Advice On Buying Parts On eBay

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biofilmer86
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Advice On Buying Parts On eBay

#1 Post by biofilmer86 » Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:28 pm

I would like to know about avoiding scammers on eBay. For instance, if I find a seller who salvages microscopes and sells the parts at a fraction of MSRP but has zero negative and zero neutral feedback should that be a red flag and the seller should be avoided or is it a possible sign the seller is highly trusted on eBay?

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Re: Advice On Buying Parts On eBay

#2 Post by deBult » Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:42 pm

Double check postage cost as well, sometimes the object is cheaply priced and postage ridiculously high.

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Re: Advice On Buying Parts On eBay

#3 Post by apochronaut » Tue Dec 28, 2021 8:21 pm

Ebay is entirely safe if you read ebay's policies and rules and observe them. For instance, sellers will often put " no returns accepted" in a listing. That is against ebay rules. They can post that all they like but if they make a mistake , they can resist accepting a return until they are green around the gills but Ebay will just dip into their account and refund you and you will get to kerp the item at no cost.

The only way you can get caught is if they list something as " untested" or "as is" , you spring for it anyway and it turns out to be a dud. That's a buyer beware listing and as such , kind of the luck if the draw. I have bought items like that based on my knowledge of the item and answers to questions asked and only regretted it a couple of times. When in doubt, ask pertinent questions but many listings are airtight.
I have two microscopes sitting here that cost me $0.00. As a case study: The seller substituted a different condenser than was in the listing. When I called him on it, he wanted me to return the one I received at my expense. I suggested it was his responsibility to cover that cost. He refused, so I filed for a return of the entire microscope under the " not as described" category and had photographic proof. Photos are slways helpfull but in this case he had already admitted the substitution in an email. He refused to cough up the return shipping fee and after a week or so of him stalling, ebay just plucked the money from his account. Ebay buyer protection is actually pretty good.

If an item is listed as works as intended or fully tested or in good shape etc., and isn't or is damaged in shipment, you can file for a return. The seller should then send you a shipping ticket and upon the receipt of the return tracking #, issue a complete refund inclusive of original shipping. in the event of a dispute, let's say the seller refuses to refund or won't issue a shipping ticket , 99% of the time unless there is something gravely wrong with your claim, ebay will just refund at the sellers expense.
Last edited by apochronaut on Wed Dec 29, 2021 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

biofilmer86
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Re: Advice On Buying Parts On eBay

#4 Post by biofilmer86 » Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:03 pm

What about China-based sellers? Also, how are import fees calculated like customs and value added tax?

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Re: Advice On Buying Parts On eBay

#5 Post by Dubious » Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:47 am

Can you buy the Chinese-made item from a reseller here, through Amscope, Ebay, Amazon, or similar? If so, better to let the reseller handle the international transaction. Much faster (if in stock), much easier in terms of returns, and no worries about customs tax. I understand return postage to China can be high (for some insane reason, the US apparently subsidizes postage from China to the US), and I have heard there is or was a 25% tariff on microscopes because of the trade wars. I have ordered inexpensive items from China ($20 eyepieces, $3 adapter, etc.) and received them without problem, but I would not do that with an expensive item unless it was unavailable in the US, or maybe a large price differential.

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Re: Advice On Buying Parts On eBay

#6 Post by apochronaut » Wed Dec 29, 2021 1:07 am

Dubious wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:47 am
Can you buy the Chinese-made item from a reseller here, through Amscope, Ebay, Amazon, or similar? If so, better to let the reseller handle the international transaction. Much faster (if in stock), much easier in terms of returns, and no worries about customs tax. I understand return postage to China can be high (for some insane reason, the US apparently subsidizes postage from China to the US), and I have heard there is or was a 25% tariff on microscopes because of the trade wars. I have ordered inexpensive items from China ($20 eyepieces, $3 adapter, etc.) and received them without problem, but I would not do that with an expensive item unless it was unavailable in the US, or maybe a large price differential.
" Can you buy the Chinese-made item from a reseller here, though Amscope , Ebay, Amazon or similar?" The post was about trust in ebay!!

