Any experience with a Canon XTi?

[Crater Eddie]

A friend has offered me his old XTi for use on my microscope. It's an older model of course, but not one to look a gift horse in the mouth I of course accepted. I don't have it yet, hope to pick it up in the next few days.
Does anyone have any experience with this camera? Tips / warnings?
CE

[mrsonchus]

Hi, I've just looked up the XTi and it looks to me to be an earlier version of cameras like my 1200D...
This camera should I think be very nearly as good as the 1200D if not equal to it for microscopy...

I'm having some very good results now I've got the hang of the Camera->'scope setup and use. The Canon EOS tethering software and editing suite that come free with their cameras are in my experience simply superb. Get the latest versions online they're excellent.

I'm going to post some pictures of my camera-adapter-scope arrangement as soon as I can - I might get it on the forum tonight with a bit of luck.

regards

[Crater Eddie]

I would love to see that John, thanks!
I looked these up online too. Looks like they are available on the used market at very reasonable prices. If I like the way this one works I might pick up another one for use on my stereo microscope at work.
Other comments are welcome.

CE

[JimT]

Canon XTI was also the 400D; 10 MP APS-C CMOS, introduced in 2006. Still a good camera and a great camera if your friend is giving it to you. Does he still have the processing software?
I use my Canon 60D and think they are great cameras.

[Crater Eddie]

I expect he still has the software, he is the kind that keeps nearly everything. I'll find out.

[gekko]

I expect he still has the software, he is the kind that keeps nearly everything. I'll find out.

If not, it is possible that you can simply download it from the Canon website. Does this model have "quiet" or "silent" mode where I think it uses an electronic shutter rather than its mechanical shutter, and thus avoid shutter-induced vibrations (I know some Canon models do)? A wonderful gift!

[Crater Eddie]

He isn't actually giving it to me, I'm getting it on indefinite loan since he doesn't use it any more. Which is practically the same thing.
CE

[The QCC]

The Canon XTi is a newer version of the Canon XS.
I have an XS mounted on an old B & L.
The Xti has Live View and the Canon EOS Utility supports the XTi in LiveView.
The XS and XTi do not support the silent mode of the higher end Canon cameras.
The mirror action on the XTi and XS is noisy, but there is no vibration effect in the photos.
The XTi will make an excellent microscope camera. The down side is the Canon Utilities is a capture only programme. There are no measurement or processing features. Stacking, measuring, etc. will have to be performed in a other software packages.

IMG_0124.jpg (98.97 KiB) Viewed 13745 times

You can download the Canon Utilities software from the Canon USA site.
http://www.usa.canon.com
Please note: You will need the original CD. The software on the XTi site are all updates, so one of the key Canon programmes must first be installed.
Alternately, you can select the Canon T3 and download the installation CD.
EOS Digital Solution Disk Software 29.1A for Windows
"This is an EOS DIGITAL software package for customers who cannot use bundled CD containing the EOS Digital Solution Disk Software. "

[Crater Eddie]

Thanks to everyone for all the great advice and information. This all gives me many ideas and things to research. I appreciate the links too, was wondering about the software issue in case he has lost his disc. Hopefully I'll get to pick up the camera sometime next week after all this nasty weather moves out. Of course this has me wanting a trinocular head for my microscope, so am now looking at those too.
CE

[Crater Eddie]

I won an Ebay auction for a trinocular viewing head for my MultiScope, it's the MFN-11 which is the original version that the TH-30 (sold on the US market) was based on, or so I understand. It's coming from Moscow, so I'll have to wait until early April probably for it to arrive. (I have got to stop buying things from Moscow, this waiting on delivery is killing me!)
I located a LOMO VA-F2 relay lens for it, which attaches between the trinoc and the camera, I'm not sure exactly what kind of adapter I need to connect the camera to this, and if I need an extension tube or not. The LOMO PLC site description of the relay lens reads: "Photo Tube Adapter with relay lens. Magnification factor: 2.4X. Equipped with T-mount and includes "T-mount to Pentax-mount" adapter". The one I got is New Old Stock, still in the factory wrapper, but it's just the relay lens assembly itself, it didn't include any separate parts.
I have this in hand, how do I figure out what I need to connect the camera to it?
I'm sorry if this is a dumb question, I don't know much about cameras.

Edit:

Looking at this thing more closely I discovered that the Pentax adapter was indeed included, it's screwed onto the end. Duh!
That isn't really helpful though.

[gekko]

Great. My thoughts, for what they are worth, would be to wait until you get all the bits and pieces. Meanwhile I would consider carefully if I want to connect the camera directly to the scope or attach the camera independently of the scope and if so, how (see, for example, 75RR's tripod mount). I do something similar by attaching the camera to an adjacent bookshelf. I think this would be advisable since, as The QCC mentioned above, your camera does not have "silent" mode and is liable to transmit the shutter vibration to the scope resulting in blurring of the image at intermediate shutter speeds (but would be OK for very long or very shutter speeds) . If you decide to do it that way, then you won't be connecting the projection lens adapter to your camera. My 2 cents' worth.

[75RR]

Looked it up (not sure if I saw yours).

Micro-photo attachment MFN-11 to microscope on camera with M39 mount. Magnification сhanger 1.1x, 1.6x, 2,5x and Bertrand lens.

That looks pretty good!

[The QCC]

The Lomo adapter with a 2.5x lens and T-mount will fit perfectly to a Canon XTi with a T-mount to canon adapter.
I bought this on eBay for $20.00.
The tubes are a bonus and can be used on any 25mm OD photo or eye tube.
You may need them to extend the distance between the 2.5x lens and the camera sensor.

[Crater Eddie]

Hmmm... let me take these in reverse order here...

The QCC: Great! Thanks, this is what I wanted to know! And thanks for that link, I'll check it out.

75RR: That sounds like mine, yes. I had forgotten that it called out that M39 mount. Thanks for the reminder, I'll look that up.

Gekko: I understand what you are saying, and I appreciate your advice. I would just like to have all the parts ready to assemble when the trinoc arrives.

[Crater Eddie]

Gekko, I have been thinking about the possibility of vibration induced by the camera. The QCC stated that he does not experience any camera induced shake with his similar camera. However, as my LOMO Multiscope has proven to be somewhat susceptible to vibration, possibly due to lighter construction, this might well prove to be an issue for me.
One problem that I see with mounting the camera independently of the microscope is that the Multiscope is of a "moving arm" design, that is, the focusing mechanism moves the optical assembly up and down above the stage. If the camera is not mounted to the tube, then the distance between the microscope optics and the camera will change as the focus is adjusted, this can't be a good thing.
The other microscope that is still in transit from Russia is of a more standard design, with solid arm and moving stage focusing. It might well turn out that this frame will be my photographic instrument, with the Multiscope reserved for visual use.
So what all this boils down to is, yes, I just need to be patient and see what's what when everything arrives.
Good advice.

[The QCC]

Crater Eddie:

I have my Canon XS mounted on the B & L which has the same focusing method as your microscope. The optics are moved up and down, not the stage.

Any vibration from the DSLR comes from the mirror going up and down. Canon cameras with Live view employ an electronic first shutter curtain. This EFSC reduces noise AND vibration.

I believe you can safely mount your XTi on your microscope without fear of vibration effects.

This article describes it better.

[Crater Eddie]

Thanks very much for that information and the link! That is a great article with some very good information.
I thought the name of the author sounded familiar so I Googled him and found his website. What a wealth of information! I had stumbled upon his site some years ago and lost it. I now have it well bookmarked, and many of his PDF's downloaded.
CE

[mrsonchus]

Crater Eddie:

I have my Canon XS mounted on the B & L which has the same focusing method as your microscope. The optics are moved up and down, not the stage.

Any vibration from the DSLR comes from the mirror going up and down. Canon cameras with Live view employ an electronic first shutter curtain. This EFSC reduces noise AND vibration.

I believe you can safely mount your XTi on your microscope without fear of vibration effects.

This article describes it better.

Really useful & informative link - thanks for posting it.

[Crater Eddie]

The trinoc from Russia arrived today.




Everything looks good... mostly.
It fits the Multiscope just fine. The magnification changer works fine, the prism mechanism works fine, and the optics look good, just a little dust here and there.
But...
The diopter adjustment is jammed, won't turn at all, and of course it's off just a bit.
The oculars are just a bit out of collimation, just enough to give a slight double image. It makes me wonder if someone was trying to un-jam the diopter sleeve and sprung the alignment a bit. Is there a way to fix this? Maybe the eyepiece just is slightly misaligned because of the issue with the adjuster sleeve.
Any ideas?

