Ph and DIC for Leica DM2500

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sigitask
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Ph and DIC for Leica DM2500

#1 Post by sigitask » Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:29 pm

Thinking to buy Leica DM2500 with Condenser 0.9 (P) SI. Like to use this microscope for Ph2, Ph3, DF and DIC, with 100x and 40x objectives. May have advice what models of prisms, condenser accessories, analyzer necessary for this applications? Is it possible to use Condenser 0.9 (P) SI to have it, or I have to buy new condenser?

PeteM
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Re: Ph and DIC for Leica DM2500

#2 Post by PeteM » Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:18 am

For DIC, you'll need a carousel type condenser with DIC prisms (K1, K2, K3, K4 . . . etc.) and one or more DIC prism sliders up top (A,B,C,D . . .). DIC-compatible Leica objectives will be marked (A,B,C,D . . .) as an indication of what prism slider is needed. Plus a polarizer and analyzer.

If you're careful in acquiring suitable objectives you may be able to do most magnifications (20x to 100x) with a "D" slider and three or so condenser prisms. If you're lucky you might get all these bits (top slider, condenser, three condenser-resident prisms, plus a polarizer and analyzer) for around $2K - plus the cost of objectives etc.

The scope will offer spectacular images, especially with plan fluorite objectives and a wide head. And unless you need phase to reveal certain cell structures, you may find yourself using DIC to its exclusion.

sigitask
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Re: Ph and DIC for Leica DM2500

#3 Post by sigitask » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:03 pm

Thank you! Im new in DIC, and like to ask more explanations. If I understand right I need only one polarizer and analyzer for all objectives? And D slider prism for each objective ( there is included 100x D, and I will buy 40x D ) ? And condenser prism for each objective?

Original condenser 0.9 (P) SI, what is included, has sliding lens on top, maybe is is possible to have DIC prisms for this condenser, or only way to use carousel condenser?

sigitask
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Re: Ph and DIC for Leica DM2500

#4 Post by sigitask » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:13 pm

There is picture of included condenser:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/puka6ddajh5w6 ... 5.jpg?dl=0

Microscopy_is_fun
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Re: Ph and DIC for Leica DM2500

#5 Post by Microscopy_is_fun » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:20 pm

Hi sigitask,
you need just one polarizer and one analyzer, this will then work for all objectives. If you like the crispy coulours which you see in many DIC images, you might also want to use an additional lambda plate.

The D-prism works for many objectives. There is also a D1 prism which gives slightly higher resolution, but less contrast. You can find the required prisms (objective prism slider and condenser prism) for most of the available Leica objectives in this pdf:

https://www.leicabiosystems.com/fileadm ... ves_DE.pdf


Microscopy_is_fun
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Re: Ph and DIC for Leica DM2500

#7 Post by Microscopy_is_fun » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:39 pm

Hi sigitask,

your condensor won't work. You need this one, which has a carousel for the DIC prisms and is suitable for polarisation imaging:
_DSC7528.jpg
_DSC7528.jpg (84.09 KiB) Viewed 339 times
_DSC7530.jpg
_DSC7530.jpg (66.89 KiB) Viewed 339 times

sigitask
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Re: Ph and DIC for Leica DM2500

#8 Post by sigitask » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:45 pm

Thank you for table. There included HCX PL fluotar 100x oil 1,3 D objective what is good for DIC.
I get from table:
HCX PL FLUOTAR 100x/1.30 OIL 0 0.17 K4+D K4 or
K12 11) K10 - D D(D1) M25 0.13 11506195

But do not understand all this codes. Will be very thank full if you will explain it.

sigitask
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Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:27 pm

Re: Ph and DIC for Leica DM2500

#9 Post by sigitask » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:47 pm

thumbnail_IMG_0178.jpg
thumbnail_IMG_0178.jpg (51.12 KiB) Viewed 334 times
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sigitask
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Re: Ph and DIC for Leica DM2500

#10 Post by sigitask » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:49 pm

Ok understand thank you! This condenser will not work. Maybe it can work with Ph2, Ph3 and DF x100, x40 ?
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Microscopy_is_fun
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Re: Ph and DIC for Leica DM2500

#11 Post by Microscopy_is_fun » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:58 pm

sigitask wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:45 pm
Thank you for table. There included HCX PL fluotar 100x oil 1,3 D objective what is good for DIC.
I get from table:
HCX PL FLUOTAR 100x/1.30 OIL 0 0.17 K4+D K4 or
K12 11) K10 - D D(D1) M25 0.13 11506195
Assuming that you have an upright microscope ("Aufrecht" in the list), you need prism slider D and prism K4 if you only oil the objective but not the condenser. If you oil the objective AND the condenser, you need prisms D and K12. Additionally, you need condenser head S1 to be able to oil the head and use the full aperture of your objective.

The image below shows how my condenser carousel and slider D look like in my microscope
_DSC7531.jpg
_DSC7531.jpg (98.8 KiB) Viewed 330 times
Last edited by Microscopy_is_fun on Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PeteM
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Re: Ph and DIC for Leica DM2500

#12 Post by PeteM » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:02 pm

You'll also need a carousel sort of condenser for phase contrast. However, it will be fitted with phase annuli to match various phase objectives rather than DIC prisms.

Your 100x is a good objective and will work with the "D" slider. You'd need that and a DIC condenser with a "K4" prism installed to get DIC. For most people, lower magnifications 10x - 20x - 40x are especially useful. One plus with Leica is that they have prism combinations to get DIC at lower magnifications. They also (along with Nikon, Olympus, and Zeiss) have a superb 60x plan apo that's DIC capable.

On edit: see this was already answered. Looking at that nicely equipped Leica - microscopy really IS fun.
Last edited by PeteM on Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Microscopy_is_fun
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Re: Ph and DIC for Leica DM2500

#13 Post by Microscopy_is_fun » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:03 pm

sigitask wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:49 pm
Ok understand thank you! This condenser will not work. Maybe it can work with Ph2, Ph3 and DF x100, x40 ?
Probably you can use a condenser slider fo PH and DF with the condenser in your picture. I do not see the slot for the sliders in your image, but probably it's just hidden.

I am not sure, but I guess the DF slider only works well with rather small magnifications.
Last edited by Microscopy_is_fun on Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PeteM
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Re: Ph and DIC for Leica DM2500

#14 Post by PeteM » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:07 pm

Sigitask - what objectives do you already have with the scope in question? If they are phase types, then it makes sense to get a phase condenser and annuli. If not and if you are sure you want DIC (and have more DIC capable objectives), maybe use what you have for a while with the idea of ultimately upgrading to DIC?

sigitask
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:27 pm

Re: Ph and DIC for Leica DM2500

#15 Post by sigitask » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:40 pm

At the moment there is on HCX PL Fluotar 20x D and 100X D, what I think will be good for DIC. For Ph of course I have to buy Ph objectives. Objectives it is easy to understandable for me, but all sliders, prisms, analyzers, polarizers and condenser confusing me totally :)

sigitask
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:27 pm

Re: Ph and DIC for Leica DM2500

#16 Post by sigitask » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:43 pm

I just investigating possibilities and prices for all accesories for Ph, DF, Dic. Probably I will start from DF and Ph, later will add DIC. Want to buy thinks what is suitable for all applications DF, Ph, DIC

PeteM
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Location: N. California

Re: Ph and DIC for Leica DM2500

#17 Post by PeteM » Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:32 pm

FWIW, good Leica phase objectives and a phase condenser won't be cheap. If you're lucky, about the same money might get you DIC, since you already have good 20x and 100x DIC-capable plan fluorite objectives. What 40x do you have? Something like an N Plan will work fine and even some lesser 40x Leica objectives not marked for DIC will work OK.

sigitask
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Re: Ph and DIC for Leica DM2500

#18 Post by sigitask » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:03 pm

Today, from Leica representative, get list of components what is necessary to make DIC on DM2500. Prices in euros plus VAT:
11551062 Condenser bottom part UCA/P 1,107.00
11505150 Condenser head 0.90 S1 415.00
11521504 Set of light rings f. condenser UCA S1 73.00
11555034 Polarizer L ICT/P 873.00
11555045 Analyzer L ICT/P 496.00

11555063 Objective prism-slider D1 956.00
11521524 ICT condenser prism K10 1,078.00

PeteM
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Re: Ph and DIC for Leica DM2500

#19 Post by PeteM » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:47 pm

On the used marked, you should be able to assemble a system for about 25-30% of those new prices.

sigitask
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:27 pm

Re: Ph and DIC for Leica DM2500

#20 Post by sigitask » Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:05 am

At the moment on used marked can not find good prices. Probably need time.

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