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Re: Advice On Buying Parts On eBay

#7 Post by biofilmer86 » Wed Dec 29, 2021 1:22 am

Not Chinese-made items, microscope parts salvaged in China and sold by Chinese-based eBay sellers internationally.

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Re: Advice On Buying Parts On eBay

#8 Post by zzffnn » Wed Dec 29, 2021 1:28 am

It really depends on exact wording of the exact item description.

For example, "used" conditioned microscopes in the "collectible" category may not work at all, because wording would say "Used. An item that has been used previously. See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections." Seller's own description may say "unrested".

The same "used" conditioned microscope in "Business & Industrial" category may say:
"Used. An item that has been used previously. The item may have some signs of cosmetic wear, but is fully operational and functions as intended. This item may be a floor model or store return that has been used. See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections."

And note that different people may have different definition on what is "fully operational and functions as intended". For example, can a mild delamination be defined that way? Usually, eBay would side with buyer in this case, but not in that "collectible" category.

I worked in a law firm before. Those eBay descriptions are written by attorneys specifically for specific purposes. Consider them terms of a binding contract. Study them word by word. Because if there are conflicts, they will be resolved with those exact wording in the binding contract.

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Re: Advice On Buying Parts On eBay

#9 Post by Dubious » Wed Dec 29, 2021 2:26 am

apochronaut wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 1:07 am


" Can you buy the Chinese-made item from a reseller here, though Amscope , Ebay, Amazon or similar?" The post was about trust in ebay!!

You missed his followup question, that came after you explained how safe Ebay is...
"What about China-based sellers? Also, how are import fees calculated like customs and value added tax?"

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Re: Advice On Buying Parts On eBay

#10 Post by 75RR » Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:34 am

.
For item condition you need to go with Ebay's definition. That is the only one that counts.

The weasel phrasing "untested" or "as is" is meaningless.

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/listi ... d=HELP1421

Scroll down to Business & Industrial
.
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Re: Advice On Buying Parts On eBay

#11 Post by apochronaut » Wed Dec 29, 2021 2:31 pm

Dubious wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 2:26 am
apochronaut wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 1:07 am


" Can you buy the Chinese-made item from a reseller here, though Amscope , Ebay, Amazon or similar?" The post was about trust in ebay!!

You missed his followup question, that came after you explained how safe Ebay is...
"What about China-based sellers? Also, how are import fees calculated like customs and value added tax?"
No, I didn't miss it. Ebay is ebay. It doesn't matter where the seller is located. If someone is listing something for sale to you and are willing to ship to you, using the ebay platform, then they have to follow the rules in the buyers jurisdiction. It doesn't matter if the seller is in China. In fact, a Chinese merchant that sets up a storefront in North America offers only a false sense of security. They have to follow the same set of rules irregardless of where they are working from and in my experience( over 5000 ebay purchases), Chinese merchants are very thorough and forthright. The worst merchants I have encountered by far are in the U.S. Half the population belongs to the Flat Earth Society and it's all within U.S. borders!
Where people make mistakes buying on ebay is by not asking enough questions in cases where the description is vague or lacking detail. In the case of a dispute, ebay places a heavy weight on what was said and offered during communication between the parties. That kind of stuff supercedes the printed rules in the case of a dispute. If the listing says untested but you ask how the focusing is and the answer is " a little stiff but works o.k." and you get it and it is so stiff you can barely move it, ebay will expect that seller to pay you back and pay for the shipping return. You may have to go so far as to talk your case through on the phone but they usually respond to a reasoned argument and will read the emails.
A recent case in point. I bought a bunch of batteries. 16.00, no big deal. When the alloted shipping period passed and they hadn't arrived, I filed a no show with ebay. Well, the seller was ready and had tracking that showed those batteries had been delivered a month earlier. He even sent me a screen shot from a tracking site showing delivery, which I was able to verify from the same site myself and it matched the tracking # as originally provided for the shipment shortly after purchase. Slam dunk you would think. Ebay should honour a seller that sent a tracked and delivered item, correct? Only problem was that the tracking # had 13 digits not the required 12. It was an old tracking # for a domestic shipment, not international and had nothing to do with my shipment. It was a scam. The seller supplied a tracking # for the shipment that was recent enough to still be in the system and therefore could be used to trick an unwary buyer into believing that they had honoured the terms of the purchase. I had to explain it all over the phone but Ebay listened and verified the accuracy of my story, so they lifted the money from the sellers account and refunded me.

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Re: Advice On Buying Parts On eBay

#12 Post by zzffnn » Wed Dec 29, 2021 3:00 pm

75RR wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:34 am
.
For item condition you need to go with Ebay's definition. That is the only one that counts.

The weasel phrasing "untested" or "as is" is meaningless.

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/listi ... d=HELP1421

Scroll down to Business & Industrial
.
Nothing personal against 75RR, but personally, I would be more carefully than reading only that page.

If you carefully read THAT "used" definition of eBay, the last sentence is a loophole for seller.

If those "imperfections" are deal breaker for you (and only "imperfections" for seller), then you should not buy it.

Also pay attention to date of such eBay general definitions. I would think they don't change very often and are automatically filled onto seller's item description without letting seller modify them.

And I would like to see what Ebay's general definition for "used" in "collectibles" is and how it differs from "used" in "Business & industrial". That is my point.

When eBay does not define "used" as "fully functional" in "collectibles" category and seller says "untested", then you will likely not receive a refund.

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Re: Advice On Buying Parts On eBay

#13 Post by zzffnn » Wed Dec 29, 2021 3:14 pm

I agree with Apochronaut on shipping.

It is all in the details.

One time, my tracking says "delivered ", but post office messed up and never delivered to my correct address. I filed a police report and documented the incident.

Also, "delivered" doesn't mean "item as described". It happened to my friend before that a box of rocks were sent instead of a camera.

Don't buy from sellers with zero or low / poor feedback. Your own time may be too valuable to be spent fighting cases at eBay. If the deal is too good to be true, it likely is.

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Re: Advice On Buying Parts On eBay

#14 Post by 75RR » Wed Dec 29, 2021 3:23 pm

zzffnn wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 3:00 pm

Nothing personal against 75RR, but personally, I would be more carefully than reading only that page.

If you carefully read THAT "used" definition of eBay, the last sentence is a loophole for seller.

If those "imperfections" are deal breaker for you (and only "imperfections" for seller), then you should not buy it.

Also pay attention to date of such eBay general definitions. I would think they don't change very often and are automatically filled onto seller's item description without letting seller modify them.

And I would like to see what Ebay's general definition for "used" in "collectibles" is and how it differs from "used" in "Business & industrial". That is my point.

When eBay does not define "used" as "fully functional" in "collectibles" category and seller says "untested", then you will likely not receive a refund.
This is Ebay's definition of used (see post #10 above)

Used: The item was previously used. The item may have some signs of cosmetic wear, but it is fully operational and functions as intended.
This item may be a floor model or store return that has been used. See the seller's listing for full details and a description of any imperfections


The last sentence: 'See the seller's listing for full details and a description of any imperfections' is about dents and scratches.

The second sentence is the one that matters 'The item may have some signs of cosmetic wear, but it is fully operational and functions as intended' No getting around that!

If item is incomplete, broken, or defective then an honest dealer would list it as 'For parts or not working' per Ebay's definitions

A dealer that lists it as anything else, such as 'as is' or 'untested' is trying to hustle you.
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Re: Advice On Buying Parts On eBay

#15 Post by zzffnn » Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:06 pm

^ Yes, that is the "used" definition under "business & industrial" category and it is more favorable for buyers like us, because it includes "fully functional".

But eBay "used" definition under "collectibles" category is more favorable for sellers and does not include the "fully functional" phrase.

I did read each and every word, more carefully than most people. I worked in a law firm for two years writing legal arguments, just like a junior attorney. Based on my professional judgement, words like "incomplete", "broken", or "defective" can be rather subjective, even though it may sound black and white distinct for some people.

The definition of "imperfection" is a loophole in my eyes and depends on who you ask. That is just how I see it. Others can see it differently.

What is important is the solution: when I buy at eBay, (if I care to spend my time at that specific eBay listing), I will ask seller specific questions, such as "is there delamination " or "is the focus drive mechanism stiff or smooth", to minimize risk of falling into those definition loopholes. That is just me myself being overtly cautious. I cannot speak for others.

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Re: Advice On Buying Parts On eBay

#16 Post by Rich Field » Wed May 11, 2022 8:25 pm

There's one particular high-volume, used microscope reseller based out of Oregon who, I feel, is a little devious in their posting of items.

For an outfit that deals in seriously high tech equipment, they have the capability to take decent photos but deliberately choose not to. It's one thing to omit a detailed write-up in a description; such write-ups take a lot of time and deep knowledge, probably in short supply at such an outfit. It's another thing altogether to post deliberately crappy photos, or just one single photo, or a series of blurry photos from limited angles.

Microscopes are expensive and delicate tools. Dings, surface wear, scuffs, missing screws and components, peeling stickers, and cracked parts belie the history of the instrument; something that I'd want to know before plunking down thousands of dollars.

Good product photos go a long way in instilling trust and when they're deliberately missing, it feels like the reseller is either hiding something or covering their ass for a potential problem after the sale.

Either way, not cool.

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Re: Advice On Buying Parts On eBay

#17 Post by PeteM » Wed May 11, 2022 9:28 pm

Rich Field wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 8:25 pm
There's one particular high-volume, used microscope reseller based out of Oregon who, I feel, is a little devious in their posting of items. . . .
Assuming it's the same one, they also don't reply to questions about condition. On the one time I managed to find a phone number and reach someone. The attitude was that it would be a big inconvenience to find the item (a dic condenser) and find out if it had any dic prisms inside. The solution, of course, is to not buy.

As has been said, Ebay is pretty safe. There are a few ways people try to cheat:

- Listing things as "for parts" and then claiming they're OK in the listing and a selected few photos but sending clearly damaged junk. This is particularly a problem with overseas purchases because sellers will say they can't send a return shipping label and return shipping turns out to be prohibitively expensive. I've had several optics arrive from China-Thailand-Japan etc. filled with fungus - with most issues eventually resolved. If it's "used" or better, you can generally have Ebay step in. Even if it's "for parts" and the seller has lots of sales and feedback, they may make things right to avoid negative feedback.

- Sellers sending empty boxes or the wrong item. This happened to me once with a digital micrometer set. If it's a high dollar item from a zero feedback seller, I take a video of opening up the box. That helped get a recovery from Ebay in one case when I was sold a Wild M8 stereo scope and received a broke M5. You won't find this with sellers with significant positive feedback, unless someone hacks their account (as happens).

- One seller used stolen postal delivery numbers to try to defraud several years back. They did this just as the USPS was instituting photos of tracked items and got caught. Our neighborhood postal guy was very helpful in tracking this down.

- Sellers offering incredible deals and asking you to buy off Ebay.

By far the larger problem is items not carefully packed or not packed at all (e.g. a microscope just dropped into an otherwise empty cardboard box). The other issue seems to be sellers imagining used scopes or parts are worth more than new or new equivalents as everything else gets inflated. This will eventually sort itself out, I'd think.

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Re: Advice On Buying Parts On eBay

#18 Post by zzffnn » Wed May 11, 2022 9:37 pm

PeteM,

Sorry, I dis not understand what you meant by:

Quote

- One seller used stolen postal delivery numbers to try to defraud. They did this just as the USPS was instituting photos of tracked items and got caught. Our neighborhood postal guy was very helpful in tracking this down.

