.

So it sounds like the few who have responded think I should upgrade to a better DSLR. Is anyone going to defend the USB camera?
Bill Tschumy
Leitz SM-D LUX
AO Spencer "Cycloptic" Stereo Microscope (Series 56C)

Interference
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Re: USB camera vs DSLR

#10 Post by Interference » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:16 am

Bill - if not too late
If you go for a newer Canon be careful if it's for stills.
It's not just mirror lockup you want but also one with a vibration free shuttter. Electronic First Curtain Shutter they all have, but they make a small "tick" noise, which in some cases causes a problem.
Most are fairly vibration free, from Live view, some wobble just a little. The 60D wobbles a lot.

The 80D wobbles, but less I think than the 60D.

The lesser Canons (eg the Rebels)cycle the mirror on every shot, which can move a delicate live subject. The higher level ones don't. I'm not sure offhand how high. The x0D series don't iirc.

You'll have to look up equivalent model numbers, I lose track!

An advantage of some Mirrorless cameras is that they can have entirely electronic, vibrationless "shutters".

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btschumy
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Re: USB camera vs DSLR

#11 Post by btschumy » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:47 pm

I went with the 700D. It seems to be working well for me.
Bill Tschumy
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Interference
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Re: USB camera vs DSLR

#12 Post by Interference » Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:39 pm

I have one I use on a stand permanently too.
Seems OK. Tiny noise means a detectable vibration (try a camera phone sensor) but I don't think it affects anything much. It's VERY small.

Warning -
1) I made an error with its predecessor: I plugged a Battery-replacement while ON, in to the camera which was also ON.
Camera's an "Error 70" brick now.
2) If I use a "chipped" adapter I get all sorts of error messages, Easier to use one with no chip!
Interference

amanda1
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Re: USB camera vs DSLR

#13 Post by amanda1 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:11 am

I suggest you to choose USB camera

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