decent 2x camera adapter - Imaging Apparatus company?

[oakleywerks]

I'm looking for 2x adapter that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, but that has decent glass and machining of decent quality. Forum member Hendo mentioned his here viewtopic.php?t=3061#p31604
and I tried to PM him to ask about it, but can't get the message to send... it just sits in outbox and never enters Sent when I submit. So, if anyone can comment on this particular company's stuff- proper fit, decent quality machining and glass - it would be helpful. Looks like I can find the adapter at Imaging Apparatus.

For an AO 20 trinoc, I need to go from 23.2mm phototube to a Canon or Sony E mount. I believe that for an APS-C sensor, using a 2x projection lens should get me about where I need to be (especially for the Sony, which is a slightly larger sensor). They adapters run about $100, which doesn't seem exorbitant. And until I figure out what's up with the PM system, if anyone sees Hendo (Steve) please direct him to me!

[75RR]

Can't help with the 2x adapter for the AO

Can help on your other problem:

... but can't get the message to send... it just sits in outbox and never enters Sent when I submit.

Message will sit in the outbox until the recipient views it - at that point it disappears from the outbox and appears under sent.

[apochronaut]

Getting the right adapters for your camera is the easy part. What I would be concerned about is whether the lens in the Imaging Apparatus unit will produce a good flat, well corrected field and give parfocality with the AO eyepieces. I assume you are using # 176 eyepieces.

I assembled my camera set up for a 4, a 10 , a 20 or any of the 100 series, with some inexpensive adapters. The parfocal distance is a little different on each, especially on the 160mm tube series 4, so the bottom part of the adapter is designed to slide up and down the trinocular tube , bringing the camera closer or farther away from the eyepiece installed in the tube. With this arrangement my APS-C ( Sony a5000) sensor can be adjusted to see out to the edge of whatever field that the eyes are seeing. For the infinity objectives I am using the cat. # 1054 focusing eyepiece( 10x), with whatever reticle that was in it removed. The small amount of focus the eyepiece provides, helps fine tune the parfocality.
There may be a better eyepiece choice for a camera tube lens , I haven't played around too much with the short objective infinity system , mainly because I am fairly happy with the current results. I did initially trial an off the shelf photo lens and it produced way too much coma in the corners.

[wporter]

If you have the AO 1043 trinoc head, then look for a 1067 2.8x to 5x zoom relay lens/shutter combo and make an adapter to attach it to your camera (remove the Prontor shutter, it will be useless). If you are sure all you need is 2x, take a look at this thing on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Microscope-Rela ... SwFnFV~3M6

This seems to be a relay lens; as such, I think it fits directly into your trinocular head photo opening and doesn't need a photo eyepiece. Obviously, I can't vouch for the quality. But with returns offered, and the relatively low price...

[oakleywerks]

Thank you both. Yes, I have #176 10x eyepieces. Hopefully the member who has the adapter will respond about the lens quality. My understanding is that I don't need any additional correction, as it is achieved prior to the eye pieces for the AO 20.

[wporter]

Here's one of the AO photo relay lenses which might work for you (chime in, anybody, & tell me if I'm correct or not):


http://www.ebay.com/itm/AO-Scientific-I ... Sww3tY6qd1

[oakleywerks]

wporter, Good point about the ebay item. For the AO #1067 you mentioned, do you know what it would take to "make an adapter"? Also, I can't seem to find information about the #1067, but is it something like this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/AO-Scientific-I ... Sww3tY6qd1 I believe this ebay listing is an AO Cat. No. 1091 with 2.8-5x magnification. It was typically attached to an AO #1090 expostar shutter control.. (I have a 1091 but haven't explored how to adapt it, thus my interest in your comment about making an adapter).

[75RR]

Have you seen this link?

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1976&hilit=american+optical

[oakleywerks]

wporter, Good point about the ebay adapter from China-it's inexpensive and I'd noted it, but then saw the older thread about the Imaging Apparatus adapter. Now, For the AO #1067 you mentioned, do you know what it would take to "make an adapter"? Also, I can't seem to find information about the #1067, but is it something like this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/AO-Scientific-I ... Sww3tY6qd1 I believe this ebay listing is an AO Cat. No. 1091 with 2.8-5x magnification. It was typically attached to an AO #1090 expostar shutter control.. (I have a 1091 but haven't explored how to adapt it, thus my interest in your comment about making an adapter). It could be that 2.8x is not ideal for e.g., a Sony sensor that is diagonal 28.21 mm. I'd calculated (using Charles Krebs website) that 2x was actually a really good fit (but I wouldn't mind putting the AO 1091 I have into play, if I could figure out how to adapt it).

[oakleywerks]

and 75RR, I had seen that thread previously (and I actually worked with the OP in that thread to piece my gear together, but we didn't have time to discuss camera adapters).

[wporter]

Apparently the AO relay lenses came in two versions, one, the 1067, with a plain snout that fit into the trinoc head port, and with only a Prontor shutter inside. The later version, the 1091, was basically the same, but also had a photocell fitting coming off the side of the snout (see the ebay pix), and perhaps a beam-splitter prism or mirror inside; this necessitated using a different, newer style trinoc head, one with a cut-out or notch, in the side of the trinoc bore collar to accommodate the sideways photocell protrusion.

Making an adapter to connect a camera to the top of the relay lens (1067 or 1091) housing would probably involve some machining, or at least some drilling and epoxying and tiny screws. I would start by getting a "T-adapter" for your camera, putting it on your camera body (no camera lens used here), and resting it on the flat top of the 1091 (from which you have removed the shutter) which you have mounted on your microscope. In this position you can determine if the variable mag of the relay suits your purposes, looking at a specimen through the camera and working the 1091 zoom lever. If you like what you see, you can then (or have done) permanently attach the T-adapter to the 1091, making sure to be concentric to the relay lens (the 1091 has the usual AO two-dogs-and-a-screw connection scheme; this bore is slightly non-concentric with the relay lens).

Another way to permanently attach a camera to your 1091 would be to scavenge one of the old cameras/tubes that AO sold that connected between their old film camera and the top of the 1091, & attach your camera (using the T-adapter again) to the top of that tube; that way would preserve the quick connection to the 1091, and the exact magnification scheme (due to the tube length acting like an extension).

[apochronaut]

The problem with the AO camera adapters is that they capture a low percentage of the visual field. You can increase the field by increasing the distance but you lose focus. The 2.8x-8x adjustment is a focus adjustment, not a f.o.v. adjustment. The f.o.v. adjustment is provided by interchanging various extension tubes and with the correct length extension tube and parfocality, the captured image, is only about 65% of the visual field that the # 176 eyepieces see.

I tried all of the possible camera adapters, on a 20 and eventually realized that the # 1054 focusing eyepiece was the way to go. I fact, I also trialled about 20 other eyepieces, including some much vaunted photo eyepieces, from other makers. The optical results in that photo tube, using the # 1054 eyepiece, were the best of all I trialled for several reasons.
Firstly, the optics in it were designed to do double duty as a photo framing eyepiece and as a general measuring eyepiece in that system. It is designed to carry various reticles of all sorts, so it produces a clean well corrected image, consistent with the eyepiece image, projecting the entire visual field to the sensor at parfocality. The photo adapters were good except gave a restricted field at parfocality. If you want the Sony APS-C sensor to see exactly what your eyes are seeing and be parfocal, the cat. # 1054 eyepiece can do that. If you want a more magnified image on your sensor, then perhaps the photo tube is the way to go.
The teaching adapter concept works better with the 400 series than the 10/20 or 110/120 series because the short 34mm objectives need further correction from the telon lens in the head : the 410 objectives don't, especially the plan fluorites, so going direct to sensor is possible. The post 75RR linked to is a theoretical post only. You will note that there are no images in that post.


I will post some measurements later as well as a couple of images. I can't quite recall the distance from the sensor for the set up I use . I posted it once before, probably in an rnabholz thread. I think Rod uses a similar set up and had similar misgivings over the factory photo adapters.

[oakleywerks]

Apo, looking into that eyepiece though none on the bay at present. Thanks

[apochronaut]

Apo, looking into that eyepiece though none on the bay at present. Thanks

I may have a good extra one. I will look. There is also # 473, which was the cat. # for the series 100 and the 483, which was the cat. # for the series 400. These presumably, provide an image consistent with those other two series visual eyepieces # 180 and # 181, respectively. # 483 would not work well, I think but 473, might. One drawback of those two is that the barrels are much larger and in the system I made, the adapter needs to be wider than the widest point of the eyepiece because the adapter needs to be able to be adjusted vertically, on the Photo tube to focus the camera.
The other thing is that the optical tube diameter of the series 10/20 barely accommodates the 19mm f.o.v. of the 176 eyepieces. I have tried 20mm # 180s and there was some vignetting. The # 473, might be able to be adjusted to overcome that because I recall that # 176A will work and they are 20mm. Both 176A and 180 give a slightly flatter and better corrected image edge. Wide field was in it's infancy when the #176 and it's compatible plan objectives were designed, so the edges, especially with the # 1019 10x objective show a little coma and lateral chromatic aberration.
You will see that on the two pictures here: a hand held afocal picture, showing the entire field and the next, a mounted picture, parfocal with the eyepieces , 16:9 aspect ratio , showing the actual field captured to a Sony APS-C sensor. These were taken on a 10, with the 18 watt tungsten illuminator.

The distance from the top edge of the eyepiece to the sensor is just about 50mm +- a bit I am using 9mm from the sensor surface to the coupling shoulder on the Sony alpha 5000 and I measured 41mm from the top of the eyepiece to the top edge of the bayonet ring.

[apochronaut]

I do have an extra good # 1054 focusing eyepiece, if you are interested. I tried the # 473 focusing eyepiece and it is a 20mm f.o.v. eyepiece, which vignettes and as well has a very large barrel, as mentioned.

With 20mm eyepieces , there is vignetting with objectives 40x and up. There is a light peripheral shadow, with the # 1116 achromat, about the same with the # 1023, planachro, worse with the 1309 but curiously not too bad with the # 1128... the most recent planachro they developed. The # 1303 63x is really bad. The # 1323 planapo is about the same as the # 1309.

P.M. me , if you are interested in the eyepiece.