Forgive me if I try to manipulate you, a little!!
- ebenbildmicroscopy
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:57 pm
Forgive me if I try to manipulate you, a little!!
One of my favorite Germans has just made a French connection...
I just acquired this De Fonbrune micromanipulator, having used one extensively in the mycology lab of the late James F. Wilson back in the late 80s. I will be using this one in conjunction with a Leitz mechanical micromanipulator. The plus of these hydraulic systems is that you can remotely control the micro tools. Spending hours at one of these setups can lead to fatigue and something as simple as where the joystick is can make a huge difference in comfort over time.
This is one of the later De Fonbrunes, the earlier models featured plated canister style sheaths over the master cylinders that added a somewhat beefier and more elegant appearance. Shown also is one of my 3 Leitz Laborlux IIs. This one is going to get a complete, museum quality airbrush paint restoration. The scope, unusually, sports a full sized later model Ortholux I stage - which I love - it's like working on the deck of an aircraft carrier! I'm really looking forward to playing with this setup and will hopefully have more posting content soon!!
JeffO, ebenbildmicroscopy
I just acquired this De Fonbrune micromanipulator, having used one extensively in the mycology lab of the late James F. Wilson back in the late 80s. I will be using this one in conjunction with a Leitz mechanical micromanipulator. The plus of these hydraulic systems is that you can remotely control the micro tools. Spending hours at one of these setups can lead to fatigue and something as simple as where the joystick is can make a huge difference in comfort over time.
This is one of the later De Fonbrunes, the earlier models featured plated canister style sheaths over the master cylinders that added a somewhat beefier and more elegant appearance. Shown also is one of my 3 Leitz Laborlux IIs. This one is going to get a complete, museum quality airbrush paint restoration. The scope, unusually, sports a full sized later model Ortholux I stage - which I love - it's like working on the deck of an aircraft carrier! I'm really looking forward to playing with this setup and will hopefully have more posting content soon!!
JeffO, ebenbildmicroscopy
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JeffO, aka "Ortho amore"
Leitz Ortholux I
Leitz Orthoplan
Leitz Macro-Dia Device
Zeiss GFL
Zeiss Standard
Zeiss Photomicroscope III
Zeiss OPMI 6S
B&L Stereozoom and Balplan
Leitz Ortholux I
Leitz Orthoplan
Leitz Macro-Dia Device
Zeiss GFL
Zeiss Standard
Zeiss Photomicroscope III
Zeiss OPMI 6S
B&L Stereozoom and Balplan
Re: Forgive me if I try to manipulate you, a little!!
That is one cool looking instrument!
Any chance of a video showing its movement?
Any chance of a video showing its movement?
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
- ebenbildmicroscopy
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:57 pm
Re: Forgive me if I try to manipulate you, a little!!
THANK YOU!! When I have described these manipulators to people who are non-microscopists, I've always started with, "Imagine if Darth Vader had an Atari game system, the De Fonbrune would be his joystick!!"75RR wrote:That is one cool looking instrument!
Any chance of a video showing its movement?
You'll have to be patient with me making a video... I'm just learning how on a Canon Rebel T3i... I'm in the process of setting up a very nice YouTube studio especially dedicated to microscopy in addition to featuring repair and machining videos related to microscope repair - (I'm a machinist/optical instrument repairman).
JeffO
JeffO, aka "Ortho amore"
Leitz Ortholux I
Leitz Orthoplan
Leitz Macro-Dia Device
Zeiss GFL
Zeiss Standard
Zeiss Photomicroscope III
Zeiss OPMI 6S
B&L Stereozoom and Balplan
Leitz Ortholux I
Leitz Orthoplan
Leitz Macro-Dia Device
Zeiss GFL
Zeiss Standard
Zeiss Photomicroscope III
Zeiss OPMI 6S
B&L Stereozoom and Balplan
- ebenbildmicroscopy
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:57 pm
Re: Forgive me if I try to manipulate you, a little!!
Here's a few more close-ups of the engraving, the master cylinders, and the slave diaphragms/cylinders. That's gotta be hand engraving.
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- DeFonbrune2.jpg (86.91 KiB) Viewed 14953 times
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- DeFonbrune3.jpg (100.85 KiB) Viewed 14953 times
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- DeFonbrune4.jpg (108.47 KiB) Viewed 14953 times
JeffO, aka "Ortho amore"
Leitz Ortholux I
Leitz Orthoplan
Leitz Macro-Dia Device
Zeiss GFL
Zeiss Standard
Zeiss Photomicroscope III
Zeiss OPMI 6S
B&L Stereozoom and Balplan
Leitz Ortholux I
Leitz Orthoplan
Leitz Macro-Dia Device
Zeiss GFL
Zeiss Standard
Zeiss Photomicroscope III
Zeiss OPMI 6S
B&L Stereozoom and Balplan
Re: Forgive me if I try to manipulate you, a little!!
A wonderful acquisition, JeffO
... and it looks to be in fantastic condition.
MichaelG.
.
.
Edit: Here is a brief biography of our hero
https://webext.pasteur.fr/archives/fnb0.html
DeepL (recently mentioned on this forum) does a creditable job of translating this to English
https://www.deepl.com/translate
... and it looks to be in fantastic condition.
