Anti-Static for lenses.

[apochronaut]

Cleaning microscope glass is tricky sometimes because of static. Even compressed air doesn't deal with many stubborn hitchhikers. Has anyone used an ion beam anti-static gun ? Many audiophiles use and swear by them for cds and vinyl records.

[bkt]

Hi,

I wouldn't trust at all audiophiles who clean their CDs. That technology has aged out years ago, as most CDs should have. CDs live expectation being limited to some 10 years only, then they end oxidized, if not scratched. CDs (a nice solution of the 80s, but without any checksum neither any software correction) have aged out, especially since loose-less file formats like FLACs are available.

Ion gun could be an option for vinyls? Listen to a FLAC, then to a vinyl rip to FLAC format: you will notice the typical noise difference... Brings you back to the 70 or 60s.

Some hair driers (blowing air) efficiently add ions. They seem cheaper than ion guns.

About dust, is it easy to take apart and to remove dust inside microscope objectives? Or is this a definite no go?

[apochronaut]

Objectives need be taken apart only if there is de-lamination of cemented lenses or oil seepage into them. Possibly too, if you happen to drop one in your hot chocolate or just as you set your prize red 60MM parfocal giant upside down on the bench, your Chihuahua mistakes it for a fire hydrant. Alignment in their assembly is a critical step in having them meet specification, so their disassembly, especially those of high precision and value should preferably be undertaken by those familiar with the terrain.
The static I refer to is encountered during cleaning or adjusting of heads, and other components such as the illumination pathways, occasionally eyepieces but also lensed systems in general. Objectives too, once apart. Value judgements of audiophiles or their interests aside, if such anti-static ion generators work to reduce the level of clinging particles on optics, one might be useful because it sometimes requires a certain amount of use of another microscope to pick off particles individually.
I guess the hair dryer would have to be an ionic type? Don't have it and I'm guessing one would be about the same price or more than an ion gun. The ion guns produce both positive and negative ions, temporarily neutralizing the charge.

[bkt]

I know the hair dryer I have works. Differently. For hairs. Wasn't that expensive or I wouldn't have bought it. Bought it as a drier. Never though so far to use it to blow away dust...

[BramHuntingNematodes]

I seem to recall one of the diatomists here using that anti static gun to help when positioning things.

[apochronaut]

Thanks. Seems like it could be possibly of value.

[Chas]

Maybe this is wrong; but I think that the antistatic guns for records try to neutralise the charge on the vinyl.
The charge on glass seems to be of the opposite polarity to PVC;

tribolectric series.jpg (55.12 KiB) Viewed 1817 times

So it might have exactly the wrong effect.

[apochronaut]

They do both apparently. The lever or trigger produces a positive polarity on the in stroke followed by a negative polarity on the return stroke., by compressing Piezo-electric crystals. Their origin goes back to their use in darkrooms. Hair dryers go back to their use in bathrooms. I think they would only work on ciliates.

[Chas]

There are cheap (think school demo) electrostatic charge indicators, I dug one out and the charge on a record is very definitely negative, I tried it on some glass (eyepieces and a petri dish lid) I couldnt pick up anything.
It might be the damp english climate and the adjacent metal parts thats causing the charge to bleed away from the field lenses et al ... and I would have thought that breathing on glass components as you clean them might leak away any charge.
Maybe the surface the microscope is sitting on is charged (??)

[apochronaut]

I've cleaned a lot of lenses. Seems that particles do cling with a charge. A blower or even compressed air won't remove some. I eventually get them clean but I have a feeling a discharge might help. It's multiple locations.

[bkt]

A blower or even compressed air won't remove some.

The best I've found for photo optics seems now sold close to hair driers... sorry for this... sold as retractable brushes for makeup. One of my preferred accessory in my photo bag. Most or all dust particles quickly getting away. As it is retractable, it stays clean. The size of a lipstick, fits in any pocket. Very useful before using any cloth or paper cleaning material that may scratch a lens if particles are present.

Mine was sold by a photo shop, has very long and soft hairs.

[bkt]

and I would have thought that breathing on glass components as you clean them might leak away any charge.

Remembers me the Nikon drama of some 10 years ago. "This isn't recommended for our most new and advanced coating methods", they told

Nikon specifically recommends not breathing on the glass elements to clean them as harmful acids in the breath can damage the coatings on the glass.

7 déc. 2012 https://photo.stackexchange.com/questio ... d-clean-it

[apochronaut]

A blower or even compressed air won't remove some.

The best I've found for photo optics seems now sold close to hair driers... sorry for this... sold as retractable brushes for makeup. One of my preferred accessory in my photo bag. Most or all dust particles quickly getting away. As it is retractable, it stays clean. The size of a lipstick, fits in any pocket. Very useful before using any cloth or paper cleaning material that may scratch a lens if particles are present.

Mine was sold by a photo shop, has very long and soft hairs.

I'm talking about cleaning tiny internal components inside objectives, pre-assembly , not the outside of photo lenses. It needs to be done now, not when I notice that I missed some and go back for a re-do . Yes, I can use ultra fine, super clean sable brushes and pick off every fleck under a stereo microscope but what I'm really looking for is some technique of lowering the charge so that a clean brush or blower bulb would be more effective. There is clearly a charge because certain bits of adherent particles are more adherent than others.

[bkt]

DSLR sensors are cleaned using single use wet swabs... Single use: one pass shall take everything away. No other pass using the same swab or it would spread again some particles. Same technique could be used for lenses or other sensitive tiny parts?

