Culturing a food chain

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DaveH
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#181 Post by DaveH » Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:16 pm

This is a picture of one of the Copepods it's dead as its been on the slide for a day or two taken at 40X

Image

Dave

DaveH
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#182 Post by DaveH » Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:30 pm

This is one of the Rotifers is also been on the slide a while taken at 100X

Image

Dave

shawngibson
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#183 Post by shawngibson » Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:06 pm

Very nice:)

What's your goal with the copepods and rotifers?

Following up with your filter question, I just added a filter to the propeller (if that's what it's called) and the line which feeds the undergravel filter (I added net to the intake at the pump).

Here's a short clip of where I am:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbYg2g5 ... load_owner

DaveH
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#184 Post by DaveH » Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:36 pm

Hi Shawn

The only problem I can see is if the sand is sucked through the holes in the pipe work under the sand, if you can get a good water flow through the system then it will work,

My goal with the Copepods and Rotifers goes back to your original perception of the food chain, just to see if it will work, I have some shrimp and some algae I collected from the beach together with the Copepods and Rotifers. I have increased the amount of light and am feeding every day both with phytoplankton and spirulina, the algae scrapings are holding there own and I'm hoping they will eventually cover the bottom and the sides of the tank. I only got the Copepods and Rotifers because I found them at a good price otherwise I would have gone hunting in the summer, if all goes to plan then I will turn of the air and let it fend for itself but that could be a year away!
Here's a short video of where I am at the moment, you can see the shrimp ok and the small things darting around are the Copepods, the web cam can't pick up the Rotifers but there are a load in the tank.



Dave

shawngibson
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#185 Post by shawngibson » Sun Dec 06, 2015 7:05 pm

Hi Dave, that's awesome, looks like it is thriving.

I added a filter at the propeller, where it pushes pressure into the undergravel, but it lost all pressure, so I removed it. But the undergravel itself has a lot of pressure, so I'm not sure if I need to worry about small sand getting inside? In other words, all of the holes in the undergravel filter are aggressively pushing air out, so right now I'm not worried about sand entering a hole.

Sand is still settling, so tomorrow night hopefully I can look at what I have.

DaveH
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#186 Post by DaveH » Sun Dec 06, 2015 7:22 pm

Hi Shawn

Usually the water flows the other way through the sand and out of the upright tubes, you might find that you are always pushing sand into suspension. Yes my tank is not getting on to bad but it's early days yet, as you know it can all go wrong overnight.

Dave

shawngibson
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#187 Post by shawngibson » Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:31 pm

Near as I can tell, I'm pushing air and water OUT the tubes, i.e. the little holes are forcing contents out into the sand. Are you saying that's backwards?

I can see that all of the holes I've drilled are pushing contents out, creating little mushrooms/active volcanoes in the sand.

DaveH
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#188 Post by DaveH » Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:50 pm

Hi Shawn

Yes I would say it's backwards, but the requirement is to filter the water through the sand if it's not turning the tank into a cloudy sand storm then if it works leave it alone.

Dave

shawngibson
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#189 Post by shawngibson » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:14 pm

I followed these directions exactly, minus tube instead of pipe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZqvOZI6-pc

DaveH
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#190 Post by DaveH » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:37 pm

Hi Shawn

I watched the video yes he is pumping the water from the tank in the substrate, first time I've seen that done, but I haven't looked at anything regarding filtration for years, seems like it's a kind of mini fluid bed system, there's no reason why it won't work as long as it doesn't keep the sand in suspension and make the tank cloudy, run it for a while and if the tank clears then everything if ok.
Have you got any shrimp on the go at the moment.

Dave

shawngibson
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#191 Post by shawngibson » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:44 pm

I ran it yesterday, it cleared fine, but I had to redo it because of the bio filtration. I suspect it will clear fine again by tomorrow morning?

I added egg yolks to the brine shrimp tank today, we'll see if that helps.

Starting to feel very dumb that I can't even raise shrimp to adulthood, let alone breed them...

Shawn

DaveH
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#192 Post by DaveH » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:56 pm

If it clears the tank then run with it, if you grow the brine shrimp in the tank then it's a fine balance between starving then to death and sending the bad, I grew them on in a jar and put them in the tank when they were fully formed that was abought two at a time, out of maybe 20 eggs that hatch I got 2 or 3 to grow, you could use the 1ltr bottle method then you can pile the food in and if it goes bad then it's no big problem just start again, maybe look at cultureing some phytoplankton that will feed the shrimp.

Dave

shawngibson
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#193 Post by shawngibson » Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:06 pm

Hey Dave, have a look here. I think I'm getting closer to success, I dunno:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNdFu7Ja2a8

DaveH
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#194 Post by DaveH » Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:58 pm

Hi the big tank looks good it needs a bit more sand I think the movement of sand should be under the surface of the sand so you can't see it on the surface, in the little tank it looks like a lot of egg yoke I would take the floating yoke out, it would be better if you liquidised the yoke and fed it as a liquid the tanks just need time to mature, just one question was the water in the small tank green with algae if so I am surprised the filter cleared it, but green water if it's algae then it's perfect food for the shrimp.
I think the only thing you need is time then all will be working well.

Dave

shawngibson
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#195 Post by shawngibson » Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:03 pm

Hi Dave

Removing the yolk as we speak. How do I liquidize it going forward?

The green, I think, was frozen micro algae, i.e. dead.
DaveH wrote:Hi the big tank looks good it needs a bit more sand I think the movement of sand should be under the surface of the sand so you can't see it on the surface, in the little tank it looks like a lot of egg yoke I would take the floating yoke out, it would be better if you liquidised the yoke and fed it as a liquid the tanks just need time to mature, just one question was the water in the small tank green with algae if so I am surprised the filter cleared it, but green water if it's algae then it's perfect food for the shrimp.
I think the only thing you need is time then all will be working well.

Dave

DaveH
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#196 Post by DaveH » Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:13 pm

Yes I think it was probably dead when the water goes green filtration seldom clears it, egg yoke either put it in something with a bit o water and just mash it up the particle size of egg yoke is small or you can put half a lot of water in a litre bottle break a boiled egg yoke into small pieces drop them in the bottle add half a dozen marbles and give it a good shake then use as feed at a rate of half a ml every other day to a litre bottle of shrimp.

Dave

shawngibson
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#197 Post by shawngibson » Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:34 pm

Well now that was a pain in the butt lol...half an hour of removing yolk.

Im going to go to Big Als tomorrow and get a crab or a shrimp, i.e. something to prove to me that my water is OK.

Draining the yolk most certainly drained any shrimp in the water, but that is OK since they were clearly not eating or surviving.

I have a new batch of shrimp in the incubator.

I suppose I have unleashed a bunch of chemicals with the yolk, namely sulpher probably.

DaveH
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#198 Post by DaveH » Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:41 pm

Don't worry the water will be fine, it's been going for a few weeks and the system should cope with it, by far the best dry feed for the shrimps is spirulina you will probably have to get some mail order.
If you are going to buy a crab or a shrimp then I would go for a shrimp I think they are easier, I have tried to keep crabs and lobsters in the past and they are not that easy, don't forget to get some food for your new pet.

Dave

shawngibson
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#199 Post by shawngibson » Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:43 pm

ps as I look, the tank is actually still very green. There is a thin film of green everywhere, so I suppose that is good.

DaveH
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#200 Post by DaveH » Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:46 pm

If it's live green then it's perfect, if I can get mine like pea soup then I will consider it a good starting point.

Dave

shawngibson
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#201 Post by shawngibson » Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:48 pm

DaveH wrote:Don't worry the water will be fine, it's been going for a few weeks and the system should cope with it, by far the best dry feed for the shrimps is spirulina you will probably have to get some mail order.
If you are going to buy a crab or a shrimp then I would go for a shrimp I think they are easier, I have tried to keep crabs and lobsters in the past and they are not that easy, don't forget to get some food for your new pet.

Dave
I can get live phytoplankton here, but it is about $45 per ounce:

https://www.upayanaturals.com/Ocean_s_A ... e-0015.htm

shawngibson
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#202 Post by shawngibson » Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:52 pm

How much more live sand do you think I need in the big tank? 10Lbs?

shawngibson
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#203 Post by shawngibson » Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:58 pm

Big tank is clear now:
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DaveH
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#204 Post by DaveH » Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:05 am

No don't pay that much, if Big Al sells live brine shrimp ask him if his supplier sells phytoplankton as well and order a bag if they do, I have seen culture discs on the net I will have a look for them and post the link I'm sure there from the US, search eBay for spirulina and buy a small pack of powder it lasts for ages I'm using some that has been in the fridge for at least 15 years, I did try and search eBay in Canada but my iPad keeps opening the eBay app for the UK.
Sand I don't know what weight you might need but I think you need abought 1/2 inch more at the front and what ever you need at the back, I think you said you needed it deeper there fore your shrimp.

Dave

Ps the big tank is looking good

charlie g
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#205 Post by charlie g » Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:44 am

Hi Shawn and Dave H ( I'm late to all your developements here!)...I ask you both:

even with my freshwater indoor setups with bubble-boxes+water pumps...in as little as a week...the air bubbles which at water surface 'pop'...well they all send tiny jets of water droplets above the waters surface...and 'salts' accumulate on whatever surfaces these tiny bubbles 'spurt water droplets onto'.

So with both your salt water tanks...aren't you getting more accumulated 'salt scale/mineral crud' build ups where ever those salt water air bubbles 'pop' at the tank surface?

When ever I kept an indoor tanks system...the glass cover over the water surface rapidly 'encrusted from salts' (?hard water in a lot of my fresh water setups).

How do you two 'salt water aquarists' control the constant pops of salt water droplets onto exterior surfaces? BTW,,,nice shrimp, Dave H! charlie guevara

DaveH
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#206 Post by DaveH » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:36 am

Hi Charlie

A problem I know only to well scraping the glass tank covers off with a razor blade, when I set my tank up I used a little round under gravel filter sold to fit in a goldfish bowl it had a little cartridge on the top with carbon and filter wool in it I took the contents out of the cartridge and used it empty to reduce the violence of the air at the surface I also put the top of the filter tube just above the water surface by abought 2 or 3 mm, at the moment I'm lucky in that the tank is hotter than the surrounding room temp so I have a lot of condensation on the bottom of tank cover that drips back into the tank keeping it clean. I do expect to get a salt buildup at some point I will just return it back into the tank.
When we used to make our filters out of corrugated roofing and plastic overflow pipe we used to put a 90 degree bend on the top of the outlet pipes this stopped most of the problam, you could do the same with a little box filter using a bit of flexible tubing.
Just a last thought I only have a small amount of air ping through my filter as the idea was to use it as a startup aid and not to set up a full marine setup so I have less air causing a problam.

At the moment the shrimps are doing fine I have females with eggs but haven't seen any mails hooked up to them, maybe I have an all female population at the moment only time will tell, the Rotifers and Copepods are still alive only time will tell what the result of this experiment will be.

Dave

DaveH
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Re: Culturing a food chain

#207 Post by DaveH » Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:46 pm

Hi Shawn
Been quiet on this thread how are the tanks and shrimp, here's a link regarding phytoplankton http://www.melevsreef.com/phytoplankton.html
Looks like most folks in your part of the world use the supplier linked to in this article, I think that f2 food for the phytoplankton rather than miracle grow would be better.

Dave

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