Help with disassembly and repair of zeiss phase condenser

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DrPhoxinus
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Help with disassembly and repair of zeiss phase condenser

#1 Post by DrPhoxinus » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:36 pm

My phase condenser on my old zeiss hadn't been used in over decade so the grease hardened. the ball bearing is off the spring because it does not rotate with a click, I tried to disassemby it but could not be the cover off with just the top screw.

I bought another on ebay that is in better physical shape fpr parts but some of the annuli are mssing or delaminated Here is part of the ebay description

Aplanatic brightfield microscope rotary phase contrast condenser with 1.4 0.32 green tinted lens.

This Carl Zeiss phase condenser offers Ph2, Ph3, and J (brightfield) ports as well as a 3 empty ports and a clear glass D (darkfield) port.

The black phase ring on the darkfield port has lifted off (delaminated) leaving just a clear piece of glass.

So how much do I have to unscrew?

How do you remove an annulus?

It seems that the annulus is painted glass. Has anyone repaired the paint?

Has anyone ever added an annulus to one of these condensers? Do you need a metal ring or can you just use an empty port?

What are the dimensions?

Does anyone else have a condenser with green tinted glass?

Thanks

Gerard

MicroBob
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Re: Help with disassembly and repair of zeiss phase condenser

#2 Post by MicroBob » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:41 pm

Hi Gerard,
is it similar to this one:
http://www.mikrohamburg.de/Tips/Technik ... 8.2019.pdf

Bob

Hobbyst46
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Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:02 pm

Re: Help with disassembly and repair of zeiss phase condenser

#3 Post by Hobbyst46 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:11 pm

DrPhoxinus wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:36 pm
My phase condenser on my old zeiss hadn't been used in over decade so the grease hardened. the ball bearing is off the spring because it does not rotate with a click, I tried to disassemby it but could not be the cover off with just the top screw.

I bought another on ebay that is in better physical shape fpr parts but some of the annuli are mssing or delaminated Here is part of the ebay description

Aplanatic brightfield microscope rotary phase contrast condenser with 1.4 0.32 green tinted lens.

This Carl Zeiss phase condenser offers Ph2, Ph3, and J (brightfield) ports as well as a 3 empty ports and a clear glass D (darkfield) port.

The black phase ring on the darkfield port has lifted off (delaminated) leaving just a clear piece of glass.

So how much do I have to unscrew?

How do you remove an annulus?

It seems that the annulus is painted glass. Has anyone repaired the paint?

Has anyone ever added an annulus to one of these condensers? Do you need a metal ring or can you just use an empty port?

What are the dimensions?

Does anyone else have a condenser with green tinted glass?

Thanks

Gerard
There is no green tinted glass in the original condenser. Unless old oil and grease corroded the brass and the resulting copper salts migrated to the glass.
Unscrewing the central slot-screw of the condenser requires a well fitting screwdriver. One with flat blade, not a tapered blade. I did it once with the large screw driver blade of a Swiss Army pocket knife, though.
The carrier of the front (top) lens (marked 1.4 achr. apl.) is removed by careful removal of 2 slot screws, again with well-fitting screwdriver. I learned the importance of high-quality machine screwdrivers from 75RR.
These Zeiss condensers deserve extensive cleaning. I used petrol ether to dissolve old grease, and after 3-4 repeated injection of solvent and drying with KimWipes, the condenser functions without problems.
When opening, take precaution not to lose the small ball and bent metal piece that serve as discrete stops of the rotation (to mark position J, D,.. etc).
Sorry that I cannot help with annuli replacement.

Element 56
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Location: Lancaster County, PA

Re: Help with disassembly and repair of zeiss phase condenser

#4 Post by Element 56 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:31 pm

Hobbyst46 wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:11 pm
There is no green tinted glass in the original condenser.
I was under the impression that the condenser lens was supposed to "oil filled" on some of the Zeiss condensers. Is this not the case?
IMG_18062020_084726_(800_x_900_pixel).jpg
IMG_18062020_084726_(800_x_900_pixel).jpg (88.84 KiB) Viewed 7828 times
IMG_18062020_084736_(800_x_900_pixel).jpg
IMG_18062020_084736_(800_x_900_pixel).jpg (121.2 KiB) Viewed 7828 times

DrPhoxinus
Posts: 316
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Location: Rochester Hills, MI

Re: Help with disassembly and repair of zeiss phase condenser

#5 Post by DrPhoxinus » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:36 pm

Mine looks like that. So is that green oil?

