First microscope

[Glycolyse]

Hi everyone,

My time to purchase my first microscope has finally arrived. Because I read a lot of articles on the forum about the subject, I think to know what I want as a first microscope.

The thing is, I am a bit scared about buying a microscope from Ebay (used, known brand). But I know at the same time that it could be worthy (upgrades possibilities).

Anyways, I might have found a really good offer. Here are the specs (it's a Zeiss binocular by the way):
- Comes with a pair of Carl Zeiss KPL 8x Oculars.
- Plan 2.5/0.08 160/- --- Plan 6.3/0.16 160/- --- Plan 10/0.22 160/- --- Plan 40/0.65 160/0.17 Objectives
- Underneath the x-y positionable Object Table a condenser with a 1.3 optical lens is present.
- Comes with lamphouse with a 6V 15W Bulb and bluefilter.
- Comes with matching Transformer.
- Underneath the binocular Head an Optovar Magnifier is present.

For around 500$

My questions: Is it worth the price? Should I jump on the offer ?
Is a Optovar Magnifier useful for a beginner ?
What does it mean that the Bulb comes with a Bluefilter ?

More info about me: I want to look at pond life and drop of sea waters (diatoms, tardigrades, things like this) to begin with.

Thanks in advance,

Glycolyse

[MicroBob]

Hi Enzo,
a Zeiss Standard is generally a good buy. The used market for parts is the biggest of all (in Europe) and the drive train is bullet proof.
The optical quality is among the best of all and you can find very special components for it.
If you buy one you will always be able to sell it on quickly for a good price.
On disadvantage: Zeiss Optics suffer to a greater percentage than others from delamination of glued lens elements. This can be difficult to detect for the newbie. In some cased it doesn't matter much, in other cases the part is a paper weight. But other manufacurers have other drawbacks of the same significance.

Plan objectives are an advantage, but not so much for plancton since the objects are mostly very 3-dimensional and not all in the same plane anyway.
Will you be able to check the microscope before buying, and do you buy from a trustworthy and knowledgable seller? it is a differnece whether you buy a nice microscope out of regular use or one that has been in a basement for 20 years and was rescued out of the scrap container.

Blue filter: Most bulbs produce a somewhat yellowish light, especially when dimmed. This can be corrected with the blue filter, that also stops harmful IR light.

Optovar: Not so useful in my eyes, but you could sell it for not so little money.

Do you have a plancton net or other means to concentrate plancton?

Bob

[Hobbyst46]

Anyways, I might have found a really good offer. Here are the specs (it's a Zeiss binocular by the way):
- Comes with a pair of Carl Zeiss KPL 8x Oculars.
- Plan 2.5/0.08 160/- --- Plan 6.3/0.16 160/- --- Plan 10/0.22 160/- --- Plan 40/0.65 160/0.17 Objectives
- Underneath the x-y positionable Object Table a condenser with a 1.3 optical lens is present.
- Comes with lamphouse with a 6V 15W Bulb and bluefilter.
- Comes with matching Transformer.
- Underneath the binocular Head an Optovar Magnifier is present.

For around 500$

My questions: Is it worth the price? Should I jump on the offer ?
Is a Optovar Magnifier useful for a beginner ?
What does it mean that the Bulb comes with a Bluefilter ?

The blue filter serves to optimize the color temperature of what you see for photography.
An Optovar is valuable, especially for upgrading, like addition of polarizer filters, and when you add phase contrast accessories.
The lamphouse+bulb is just sufficient for basic work, do inquire the seller if it works OK. These are very old illuminators.
These objectives are Planachromats, they are quite good for brightfield at moderate magnification. Do inquire the seller if they are free of fungus and delamination - the latter can sometimes be seen only by looking at the back focal plae with the eyepiece removed.
The condenser is probably for brightfield only. Darkfield is said to be achievable with the aid of opaque circles in the filter carrier - I tried many times to do it but failed.
The 8X eyepieces are usable but very inconvenient to use IMO, if they are not wide field. Do inquire about their condition, lamination might be there.
Also, inquire about the mechanics - performance of the condenser rack and focusing mechanism.
Inquire about the field aperture ring, can it be rotated smoothely and easily. If not, repair may be somewhat difficult.
That the scope is binocular rather than trinocular is a short-coming, if you intend to install a camera.
Provided that everything is functionally flawless, my feeling is that it is slightly overpriced, but I may be wrong.
If possible, post a photo of the microscope, for us to know which model it is.
Good luck!

[Glycolyse]

Hi Bob,

Will you be able to check the microscope before buying, and do you buy from a trustworthy and knowledgable seller?

I am not able to check the microscope before buying it. Now, it is a "100% positive feedback" seller, with over 8000 green stars. Ebay claims "Shop with confidence, Get the item you ordered or get your money back. Also, the seller wrote: "If an item is broken or the optics are not as described as written in my auction. Just send me an email about this matter and you can ship that item back to me. When it has arrived I will give full refund (shippingcosts back to me included)."

Do you have a plancton net or other means to concentrate plancton?

Not yet, but I am aware of it. I will wait to get my first microscope before being it, with slides etc.

Glycolyse

[Glycolyse]

Hi Hobbyst,

If possible, post a photo of the microscope, for us to know which model it is

Hope this will help you. I eventually can post more photos of it.

Thanks,

Glycolyse

[MicroBob]

Hi Enzo,
this is an old Standard Junior course microscope with a kitchen oven lamp.
They are very nice and high quality but not especially valuable since there are so many used ones around and they are somewhat limited. When you would sell it on german ebay you wouldn't get more than 250€, but his is different from country to country. The very simple lamp really limits the microscope in itsuse and it is difficult to upgrade it properly. So I would not take this microscope at this price but look for something else.
For plancton you don't need a very special microscope and there are many on the market that would fulfil your needs, so no need to take the first one.
The general direction of your search is correct - look for a good used mircoscope of a quality manufacturer.

You might also register in the german mikroskopie-forum.de and look into the used market there. You can buy nice instruments from reputable sellers there.

Bob

[wstenberg]

Enzo,
I agree with he previous comments. This is a nice microscope. I have used many like this. The modular Zeiss system allows you to used accessories and upgraded features. There is a good supply of parts, and many parts from newer microscopes will work just fine on this. It is easy to add a trinocular later to use with photography.

I would be happy to use such a microscope, but might be a bit overpriced. I agree that the light source can be a problem. It puts a lot of heat right at your hands. Also the bulbs always seem to burn out unpredictably, and the cords get old and frayed. I might consider an LED upgrade to the light, but that is an additional expense.

Good luck with your search.

[75RR]

That looks like the Zeiss Standard Junior. My very first microscope :) Since sold but I have very good memories of it.
It is very well made but suffers from the drawback of most student microscopes - limited upgradability, particularly regarding the condenser.
If it were half the price I would recommend it as a first microscope but not at €500

If you wish to buy Zeiss go for a GFL or one of the white standards.

Feel free to post images here before you buy.
Ideally of course you will be able to try out a microscope first, but with the cost of travel that is not always possible.

[Glycolyse]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your posts. I will definitely search for something else. I will post a comment when I find something "interesting" to my eyes.

Glycolyse

[MicroBob]

One general problem with the Zeiss Standard Junior is the optical design of the condenser: It is designed to work with mirror and a microscope lamp ca. 250mm away. When used with the oven lamp or a small LED light directly on the base the condenser can't offer ist full n.a.. This can be overcome by using a Leitz or PZO condenser with the same mount.

Bob

[Glycolyse]

Hi everyone,

I found a "Zeiss Standard" microscope, unfortunately the shipping is from the US, while I live in France (64$ for shipping).

Anyways, here are some photos of the microscope:







There is rust on the 2nd photo, I am a bit worried about this.

The offer comes with the following message from the seller:

The item for sale is a nice Zeiss Standard microscope guaranteed to be complete and ready for immediate use in research, laboratory, or classroom applications. This is not the average Zeiss floating around out there. It has a five-place nosepiece containing five (5) authentic Zeiss plan objectives (i.e. flat-field or planachromatic), as shown in the pictures. The specifications of the individual lenses are as follows:

Plan 2.5X/0.08,
Plan 10X/0.22,
Plan 16X/0.35,
Plan 40X/0.65, and
Plan 100X/1.25 oil.

The binocular head is in good condition. It was made according to the older, but more durable, design used by Zeiss before the Siedentopf became the norm. In this design, the tube length is changed whenever the Interpupillary distance is modified. In order to maintain the correct (160mm) tube length, there are adjustable collars on each eyepiece tube. The proper tube length can be obtained by matching the scale on the adjustable collar to the value shown by the Interpupillary distance measuring scale in between the eyepiece tubes. When all three match, a small modification of focus can be made by turning one of the adjustable collars to compensate for any focal difference between the user's right and left eye. Two 10X Zeiss Kpl (compensating plano) eyepieces are included with the microscope, because compensating plano eyepieces are required to get the full performance from the flat-field objectives. Optically, both eyepiece lenses are in in good condition, though the finish of the mount shows minor of cosmetic wear. The head itself is affixed to a circular dovetail mount, so it can be positioned anywhere within 360 degrees horizontally. The substage condenser is fully focusable and is capable of 1.3 n.a. when the iris diaphragm is wide open, and the top of the condenser is oiled. When low-power objectives are in use, the top element can be flipped out of the way so that the field of view can be completely filled with light. Mounted beneath the condenser, there is a swing-out carrier for auxiliary lenses and filters, and it contains a filter for dark field illumination. The stage is an authentic Zeiss product and shows neither excessive wear nor any other problem. The mechanical stage has controls which move smoothly and easily, serving well to hold and reposition a specimen. The slide clip holds specimens with adequate force, but is easy to control in order to avoid chipping the corners of glass slides. The illuminator and it's attendant electronics are located in the base and are controlled by a single knob. The original halogen bulb has been replaced by an LED which, for a given amount of light, runs much cooler than a halogen bulb. In addition, the LED that is now installed is also brighter, and far longer lasting. Moreover, the light that it gives off is truly white and doesn't change color significantly as you change the intensity. Best of all, you don't have to pay $150 extra for a conversion kit. The stand has a socket so that the power cord can be plugged in to the base of the microscope. Yes, the power cord is included, but it is the same as millions of computer cables. Therefore, if it ever needs to be replaced, there should be no problem finding another one. In the base, a field diaphragm is also present. It can be used to prevent extraneous light from degrading the image, and it is in good working order. The coarse and fine focus are the usual design for these microscopes and likewise work very well. As with the optics and mechanics, this microscope is likewise in excellent cosmetic condition with very few flaws in the original finish. To evaluate the cosmetic condition further, please take a close look at the photographs.

For around 600$

Glycolyse

[Hobbyst46]

Hello,
The photo of the Zeiss junior shows that this is in nice cosmetic condition. I can add more comments:

1. the objective turret is not interchangeable (minor drawback)
2. there is no Kohler illumination (I suspected, then verified with the Zeiss reference documents), and there is no field aperture. IMHO - a major drawback.
3. the optovar - a major plus, but only when you add phase contrast and/or polarizer filter (for very simple polarized light experiments). it is possible though to sell the optovar separately for good money - they are wanted on the market.
4. the X-Y stage and slide mechanical movement controls are not ergonomic: the knobs are situated at the height of the specimen, and only on one side of the stage (major drawback).
5. the focusing mechanism is simpler than that of the other Standard models, and the condenser rack is different - this is what the Zeiss literature declares (these are either minor drawbacks or not, but not on the plus side).
6. for this model, upgrading by adding illumination modes (phase, DIC) will be time-consuming and very expensive.
7. as mentioned above, the eyepieces are not wonderful, especially for eyeglass wearers. the eyepoint is only 7mm high and the field of view is small. not for prolonged microscopy sessions.

