Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

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JGardner
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Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#1 Post by JGardner » Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:59 pm

Can anyone tell me what model the last microscope on this page is? Thanks.

http://www.usedmicroscopes.co.uk/zeiss.html

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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#2 Post by Scarodactyl » Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:13 pm

I had a base (missing the head) like this one, probably the same model? The base was just labeled "montagesatz T-UL" or something like that. It's a finite scope anyway with 160 objectives.

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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#3 Post by JGardner » Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:32 pm

Is it some variant of the "Standard"?

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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#4 Post by Scarodactyl » Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:39 pm

I found it difficult to find information on it (though I was a lot less savvy at the time). I ended up selling it because I couldn't even figure out which head might go on it.
So hopefully one of the actual zeiss experts here can enlighten us, because I've been wondering the same thing for some time now.

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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#5 Post by Larry060 » Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:44 pm

I'm not a Zeiss expert by any means but it looks a lot like mine, which I bought a few weeks ago. They said mine was a Zeiss Standard 15 and the one you pointed to looks very much like it, except mine has a piece between the head and objectives. Here is the discussion:
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=8702

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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#6 Post by Hobbyst46 » Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:55 pm

Larry060 wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:44 pm
I'm not a Zeiss expert by any means but it looks a lot like mine, which I bought a few weeks ago. They said mine was a Zeiss Standard 15 and the one you pointed to looks very much like it, except mine has a piece between the head and objectives. Here is the discussion:
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=8702
Larry, I think the linked post concluded that your microscope is a Zeiss Standard 16.
Zeiss Standard GFL+Canon EOS-M10, Olympus VMZ stereo

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75RR
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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#7 Post by 75RR » Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:59 pm

The Standards are modular microscopes, so even though that looks like a Standard 16 (fixed 5 objective nosepiece), configured for brightfield, you can reconfigure it pretty much as you wish with time and patience.

The best of the standards is of course the Standard WL, it is the little brother of the Universal and the Photomicroscope. Best of both worlds.
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#8 Post by Larry060 » Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:14 am

Yes, 16 Hobbyst. What are the differences? What does a Zeiss Standard 1 look like and how far do the numbers go?

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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#9 Post by 75RR » Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:25 am

What are the differences? What does a Zeiss Standard 1 look like and how far do the numbers go?
Zeiss had a rather eclectic numbering system for the Standards.

For simplicity’s sake it is easier to focus on the nosepieces and use 4 model designators

4 place fixed nosepiece = Standard 14

5 place fixed nosepiece = Standard 16

Removable nosepiece (usually 5 place though can be 4 or even 7) = Standard 18

and the Standard WL, which has a removable nosepiece and also combines elements of the Large Universals and Photomicroscopes.


As part of a Modular System everything else can be changed/swopped, which effectively means that many Standards have been modified from their original configuration,

making the factory designations moot in many cases.


We should also mention the Standard Junior and the Standard GFL

The Standard GFL, like the 18 and the WL has a removable nosepiece.

The Standard Junior is a student microscope and therefore not truly part of the Standard Modular family.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5991

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dpdrvxmaifz5j ... d.pdf?dl=0
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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#10 Post by JGardner » Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:01 pm

Thanks 75RR, that was helpful.

I notice that the Standards in that document you linked to have plastic focusing knobs—were there earlier versions of the Standard that had all-metal focusing knobs, similar to the earlier generations of the Universal?

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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#11 Post by 75RR » Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:15 pm

Of the Standards only the Junior, GFL and WL had metal course and fine focus dials. The rest of the Standards (which are newer models) had plastic dials from their inception.

Some info on the Standard WL:

http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/art ... iss-WL.pdf
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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#12 Post by wstenberg » Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:32 pm

That's a Zeiss KF2. It's a variation of the Standard series, similar to the junior model. They have an internal illuminator. The supplied binocular has mirrors instead of prisms, so it's lighter and cheaper. Many parts are interchangeable with the bigger Standards, the obvious exception being no options for illuminator, and no interchangeable turrets. Also the base is small and light, so not as stable for tall, heavy accessories (like a 4x5 inch film camera!).
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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#13 Post by JGardner » Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:56 pm

75RR wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:15 pm
Some info on the Standard WL:
Very interesting. Thanks. It’s tempting to do something similar to that guide and put together a nice Standard WL. It’s only a matter of finding components in excellent condition. Unfortunately, my track record in doing that on eBay has been dismal. :oops:

Are there any reliable sources for Zeiss components other than eBay?

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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#14 Post by wstenberg » Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:36 pm

The Standard WL is a great research grade microscope. It has parts interchangeable with the other Standards, as well as the Universals.

You can send me a PM for sources.
William
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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#15 Post by MicroBob » Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:02 pm

75RR wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:25 am
We should also mention the Standard Junior and the Standard GFL

The Standard GFL, like the 18 and the WL has a removable nosepiece.

The Standard Junior is a student microscope and therefore not truly part of the Standard Modular family.
Some GFLs had a removable nosepiece, most had it not from what I saw in Germany. This may depend on the market they were sold at. The per war Zeiss LGs all had exchangeable nosepieces. The first GFLs were Zeiss-Winkel GFLs. In my experience the nosepieces are not too enduring on these. Generally there are two designs of stage bearings in GFLs: Dovetail ways and roller bearings (The latter with a chromed strip at the sides. The fine focus on the GFLs are just average in durability. On a much used instrument they can strip teeth. Generally the GFL's focus drive is not as extraordinally bullet proof as that from the later Standard RA to 18.

The Junior is a very finely mae instrument and more modern in design than the GFL with both focus movements actuating the stage. The main difference is below the stage: Sleeve mount for the condenser and no integrated lamp. The tubes and objectives are exchangeable with the Standard line. There wera also different stage bearing versions here.
The Junior can be equipped with dark field, phase contrast, DIC, fluorescence and pol, so it is actually quite versatile.

The KF 2 is a nice and light instrument but on most examples the tube is fixed and not interchangeable with the standard line. The special condenser/light unit gives exceptionally good oblique lighting when decentered. Compared to the Junior it is less versatile.

Bob

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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#16 Post by 75RR » Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:40 pm

The main difference is below the stage: Sleeve mount for the condenser and no integrated lamp. The tubes and objectives are exchangeable with the Standard line.
I thought the sleeve mounted condenser fitting precluded the use of the Standard condensers, as shown in the Zeiss Optical Systems brochure, and therefore Phase and DIC
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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#17 Post by MicroBob » Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:38 pm

75RR wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:40 pm
I thought the sleeve mounted condenser fitting precluded the use of the Standard condensers
Of cause the Standards condensers with the ring dovetail can't be used. As far as I know there was a (rare) phase condenser for the Junior. The sleeve diameter is a very common one and with adapter rings many condensers of other brands can be fitted. The PZO stuff fits directly so DIC and variable phase are available. On the top side the Juniorcan be equipped with an optovar and/or a trino tube so the little Junior becomes quite an advanced microscope. It is quite durable, more so than the GFL in my experience, but it can't fully compete with the later Standards with the steel ball planetary gear with overload protection (picture enclosed).
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Zeiss Standard RA Kugel-Planetengetriebe.jpg
Zeiss Standard RA Kugel-Planetengetriebe.jpg (143.11 KiB) Viewed 6373 times

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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#18 Post by Larry060 » Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:51 pm

With all these choices which standard is the best to get for later upgrades, if money is no object?

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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#19 Post by 75RR » Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:58 pm

Some GFLs had a removable nosepiece, most had it not from what I saw in Germany.
A search through Ebay confirms (to my surprise) that some GFL's don't have a removable nosepiece.

Certainly something to look out for when considering purchasing one.

reZeiss Junior:
The sleeve diameter is a very common one and with adapter rings many condensers of other brands can be fitted.
Don't think that counts in terms of how well the Standard Junior fits into the Zeiss Standard Modular family.



This is what a removable nosepiece on the Zeiss Standards looks like:
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Removable nosepiece.png
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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#20 Post by MicroBob » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:04 pm

Larry060 wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:51 pm
With all these choices which standard is the best to get for later upgrades, if money is no object?
Zeiss Universal, and cheaper than a WL.

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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#21 Post by MicroBob » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:06 pm

75RR wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:58 pm
Don't think that counts in terms of how well the Standard Junior fits into the Zeiss Standard Modular family.
It shows the difference between student microscopes and the Junior.

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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#22 Post by Hobbyst46 » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:08 pm

MicroBob wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:02 pm
...Some GFLs had a removable nosepiece, most had it not from what I saw in Germany.
I have one GFL with a removable 5-position nosepiece and one GFL with a fixed 4-position nosepiece. They both rotate smoothly (for years after lubricating with a tiny drop of sewing-machine oil).
The removable nosepiece is the same as for the Standard WL and differs from that of the Universal.
...In my experience the nosepieces are not too enduring on these.
The weak point seems to be the locking thumbscrew on the nosepiece, the one that fixes the dovetail of the nosepiece on the head. It is a small insane combination of screws and parts - as if made for a wristwatch, not a microscope. Over engineering IMO. Edit: it is visible in the nosepiece photo posted above by 75RR. The lower one of the two front-pointing screws.
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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#23 Post by Larry060 » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:15 pm

MicroBob wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:04 pm
Larry060 wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:51 pm
With all these choices which standard is the best to get for later upgrades, if money is no object?
Zeiss Universal, and cheaper than a WL.
I searched EBay for Zeiss Universal and they seem to be very large, which I don't really want. I searched EBay for Zeiss WL and couldn't find any. They have pieces for a WL but no actual WL microscopes. What does a WL look like? Is it smaller than a Universal?

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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#24 Post by 75RR » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:25 pm

What does a WL look like? Is it smaller than a Universal?
The modern version of the Zeiss WL is now made of aluminum and is white/beige (It is just a bit bigger than the 14, 16 and 18)

From left to right: Zeiss Standard Junior, Zeiss Standard GFL, Zeiss WL and Zeiss Universal
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Black Zeiss.jpg
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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#25 Post by MicroBob » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:30 pm

Hobbyst46 wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:08 pm
The weak point seems to be the locking thumbscrew on the nosepiece, the one that fixes the dovetail of the nosepiece on the head.
On my Zeiss - Winkel GFLs the locking mechanism of the objective positions of the nosepiece is the problem. I don't have a Standard with removable nosepiece so I can't comment on this.

The Phomi and Universal are big but still just take up one microscope standing area. They are just unwieldy to move. In practice much less of a problem than I thought.

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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#26 Post by JGardner » Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:50 pm

Are there any advantages to the black standards/universals over the grey versions? I don't see many black examples show up on eBay so I assume they're much rarer than the greys. Since they're older, are there any age-related issues to be wary of?

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Re: Zeiss Experts: What Model is This?

#27 Post by wstenberg » Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:55 am

The Standard WL come up on eBay often enough. There was a nice one just a few weeks back. Here's a few photos of my Standard WLs. Maybe just to show that they can be configured in a multitude of ways, from simple to complicated. The black is probably as good as the gray. Either is fine.
Attachments
IMG_1102.JPG
IMG_1102.JPG (125.06 KiB) Viewed 6258 times
IMG_1103.JPG
IMG_1103.JPG (94.34 KiB) Viewed 6258 times
William
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Zeiss Standard WL with POL
Zeiss Axiomat
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