Unquote

How can a postal delivery number be stolen?

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Re: Advice On Buying Parts On eBay

#19 Post by apochronaut » Wed May 11, 2022 9:58 pm

One important point that gets overlooked is that ebay buyer protection is valid if all of the boxes are checked off above regarding the buyer's due diligence but there is a time limit in which a claim must be made and ebay has become very strict about that because in some instances they have to cover the refund. Sometimes unscrupulous sellers may have vamoosed.
30 days. Don't bother filing a claim after 30 days.

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Re: Advice On Buying Parts On eBay

#20 Post by PeteM » Wed May 11, 2022 11:41 pm

zzffnn wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 9:37 pm
PeteM,

Sorry, I dis not understand what you meant by . . .
What the "seller" somehow managed to do was get a list of USPS tracking numbers that would be shown as "delivered." These were in the same general area as the package I was supposedly received. They had inserted this number (different package, destined to someone else, but in the same Zip code) into the Ebay we-shipped-it-and-here's-your-tracking-number field. So from Ebay's perspective it looked like USPS said the package had been delivered and I was lying about not receiving it.

Around the same time the USPS had started photographing packages as they passed through the local P.O. This was just before they made those photos available in "Informed Delivery" as we can see and track now. What Matt, our mailman, was able to show was that the supposed item I received was a small package (not a stand) and had been delivered by him to a different address.

It was never clear to me is how the fraudulent Ebay seller hacked or stole a list of tracking numbers. Inside job in cahoots with a postal employee? Hacked a database - probably not all that secure in the early days of USPS tracking? Found some prolific shipper and got a list of their tracking numbers? Or?? In any case, Ebay got my money back and the seller disappeared from the site.

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Re: Advice On Buying Parts On eBay

#21 Post by apochronaut » Thu May 12, 2022 1:39 am

I had a similar situation. A fraudulent tracking # that ebay immediately recognized as such once I filed a claim but in some of these circumstances it is ebay that has to issue the refund , not the seller. Ebay is getting shellaced by Amazon already so they can't afford to be refunding out of operating expenses. Whatever one thinks of ebay based on a small sample of transactions ; I have had many, many, many and when it comes to a venue with which to access n.o.s., used or vintage parts : ebay is unparalelled .In both microscopes and musical instruments that I also dabble in. I would have been lost without it.

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Re: Advice On Buying Parts On eBay

#22 Post by dtsh » Thu May 12, 2022 5:00 am

PeteM wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 11:41 pm
It was never clear to me is how the fraudulent Ebay seller hacked or stole a list of tracking numbers. Inside job in cahoots with a postal employee? Hacked a database - probably not all that secure in the early days of USPS tracking? Found some prolific shipper and got a list of their tracking numbers? Or?? In any case, Ebay got my money back and the seller disappeared from the site.
I don't believe they'r random, so if that's true then it would just be a matter of a script making a number of queries against the USPS tracking API until you get one that's close enough.

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Re: Advice On Buying Parts On eBay

#23 Post by PeteM » Thu May 12, 2022 6:09 am

That makes sense. Thanks.

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Re: Advice On Buying Parts On eBay

#24 Post by jfiresto » Thu May 12, 2022 8:43 am

Rich Field wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 8:25 pm
... Good product photos go a long way in instilling trust and when they're deliberately missing, it feels like the reseller is either hiding something or covering their ass for a potential problem after the sale....
Another type of listing to watch out for has an almost entirely good set of photos, but with one being (circle all that apply), markedly smaller, underexposed, overexposed, more sharply lit, more diffusely lit, lit from an extreme angle, or taken with a shallower depth of field. A few months back, I had two ebay sellers, on two different continents and within a couple days of each other, relist a couple, used items that I had bought about half a year apart – and had returned as not as described. Both had used my protests to "refine" their listings.
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