On the whole, I would not "jump" at it, not at this price.

[Glycolyse]

Hi Hobbyst,

About the Zeiss Standard Junior, you confirm what others said on it. I appreciate your knowledge and your sincerity.

Thanks,

Glycolyse

[Hobbyst46]

About the Standard scope at around 600 USD:
There are experts on these models so I will just mention:
My previous comment about the 8X eyepieces of the Junior also holds for these 10X eyepieces on the Standard
The LED conversion is a late custom-made or DIY job, you might inquire about the color temperature and wattage of the LED
The field aperture has been tempered with - you might inquire whether it rotates smoothly - very important for Kohler illumination
I would not be too worried about the corrosion marks on the condenser, the condenser might be still usable - what counts if the iris shutter in it, you might inquire about it since repair is not easy.

[Hobbyst46]

And congratulations for studying marine biology near the biologically rich side of the Mediterranean Sea.

BTW - why not post your wish on the "Suppliers, buying and selling" of this forum. There are many good scopes from other makes than Zeiss.

[Glycolyse]

Hi Hobbyst,

Thank you, the Mediterranean Sea is a great place, it also needs solid conservation efforts, in terms of fishery and tourism.

There are many good scopes from other makes than Zeiss

I am working on it.

I found a "New Olympus CX22 Binocular" at 945$ (I included shipping in the price).

Some photos of the microscope:







The seller also said: This item was bought for a college student. But run out of money before he was able to use this microscope. The student stop going to college and join the Army so when he gets out the Army will pay for his college. Everything in the photo is included if it's not in the photo is not included. 4X, 10X, 40X, 10X EYEPIECES.

The seller has 100% positive feedback (1100 Red Star), and Ebay's "Shop with Confidence: Top Rated Plus, Ebay Money Back Guaranteed"

What do you think of it ?

Glycolyse

[photomicro]

Hi Hobbyst,

Thank you, the Mediterranean Sea is a great place, it also needs solid conservation efforts, in terms of fishery and tourism.

There are many good scopes from other makes than Zeiss

I am working on it.

I found a "New Olympus CX22 Binocular" at 945$ (I included shipping in the price).



The seller also said: This item was bought for a college student. But run out of money before he was able to use this microscope. The student stop going to college and join the Army so when he gets out the Army will pay for his college. Everything in the photo is included if it's not in the photo is not included. 4X, 10X, 40X, 10X EYEPIECES.

The seller has 100% positive feedback (1100 Red Star), and Ebay's "Shop with Confidence: Top Rated Plus, Ebay Money Back Guaranteed"

What do you think of it ?

Glycolyse

I think this is the same...but cheaper. Also, bear in mind this takes Infinity objectives, so only Olympus ones will work properly with it.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Olympus-CX22 ... :rk:7:pf:0

[Hobbyst46]

I think this is the same...but cheaper.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Olympus-CX22 ... :rk:7:pf:0

This cheaper scope has four planachro objectives. The one posted by the OP includes a phase contrast (UIS2) 40X objective (that one is very expensive and excellent) and I think the scope includes a phase contrast condenser. Whether these are worth the 300BP price difference - nominally yes, since they are all in mint or nearly new condition.
Also, the cheaper scope is seemingly being sold in the UK only.

[75RR]

I think you need to take a deep breath and count to 100.

There is no better way to waste money by buying the wrong microscope than to rush.

Used microscopes are better value for money but you need to take your time and choose wisely.

Forget great bargains - most people have a story about how they got this great deal - take that with a pinch of salt.

Post the link to the microscope you are thinking of buying so that we can see all the photos and have a look at who is selling it.

Decide on a budget and try to keep to it.

Decide if you want to take photos (that effectively means a trinocular head) and whether you want to upgrade at some point and how far.

Check prices of upgrades and availability.

Remind yourself that you don't really need to buy a microscope today nor tomorrow nor in fact next week.

There are several thing wrong with the second microscope you posted, starting with the price.

Third microscope is infinity. Find out the cost of that model new. Download the manual. Find the cost of a trinocular head and of the objectives you will need if you decide say to get Phase illumination.


Remember that your goal is a microscope that will suit your needs at a fair price.

[Glycolyse]

Hi everyone,

As Hobbyst said, the microscope which photomicro found is for UK-buyer only.

Decide on a budget and try to keep to it.

Decide if you want to take photos (that effectively means a trinocular head) and whether you want to upgrade at some point and how far.

I will be clear on my intentions. My main goal is to mainly observe pond life, and sea water. Observing both animal and vegetal cells is also a thing I'm considering. I am not afraid of preparing slides (staining, etc.), it takes skill and knowledge, which will come in the long run. Also, I appreciate photography. Having said that, a trinocular head should be on the top-priority.
Now, achromatic, planachromatic objectives, it depends. I will need your advices on them. But I guess plan achromatic objectives are better for photography, but I read that it also depends on the observed subject. About the light, I read that Halogen lights can burn protists, so a LED light should be better ?
My budget is around 1 000e max.

Post the link to the microscope you are thinking of buying so that we can see all the photos and have a look at who is selling it.

Carl Zeiss Standart: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Carl-Zeiss-mic ... 0&LH_RPA=1

Olympus CX22: https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OLYMPUS-CX ... 0&LH_RPA=1

[Hobbyst46]

Now that the purpose is well defined, I believe that a good used trinocular scope with Kohler illumination, dark field and phase contrast is within your budget.
Perhaps finite optics and not infinity, but look at the wonderful results obtained with 160mm optics, on this forum and others. Halogen can be fine and not overly warming the stage, it depends on the details of the scope and illuminator. Halogen excels for photography.
Actually, even a new Chinese microscope that has the above features might be within your budget, although the opinion on such scopes is divided.
I would rather buy a used scope from a well known quality maker, but try and get as complete system as possible. Accessories and parts are rather costlier when bought separately.

For what you want, I think that a set of good 4x (or 6x)-10X-20X-40X is the default. 60-100X are less useful, especially when you observe moving objects.
Many features of the microscope are the results of trade-off, like resolution comes at the expense of depth of field, etc.
Phase contrast is most important for viewing low contrast objects, such as diatoms and animal cells. It is not important for plant cells, algae, stained objects. For marine objects, DIC yields the most beautiful pictures, as shown on this forum by member 75RR for example, and by others. Alas, DIC is so expensive and not always available for old microscopes.

[75RR]

Agree that Phase is very useful for transparent protists.

Here is an option that you may want to get some feedback on from other members: Leitz Laborlux S Binocular (Price £354.17 + vat) in the UK

http://www.usedmicroscopes.co.uk/leitz.html

not sure of the cost to get Phase for it - sure someone can tell you.

and for a trinocular head from the USA: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leitz-Trinoc ... 0008.m2219

User manual: http://earth2geologists.net/Microscopes ... ctions.pdf

This is what it looks like:

[photomicro]

As ever, you are getting some good advice here.

One of the best bits is not to act in haste. It is not like computers and most of the modern technology, in that there is never a good time to buy, but rather that you will hope to develop with your microscope. Thus being able to get things for it, and add features is something to consider at the start. Also, don't be tempted into thinking you have to grab something before it sells. You are obviously looking at ebay, and should see that there are dozens every week.

I get asked for advice a lot about microscopes. Sometimes, I get the impression someone wants to run before they can walk, or they want to get a 'dream machine' before they have even used a basic one. Therefore sometimes it is worth someone getting just a reasonable one to find out if it is for them. Sounds like you have a fair idea, but no need to rush.

I knew that Olympus in the UK was not available overseas, but wanted to highlight there were other examples of this model. Personally, I would be wary of Infinity, the parts to upgrade are likely to be expensive.

You will know that postal charges to France are rather high. I have a friend there (Le Dorat) who often can't get goods sent to him, and has them sent here (UK) for re-sending. Are there not many suitable instruments for sale in France?

Keep looking, and keep listening, and you will obtain an instrument that is suitable for your needs, and give you years of use.

[Hobbyst46]

I totally agree with photomicro's recommendation above. 1000Eu is a lot of money (for me at least). But it helps to see examples, so here is one:
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Leitz-Wetzlar-O ... :rk:2:pf:0

Not a bargain, I think, higher by about 10% than your budget, but I am almost sure it has phase contrast, and is trinocular. Had I considered it, I would still inquire the seller in detail about all optical and mechanical functions, especially since the illuminator apparently lacks the transformer.

Another example:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NIKON-Labophot ... SwP8db7KSr
This one seemingly only lacks low magnification objectives.
inquire the seller in detail... etc (as above).

[MicroBob]

With a budget of 1000€ you can expect to buy a great microscope. A budget of this size also needs more planning to be used right.
There are some used microscope dealers in Europe that would ship to France - this is an option too.

Here a first microscope was sought and found recently: For sure an interesting read for you:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6728

Bob

[Glycolyse]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for you replies. I take every advice into consideration.

I am currently looking for good offers on different websites (Ebay, and others quoted above). I will post another message when I will find something interesting.

Glycolyse

[Glycolyse]

Hi everyone,

After a few days, I struggled to find good offers on different websites, especially for trinoculars. A few caught my eyes, so I'll post them one per one.

What do you think about this Nikon Alphaphot 2 ? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nikon-Alphapho ... rk:67:pf:0

- No trinocular head
- Phase contrast, and "Ph" objectives, and I think there are made for Phase contrast ?

What do you think about this Nikon Labophot ? https://www.ebay.com/itm/NIKON-Labophot ... SwP8db7KSr

- Phase contrast, but only 2 objectives (and I won't use the x100 objective, so only 1 useable).
- Trinocular ? No idea on this.

What do you think about this Olympus CHA ? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Olympus-CHA- ... rk:43:pf:0

- Trinocular
- No phase contrast
- 4x, 10x Planachro & 40x Planchro objectives

What do you think about this Leitz Ortholux II from Mr.Immel ? " Leitz Ortholux II (Gebrauchsspuren), Trinokulartubus mit Periplan GF 10x Okularen, 5-fach Objektivrevolver mit 4x (nur Übersichtsokular), 10x, 25x 40x und 100xOil Phaco-Achromat-Objektiven, Kreuztisch mit tiefliegenden Koaxialtrieben rechts, höhenverstellbarer Phasenkontrastrevolverkondensor mit einklappbarer Frontlinse n.A. 0,9 (Ph1,2 und 3 Dunkelfeld und Iris), Leuchtfeldblende mit 6V15W Beleuchtung und stufenlos regelbarem Trafo " 1200,00 €

I highlighted what was interesting. Photos of the Leitz Ortholux II:





My guess is that the Leitz Ortholux II is the best that comes out. I need your opinions on those microscopes.

Thanks a lot,

Glycolyse

[PeteM]

I'd be inclined to look for a microscope with a trinocular head.

[Hobbyst46]

About the Labophot, I would inquire the seller :
1. Is the focusing mechanism - both coarse and fine focus controls - in smooth working condition.
2. Is the lamp house in good condition, without mechanical damage and a sound connection to the frame. On the similarly built Optiphot, the mechanical interface between the lamphouse and the frame could be engineered better.

The Leitz appears to be a nice option, except for the price...

[photomicro]

The Alphaphot seems expensive for what was a student stand, and no trino head.

The Labophot is better, but only has x40 and x100 lenses.

(not an Optiphot BTW)

I would keep looking.