Gerard

apochronaut
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Re: Help with disassembly and repair of zeiss phase condenser

#6 Post by apochronaut » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:54 pm

Leaking during immersion.

Hobbyst46
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Re: Help with disassembly and repair of zeiss phase condenser

#7 Post by Hobbyst46 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:12 pm

The outside of the condenser is very pretty.
Oil filling ?? no. When using high NA objectives (NA>1) in all illumination modes, and when using the D position for dark field with medium-high NAs, the condenser top lens should be oiled to the underside of the slide; oiled with a small drop of oil, just to make contact with the slide; and the condenser should be wiped clean after the session.

DrPhoxinus
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Re: Help with disassembly and repair of zeiss phase condenser

#8 Post by DrPhoxinus » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:13 pm

But mine looks just like the photo with the same green tint and shape

apochronaut
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Re: Help with disassembly and repair of zeiss phase condenser

#9 Post by apochronaut » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:44 pm

Most likely the green tint is due to oxidation of the structural brass of the condenser housing as oil has seeped internally into the condenser optics. It didn't happen overnight . I have seen it in leaking objectives as well.

Element 56
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Location: Lancaster County, PA

Re: Help with disassembly and repair of zeiss phase condenser

#10 Post by Element 56 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:53 pm

I see a lot of seepage in objectives too but I thought I read something somewhere about a Zeiss phase condenser that was supposed to have oil in it. I never used this condenser and only noticed it after reading about them. Who knows maybe I dreamed this and I'm just very confused. Or maybe someone posted something they shouldn't. We all know that can happen on forums! :mrgreen:

Anyway I guess I better clean it up!

Thanks for the help,
Kirby

DrPhoxinus
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Re: Help with disassembly and repair of zeiss phase condenser

#11 Post by DrPhoxinus » Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:15 pm

Indeed Apochronaut is right again.

I was able to loosen the underside ring of the condenser lens and lift off the bottom lens and was able to wipe out the green oil.

now if I can get help with the annuli and what to do with the empty slots.

Has anyone put these type of phase rings in any condenser?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Microscope-Pha ... SwmOBcB1Zf

Thanks

Gerard

Hobbyst46
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Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:02 pm

Re: Help with disassembly and repair of zeiss phase condenser

#12 Post by Hobbyst46 » Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:52 pm

DrPhoxinus wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:15 pm
Indeed Apochronaut is right again.

I was able to loosen the underside ring of the condenser lens and lift off the bottom lens and was able to wipe out the green oil.

now if I can get help with the annuli and what to do with the empty slots.

Has anyone put these type of phase rings in any condenser?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Microscope-Pha ... SwmOBcB1Zf

Thanks

Gerard
If that helps, I can report the diameters of the annuli and stop in my Zeiss standard VZ turret phase contrast condenser. It has Ph2, Ph3 and D.
So the anulus diameter is 3mm for Ph2, 5mm for Ph3, 14mm for the D stop (diameter of the black circle of the D stop, not the external diameter of the disk).
Hope that helps.

DrPhoxinus
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Re: Help with disassembly and repair of zeiss phase condenser

#13 Post by DrPhoxinus » Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:57 pm

Thanks

What are the diameters of the D stop glass, and empty port

Best Wishes

Gerard

Hobbyst46
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Re: Help with disassembly and repair of zeiss phase condenser

#14 Post by Hobbyst46 » Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:43 pm

Sorry that I cannot answer directly, since the condenser is difficult to disassemble now. The reported dimensions were taken a long time ago.
Perhaps the following data might help. In addition to the VZ, I have a II Z phase contrast condenser, I think (Zeiss cat no is 465270 but it is not marked on the condenser) that has Ph1, Ph2, Ph3. The phase annuli have different diameters from those of the VZ condenser: they are 2.5mm, 5mm and 9mm, respectively. But the diameters of the various 5 ports are similar - so I believe. And they are all larger than 19.5mm: the smallest is 21mm, the largest - 27mm. These may hint that a 19.5mm disk will loosely fit within an empty port of the VZ.
Attached are photos of the II Z .
Attachments
20200804_221114.jpg
20200804_221114.jpg (64.58 KiB) Viewed 7729 times
20200804_221050.jpg
20200804_221050.jpg (76.47 KiB) Viewed 7729 times

Hobbyst46
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Re: Help with disassembly and repair of zeiss phase condenser

#15 Post by Hobbyst46 » Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:46 pm

P.S. although the phase annuli diameters are not the same in the II-Z and V-Z condensers, they both perform well (to my eyes) with the various 45mm parfocal Zeiss phase objectives that i have: 16X, 25X, 40X, 63X, 100X.

DrPhoxinus
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Re: Help with disassembly and repair of zeiss phase condenser

#16 Post by DrPhoxinus » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:15 pm

Wow,

I really appreciate those data.

In the condenser I just bought all the ports are the same size.

From what you told me about the 14 mm D stop, one of those ebay phase rings could be overlayed on the delaminated D stop which is just clear glass now.

I think the ports in my Leitz 402aa might be 19.5 mm

As I mentioned in another post a Leitz Phaco 40x gave good phase on a Zeiss Standard 16 with the condenser in Ph 2

Best

Gerard

Charles
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Re: Help with disassembly and repair of zeiss phase condenser

#17 Post by Charles » Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:04 am

As you can see in the above photos, the phase annuli are like glass flat bottom bowls with rims which are held down by the threaded collars. You will need a spanner wrench to unscrew the collars. The larger diameter holes are usually used for darkfield annuli or other filters.

DrPhoxinus
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Re: Help with disassembly and repair of zeiss phase condenser

#18 Post by DrPhoxinus » Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:36 pm

Thanks Charles,

It is interesting that in the Leitz 402aa condenser one can pop the annuli in and out.

The Ph3 annulus is damaged. Can I just put black paint on the clear part of the glass?

I wonder if anyone has inserted an annulus without the threaded collar

Gerard

Charles
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Re: Help with disassembly and repair of zeiss phase condenser

#19 Post by Charles » Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:42 am

I tried painting a couple which had not completely lifted off and pieces were missing. I had to give it three coats but it came out pretty good. If you have a good template, it should be doable. Maybe you could use electrical tape and a sharp X-acto or surgical knife.

DrPhoxinus
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Location: Rochester Hills, MI

Re: Help with disassembly and repair of zeiss phase condenser

#20 Post by DrPhoxinus » Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:48 pm

Charles,

As always thanks.

The most recent one only has three ports filled

The Ph3 is partly lifted off probably do to oil soaking through and the D port is just clear glass.

I will try the electrical tape soon.

May I ask you how many scopes do you own?

Gerard

Charles
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Re: Help with disassembly and repair of zeiss phase condenser

#21 Post by Charles » Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:34 pm

DrPhoxinus wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:48 pm
May I ask you how many scopes do you own?
Gerard, I own quite a few...hundred? I don't know the count and no estimate. I like collecting the old, rare and interesting microscopes and stereo scopes

DrPhoxinus
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Re: Help with disassembly and repair of zeiss phase condenser

#22 Post by DrPhoxinus » Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:23 pm

I would like to take a moment and express my gratitude to those who have helped me.
Microbob posted a link to a German pdf and I found a German to English translator on the web.
I have been able to clean out to the green oil. When I bought that condenser I knew it was damaged and
rather depauperate annuli but it was just $63 and given me confidence to open my original condenser.

I have ordered 21 mm and 19.5 watch crystals for the empty ports in the Zeiss and potentially replacing
some of the annuli in my Leitz 402aa.

Has anyone successfully printed annuli on acetate by either inkjet or laser printer?

I am considering those phase contrast rings on ebay to be supported by those watch crystals.

Best Wishes

Gerard

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