[75RR]

Hi Eddie,

Good news that the trinocular arrived, sorry to hear "the diopter adjustment is jammed" .

May I suggest a new thread for this. With the headline something along the lines of "Jammed Diopter - Help!"

Post is hiding under "Canon XTi" at the moment. Better if it were in Microscopes and optics.

P.S. Is the cardboard box your provisional LED Project Box?

[Crater Eddie]

That's a good point, I'll do that. Thanks.
No, that's just a random box that a happened to be sitting there.

[Crater Eddie]

The adapter arrived today to connect the Canon camera to the M39 threads of the relay lens. It fits perfectly, but it is bright polished aluminum. I expected it to be flat black like all the other optical parts... the other adapter I have as well as the extension tubes are all black inside and out. This thing stands out like a beacon.

[75RR]

Looks like you have two choices - you either spray-paint it or you risk a run-in with the fashion police.
You do not want to mess with the fashion police! ;)

[Crater Eddie]

[Crater Eddie]

But seriously, I guess I was just surprised... I thought it was just common sense for everything in the optical path to be blackened to help prevent stray light scatter. This thing is just a big mirror, inside and out. I guess I can paint it if it's a problem.

[gekko]

Some quick comments for what they are worth:

1. If you don't have this, you can download the PDF file for details on collimating the binocular head:
https://archive.org/details/APracticalG ... ollimation
You can also Google the subject for additional information.

2. As others have indicated, you should have no problem with vibration when you mount the camera directly to the microscope if your camera has an electronic shutter ("silent mode") as many Canon DSLR models do ( but not all; but I take The QCC's assertion that your model does). However, with a mechanical shutter, the shutter (as well as the mirror if it is not locked up) will very likely cause vibration problems.

3. Flat black paint: I think you can get good recommendations for flat black paint from astronomy forums. I've found Krylon Camouflage Ultra-flat spray paint as good as any that I've tried, so it probably will be satisfactory. But yes, I would say do paint it on the inside (even though it may not be necessary to do so if the light path is such that no stray light hits the inside of the adapter). After painting it, I wold let it sit for several days to dry out and degas in order not to get any solvent on your optics. If I can smell the paint solvent I would wait longer.

[Crater Eddie]

I had not found that, thanks for the link. He shows one of the most common LOMO binocular heads, mine is basically the trinocular version of the same head, so I'll bet the adjustment is the same. From reading this it seems that this might be a relatively easy repair, I'm all for that!

I'll try the adapter the way it is and see how it goes. If I have glare issues I'll see about the flat black paint. I hope to get the camera one day next week.

[Crater Eddie]

I now have the camera, but not the disc. I went to the Canon site as suggested above and downloaded the software for the T3, but it does not include the Live View, or at least I can't find it. I did get the EOS, and I can use it to shoot photos, but I can't get live video on the computer screen, and I cannot get live video on the camera screen either. This makes it rather difficult.
The guy I am borrowing the camera from says that he probably has the disc somewhere, but I don't know when he will find it.
Any ideas?
CE

Later...

After doing a quite a bit of searching online, I find that the XTi does not have the Live View feature at all. Live View was not introduced until the next model, the XSi.
CE

[Crater Eddie]

10x objective with extra 1.6x provided by LOMOVAR


It is usable, as you can see from the image above. But, I can't use the computer monitor or the camera display for any type of image preview, I just have to snap a photo and then view it to see what I have. This makes getting the camera parfocal with the eyepieces an exercise in frustration, but I am getting there.
I have the camera connected directly to the relay lens, I might add an extension tube or two later to see how that effects the image. I know that will project a slightly larger image onto the imaging sensor, resulting in more cropping, I'll just have to find out how much.
CE

[The QCC]

Unfortunately, the Canon XTi is not on the list for Remote Shooting with Live View.
However, you can download the Canon Remote Shooting software from Canon. This will allow you to control the camera from your PC and download the photos to the PC.

This is the list of Canon cameras that support Live View remote shooting.

From the Canon XTi web site pages
"EOS Utility (Version 1.1) for Macintosh or Windows handles the connection between the camera and computer, whenever they’re connected via USB. It allows remote controlled shooting from the computer, handles downloading of images from the camera to the computer, and allows seamless linking to either Canon’s ZoomBrowser/ImageBrowser or Digital Photo Professional software once images have been copied to the hard drive. Furthermore, it’s used to upload settings back into a USB-connected camera. "