[apochronaut]

Yes but no. That is obviously a technique used and it has to be done under magnification but there is no such possibility to then install the lens and seal out particles until the next time the lens is conveniently removed and if contamination of the sensor occurs, easily recleaned. . Assembly of an objective takes many steps and frequent partial disassembly in order to perform centering and more often than not spherical aberration shimming. Additionally, many surfaces are either concave or convex, so keeping charged particles out of the immediate environment would be helpful to say the least. Coated lenses seem to be a bigger problem.
A filter wall would possibly help or a kind of laminar cabinet but I guess I am looking for a more portable assistant.

[bkt]

I am looking for a more portable assistant.

Did you investigate your environment, the desk, you shoes, your clothes, your chair, your carpet? Some generate a lot of ESD, just by moving around.

The more basic assistant could be an ESD workplace pad, with pad grounding plus the wrist band. They do help a lot, are mandatory for complex and costly electronic hardware. Parts ant tools being always either in ESD bags or on the pad.

[apochronaut]

Of course it is the environment.

[bkt]

Of course it is the environment.

Then you may test with such a pad. The wrist band not being a basic wire, shall contain a resistor to evacuate charges, should also be replaced once defective. And find some ESD bags for your parts and tools you handle on it. Won't be lost, should be mandatory if ever you buy a ion gun.

[bkt]

Some details about such wrist bands, not a wire, which might be dangerous for electronic engineers, should not happen with lenses. But the resistor could at some point end damaged:

A good wrist strap system has a large resistance between the skin contact and ground. Typically this is 1 MΩ, which is relatively large. This large resistance is there for your safety, in case an error somewhere connects you to a hazardous voltage. Even this high resistance is sufficient for protecting your devices from ESD. https://electronics.stackexchange.com/q ... wrist-band

[Adam Long]

My drum scanner came with a large brush labelled as anti-static. I'll look up the make when I get home.

It appears to be made of animal hair. It does seem to work, but the drums are acrylic so no guarantee it'll work on glass.

[PeteM]

I believe the old photo/film anti-static brushes had a "lightly" radioactive element incorporated with the hairs to produce ions. Not sure if they're still available today.

All the hip kids today use muons . . .

[bkt]

It won't be so easy if the problem is "the environment". I've read a lens only could be discharged immerging it in liquids. But later, it could quickly be charged again by lens and tools manipulations.

Which is why I suggested to use an ESD desk pad and a wrist band. Plus ESD bags. At least that environment and tools plus the hands would be almost equipotential.

Clothes, chair (some synthetics produce high charges by short friction with clothes) and shoes (the soles, depending on any carpet material) could also be checked or changed for the occasion, to lower the risks.

[Adam Long]

I believe the old photo/film anti-static brushes had a "lightly" radioactive element incorporated with the hairs to produce ions. Not sure if they're still available today.

Wow I had no idea! Just need to find someone with a geiger counter now...

[PeteM]

Wow I had no idea! I just need to find someone with a Geiger counter now...

Here's a result from a quick Google search: https://orau.org/health-physics-museum/ ... ators.html

Apparently, polonium-210 has a half-life of 138 days. If your brush is as old as the one I had 50 or so years ago, you might need a very sensitive Geiger counter to sense what's left after over one hundred half-lives have expired.

Tritium is what's now used (instead of radium) for glow-in-the-dark watch numerals. With a half-life of 12+ years you should still be seeing those numbers 12-24-probably-36 years later.

On the other hand, much larger and freshly radioactive doses of polonium-210 are apparently what Putin has been using to kill dissidents abroad. All the better if it rapidly decays.

[bkt]

Seems to be used a lot in industry, for clean rooms, like for semiconductors (no dust, no ESD). I found not much about the theory, so far, neither any DIY option. DIY means dealing with high voltages to generate charges...

Usual HV generators kits or DIY are DC, not AC.

This is maybe what does the gun apochronaut found: "Most antistatic guns use a method called the corona discharge type. Corona discharge is a weak electrical discharge that occurs at the tip of a metal needle when a high voltage is applied to it. This discharge ionizes some of the air near the needle, and the charged object is neutralized when ions with opposite positive and negative charges come into contact with it."



apochronaut is this what you are looking for?

Development of a Corona Discharge Ionizer Utilizing High-Voltage AC Power Supply Driven by PWM Inverter for Highly Efficient Electrostatic Elimination

Abstract

The corona discharge ionizer has been widely used to eliminate electrostatic charges on insulators in a variety of manufacturing industries for the prevention of electrostatic discharge (ESD) problems. High-speed electrostatic elimination is conventionally required for ionizer performance. Because of the high sensitivity of recent electronic devices to ESD damage, an extremely low-offset voltage (ion balance) is required for the performance of electrostatic eliminators. Long-term performance stability is required to maintain the quality of the products, but the short cleaning interval of the unit increases the operating cost. The efficiency is also affected by the waveform of the applied voltage. The optimization of the applied voltage is an important factor in achieving long-term performance stability. In this study, an intermittent pulse voltage AC power supply was developed to achieve a highly efficient electrostatic elimination with long-term stability high-speed electrostatic elimination and an excellent ion balance.



The very common air ionizers only generate negative ions:

[bkt]

apochronaut if you believe the gun you found is an option, go for it. Add a desk pad plus a wrist band, get some ESD bags for tools and parts.

An optimal pulsed AC corona generator would be easy to build. Looking for a adequate pulse transformer, I quickly found a "High Voltage Stun Gun Transformer KIT". That clearly adds "no go"

[bkt]

I finally found some options. Keywords for search engines being "ESD ionizer".

Some being very cheap, but I suspect those could be common ozone / negative ions generators only.

That is a promotional video, shows the effect, shows also how to work with an ESD desk pad + wrist band: