Questions about Reichert 420

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TommyGunn
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Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:23 pm

Questions about Reichert 420

#1 Post by TommyGunn » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:48 am

Looking to find out are there any slide out filter holders for the condensers? I am looking to add rheinburg filters normally I just drop them in a side circle tray on the iris on a condenser how can I do that with the 420 setup? Also how do you setup darkfield on this scope? Are there people that specialize on the Reichert scopes?


Thanks

Tommy

apochronaut
Posts: 3503
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 12:15 am

Re: Questions about Reichert 420

#2 Post by apochronaut » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:24 pm

That depends on which condenser you have. There were three possibilities. 1) a sealed unit wide angle 1.25 N.A. oil abbe aspheric cat.# 1970. This one does not have a filter slot. 2) a compound unit .90 N.A. achromat/aplanat cat.# 1201, threaded into a cat.# 1092 iris diaphragm housing. The 1092 iris diaphragm housing has a a filter slot in the base. 3) a compound unit 1.4 N.A. oil achromat/aplanat cat.# 1973, threaded into a cat.# 1092 iris diaphragm housing; same filter capacity as above.
Theoretically, it could also have a cat. # 1087 abbe aspheric threaded into the 1092 base as well or some other custom fitted condenser.

There is also a 3 gang filter cluster , just forward of the collimating lens pack. These were fitted at the factory with various filters, neutral densities, daylights etc. I have played around with placing various filters in there and varying offsets. That filter cluster holds many possibilities. The 3 carousels are arranged so that they always overlap but each has an open port , so that the operator can choose 0,1, 2, or 3 filter factors by selecting the number of open ports. They can also be offset against each other.

There is a dedicated cat.# 1096 toric DF oil condenser for the series 400 microscopes. This works well from 100X , down to 20X. If you are going to pursue higher resolution DF, you will need an iris equipped 100X objective. There were two of them, a 1.25 N.A. planachro and a 1.30 N.A. planfluor. I have never seen either of them on the used market. They are probably all still in service.

Another option is to find a Reichert Austria objective. There are more of them because all of the 100X for the infinity corrected systems of the Austrian microscopes from the 70's and 80's had iris diaphragms. There may have been some plain ones made later for the Diavar II or biological Poly but all I have seen have integrated iris diaphragms.
You will see 100X 1.25 plan both glycerin and oil , some are also marked IK but that doesn't matter. There are also 100X 1.32 planapo. There are also 63X 1.0 , both Gycerin and oil and a 40X 1.0 planapo oil iris. There also may be some( should theoretically be based on the development of the optical series) 100X 1.30 planfluor apo with an integrated iris but I have never seen one.

It is also possible to make a diaphragm restrictor for the standard 100X 1.25 planachro, of which there are many. A bit tricky but possible in lieu of not finding an iris equipped one.
DF with those microscopes is a joy.

TommyGunn
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:23 pm

Re: Questions about Reichert 420

#3 Post by TommyGunn » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:32 pm

Thanks for your reply! Hmm I did attach a photo of my condenser I will try again it looks like it says 1.25 1970 so is that an oil condender? Do have to use oil with it? Some one else told the screw slots is for another lens for the 2.5x objective.
So from what I think you saying is the best condenser for me to try and find is the 1092 since I can make my own filters and use the filter slot. Like my rheinburg filters.

about the dark fields i rarely ever go to 40x mostly 10x 25x I film mostly live protist most cilia types.
I have never used an oil condenser. So no dry ones? I guess my goal is best clarity.

Thanks apo!

apochronaut
Posts: 3503
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 12:15 am

Re: Questions about Reichert 420

#4 Post by apochronaut » Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:33 pm

If your condenser is a 1970, then it is a wide field 1.25 oil immersion abbe aspheric. It is very well corrected to the periphery, much better than an abbe. Used without oil it is about .90 N.A.. Those do require an aux. swing in condenser for use with the 2.5X. There is the lens in the frame, a shouldered mounting screw, a washer; then on the other side, a cam stop and mounting screw. The cam is necessary to precisely center it. The lens has a quite small diameter in a large frame. The earlier version, used on the series 10/20 and 100 series abbe and abbe aspherics had a similar frame with a much larger diameter lens in it. One of those will work but you have to rack the condenser down , in order to fill the field with the 2.5X. Those aux. lenses separate from the condenser are hard to find.

There was no dry DF condenser to my knowledge but Leica made one for some of their early 90's scopes. I think the dovetail is the same, so one of those might be adaptable.

If you are doing mostly larger protists and 40X max. , just f.y.i. the 40X 1.0 oil planapo has remarkable resolution. You see them around sometimes. Not common but scarce, not rare. There is also a 50X .80 oil Neoplan......very nice objective , set at .80 just under the bar for the toric DF condenser. It was designed as a complement to the 100X w./ iris, so you could go back and forth and keep an oiled cover. The extra N.A. of the oil objectives does make a difference with DF, as does the ca free nature of the cardioid condenser. You also get phenomenal depth of focus with that condenser.

A DF stop with the #1201 condenser would work but there will be more ca than with the # 1096 toric. You have to look for the 1201 condenser. The iris body # 1092 that it will be mounted in will not likely be marked with the cat. #. Never seen one as such. The identical condenser was also used on the series 100 scopes, where wuite a few showed up. I don't think you can fill the field for the 2.5X objective with one of those but I could be wrong. I would have to test that. I've not used the .90 achromat with the 2.5X.

TommyGunn
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:23 pm

Re: Questions about Reichert 420n

#5 Post by TommyGunn » Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:01 pm

Ok thanks for the info I will give the 1970 with oil just to check it oil sounds messy the 2.5x I will probably use just to scout what’s on the drop of water before I put cover slip on.

As far as filters hold I did to try and make my own the hard part was findin the right size screw and length which I did find in my lucky magic box... I always find what I need in there. Then I designed a 32mm filter holder. And tested it out with my glass rheinburg filter I made it seem to work setting it up is not as quick as I want due to the fact that even tho it a swing out filter holder it’s being blocked by the fork that holds the condenser.. so I have to pull the entire condenser out in order to change filter.

I have attached what I made you can also see the rheinburg filter I made.

I think my fav objectives are 16x 20x 25x

Thanks apo I will prob have to read this post like 5 times look up terms but I got the most of it.

Oh are there any service manuals, documents or parts list for the 420?

Thanks

Tommy
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apochronaut
Posts: 3503
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 12:15 am

Re: Questions about Reichert 420

#6 Post by apochronaut » Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:38 pm

Nice filter/mask holder. It is similar to the original aux. lens frame, so you should be able to use it for that too, in order to fill the field for the 2.5X.
Can you not put a spacer under your swing out in order to clear the condenser fork? I put one on some time ago, and I recall needing to do that. It wasn't much....maybe mm and a half or two, just allowing it to clear. The condenser slides into the fork with the built in filter entry facing forward. It works best, if you put the pivot for the swing out in the forward hole and the stop( which you don't have installed) in the rear hole. As you face the microscope then, the swing out tray goes back on the right side to rest out of the way against the forward/right side of the stop and swings to the left into place against the left side of the stop. The original stop is an eccentric cam, located by a central screw. By rotating the cam on the screw, you can establish a precise alignment for the swing out , when in place.

Here is the Diastar Phase Contrast Manual. http://doclibrary.com/MSC167/DOC/Phase- ... al5043.pdf
Here is a Photostar manual, which covers the set up of the photo system and some other details of the Diastar. http://doclibrary.com/MSC167/DOC/PhotoS ... al0956.pdf
Here is the Diastar Parts Manual. http://doclibrary.com/MSC167/DOC/Diasta ... al0831.pdf

Here is the Microstar IV Brochure , which has most of it's basic features common to the Diastar. Sometimes there are aspects unmentioned in the Diastar literature that are of value.http://doclibrary.com/MSC167/DOC/Reiche ... re5922.pdf
Here is the Microstar IV Reference Manual. http://doclibrary.com/MSC167/DOC/MicroS ... al4354.pdf
Here is the Microstar IV and Diastar video camera adapter brochure. http://doclibrary.com/MSC167/DOC/Micros ... al4436.pdf
Here is the Microstar IV Parts Manual. http://doclibrary.com/MSC167/DOC/MicroS ... al4520.pdf

apochronaut
Posts: 3503
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 12:15 am

Re: Questions about Reichert 420

#7 Post by apochronaut » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:39 pm

I am curious about your objectives. There was a 20X .50 planachro made for the Diastar and two 25X ; a .45 plan and a .65 planapo. I have never seen a 16X. Can you provide some details on this objective?

TommyGunn
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:23 pm

Re: Questions about Reichert 420

#8 Post by TommyGunn » Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:16 am

First the objects were Zeiss finite lens they send to me as a gift for my son and I to test to see if it would work on my amscope 340b I was sent a plan apo 10x 16x plan 25x neuro as gifts because they liked our story of me and my son working on projects amd wanted to contribute something to help us. While the magnification work the resolution could prob work better if the rest of the lens were of better quality.
I will my story this week when I get aa moment or two.
Yes the washer thing would work It was the first thing I tried I need a longer screw tin order to do that which I don’t have.. I just received an AO. Mechanical stage that I ordered they said it would fit my 420 since I film protists I would have a hard time chasing them with a polarized stage that only rotates, well it fit... it the condenser does not agin properly it off like a quarter moon and does not go all the way up for oil. So now I am on the hunt..for a stage. Once I get this sorted I can try my dark field and oblique filters I made I made set from 5mm to 24mm stops.

Another question my polorized stage the round part can come easy with the thumb screws is there a mechanical stage that can be put on the same base?

Thanks

Tommy
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apochronaut
Posts: 3503
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 12:15 am

Re: Questions about Reichert 420

#9 Post by apochronaut » Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:38 pm

That's a nice group of Rheinberg filters and stops you have made. Very nice work.

Those Zeiss objectives are all very good objectives but if you look on the barrels they show a 160/0.17 specification on them. This means that they require a 160 mm tube length microscope in order for them to work properly. They would have possibly worked o.k. on your Amscope but not on a Diastar. They also require eyepieces that are designed to complement their optical peculiarities, so even if your Amscope was 160mm, the eyepieces would not have provided the needed corrections or lack of, whichever those Zeiss objectives required.
The Diastar requires optics that are specified as ∞/0.17. It has a telan lens in the bottom of it's head that is designed to convert the infinity beam to a convergent beam and the corrections are very close to neutral. The Zeiss objectives are not engineered to require those types of alterations to the image beam and the image suffers as a result. For your microscope to work properly, you need any Reichert infinity corrected objectives that are for the 45mm parfocal series. The shorter ones for the 34mm parfocal series do not work well since they require a more highly corrective telan lens. Certain series of 45mm parfocal Chinese objectives also work and correct properly on the Diastar but they do not have the resolution or contrast of the original objectives.

Here is a starter set of Reichert Neoplans that will improve your viewing tremendously: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Reichert-Jung- ... SwWnReVH6P

and a compatible set of Chinese objectives that will work too : https://www.ebay.com/itm/Compound-Micro ... ondition=3

TommyGunn
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:23 pm

Re: Questions about Reichert 420

#10 Post by TommyGunn » Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:47 pm

I have the whole Reichert plan infinity set when I was talking about 16x 25x on my amscope.

So is the neoplan that much better then the Reichert plans?

But still my main issue now is the stage my is the polarized round one And condenser fits fine on this.
I need a mechanic stage that fits the 420 or else the 420 will not work for me. photos attached
I got a AO stage from eBay and the guy said it would fit the 420 which it did but the condenser does not align properly it off by a quarter moon 🌙 and the 1970 condenser does not go all the way up to the stage in case I wanted to try oil immersion.

Is there mechanical stage top that can be mounted like the round polarized stage I already have Like a hot swap?

Oh and the oblique filters the triangular thing on the bottom is a 1 finger dial so without taking you eye off the scope and fiddling around to get the perfect shadow cast you can dial it with one finger to the exact angle you want.

Thanks apo for your help you are wealth of knowledge! Oh and thanks for the links to manuals.
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apochronaut
Posts: 3503
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 12:15 am

Re: Questions about Reichert 420

#11 Post by apochronaut » Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:24 pm

Sorry, I misunderstood. The Zeiss objectives then, are not properly corrected for the Amscope eyepieces. There are others more knowledgeable about Zeiss who can advise you regarding what eyepieces you should look for to match the Zeiss objectives. Since you have planapo and plan achromats; you may need two sets. The planapos may need Kompensating eyepieces.

No , the Neoplans are not generally better than the planachros. They were more of a budget line of objectives. I only linked you to them because it was the only complete set I found on ebay. I was mistakenly under the impression you were using the Zeiss objectives in the Diastar.

Regarding the stage. I would happily swap you for the circular stage. I have a nice 420 stage here. It would fit right in. The swap takes less than 5 min.
The stage you were sold is for the AO series 100....not a match.

I will P.M. you.

kojiman
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:05 pm

Re: Questions about Reichert 420n

#12 Post by kojiman » Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:37 pm

TommyGunn wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:01 pm
Ok thanks for the info I will give the 1970 with oil just to check it oil sounds messy the 2.5x I will probably use just to scout what’s on the drop of water before I put cover slip on.

As far as filters hold I did to try and make my own the hard part was findin the right size screw and length which I did find in my lucky magic box... I always find what I need in there. Then I designed a 32mm filter holder. And tested it out with my glass rheinburg filter I made it seem to work setting it up is not as quick as I want due to the fact that even tho it a swing out filter holder it’s being blocked by the fork that holds the condenser.. so I have to pull the entire condenser out in order to change filter.

I have attached what I made you can also see the rheinburg filter I made.

I think my fav objectives are 16x 20x 25x

Thanks apo I will prob have to read this post like 5 times look up terms but I got the most of it.

Oh are there any service manuals, documents or parts list for the 420?

Thanks

Tommy
Hey Tommy,

Do you have the design files for your 3d printed filter holder / filters?

I just got a reichert 420 with the 1970, and have a friend with a 3D printer, so it would be awesome to get filter holder to do some darkfield stuff :)

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