MichaelG.
.
.
Edit: Here is a brief biography of our hero
https://webext.pasteur.fr/archives/fnb0.html
DeepL (recently mentioned on this forum) does a creditable job of translating this to English
https://www.deepl.com/translate
Too many 'projects'
Re: Forgive me if I try to manipulate you, a little!!
Hi JeffO,
thank you for presenting this rare apparatus! Now I know the background the inventors of the first computer games must have had!
Bob
thank you for presenting this rare apparatus! Now I know the background the inventors of the first computer games must have had!
Bob
Re: Forgive me if I try to manipulate you, a little!!
That's very interesting, what does it use for the hydraulics, water, oil, air?
Re: Forgive me if I try to manipulate you, a little!!
That is machine engraving... Engraving machines have been produced for several hundred years....
- ebenbildmicroscopy
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:57 pm
Re: Forgive me if I try to manipulate you, a little!!
That may be machine engraving to drive the graver but it is not following a template. I ran a Deckel G1L German engraving pantograph in the microscope dept of Carolina Biological for a couple of years, and we even had the cylinder jig that would allow engraving over the barrel of an objective or the little hand-held, plated microtomes the master machinist made in house.billbillt wrote:That is machine engraving... Engraving machines have been produced for several hundred years....
The reason I believe this engraving to be free form is because the letters are not consistent - just like hand writing.
JeffO, aka "Ortho amore"
Leitz Ortholux I
Leitz Orthoplan
Leitz Macro-Dia Device
Zeiss GFL
Zeiss Standard
Zeiss Photomicroscope III
Zeiss OPMI 6S
B&L Stereozoom and Balplan
Leitz Ortholux I
Leitz Orthoplan
Leitz Macro-Dia Device
Zeiss GFL
Zeiss Standard
Zeiss Photomicroscope III
Zeiss OPMI 6S
B&L Stereozoom and Balplan
- ebenbildmicroscopy
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:57 pm
Re: Forgive me if I try to manipulate you, a little!!
It uses a clear oil that, to me, seems to be common mineral oil. The cylinders are sealed by black (I'm assuming) rubber O-rings so, the oil may not be petroleum based. This setup came from an estate so I'm also assuming it's probably been in the system for years. I'm anxious to set up a dial indicator and a stage micrometer to measure what the ratio of movement is.Bryan wrote:That's very interesting, what does it use for the hydraulics, water, oil, air?
JeffO, aka "Ortho amore"
Leitz Ortholux I
Leitz Orthoplan
Leitz Macro-Dia Device
Zeiss GFL
Zeiss Standard
Zeiss Photomicroscope III
Zeiss OPMI 6S
B&L Stereozoom and Balplan
Leitz Ortholux I
Leitz Orthoplan
Leitz Macro-Dia Device
Zeiss GFL
Zeiss Standard
Zeiss Photomicroscope III
Zeiss OPMI 6S
B&L Stereozoom and Balplan
Re: Forgive me if I try to manipulate you, a little!!
Quite possible, but some numbers/letters are too perfect...ebenbildmicroscopy wrote:That may be machine engraving to drive the graver but it is not following a template. I ran a Deckel G1L German engraving pantograph in the microscope dept of Carolina Biological for a couple of years, and we even had the cylinder jig that would allow engraving over the barrel of an objective or the little hand-held, plated microtomes the master machinist made in house.billbillt wrote:That is machine engraving... Engraving machines have been produced for several hundred years....
The reason I believe this engraving to be free form is because the letters are not consistent - just like hand writing.
BillT
Re: Forgive me if I try to manipulate you, a little!!
It looks like hand engraving to me ... but surely there is an easy way for a microscopist to check.billbillt wrote:Quite possible, but some numbers/letters are too perfect...ebenbildmicroscopy wrote:That may be machine engraving to drive the graver but it is not following a template. I ran a Deckel G1L German engraving pantograph in the microscope dept of Carolina Biological for a couple of years, and we even had the cylinder jig that would allow engraving over the barrel of an objective or the little hand-held, plated microtomes the master machinist made in house.billbillt wrote:That is machine engraving... Engraving machines have been produced for several hundred years....
The reason I believe this engraving to be free form is because the letters are not consistent - just like hand writing.
BillT
Let's see some detail photos please JeffO.
MichaelG.
Too many 'projects'
Re: Forgive me if I try to manipulate you, a little!!
I downloaded one of the pics and zoomed in on the numbers... some look too perfect to be done by hand,,, I have also been involved with machine engraving....MichaelG. wrote:It looks like hand engraving to me ... but surely there is an easy way for a microscopist to check.billbillt wrote:Quite possible, but some numbers/letters are too perfect...ebenbildmicroscopy wrote:
That may be machine engraving to drive the graver but it is not following a template. I ran a Deckel G1L German engraving pantograph in the microscope dept of Carolina Biological for a couple of years, and we even had the cylinder jig that would allow engraving over the barrel of an objective or the little hand-held, plated microtomes the master machinist made in house.
The reason I believe this engraving to be free form is because the letters are not consistent - just like hand writing.
BillT
Let's see some detail photos please JeffO.
MichaelG.
Re: Forgive me if I try to manipulate you, a little!!
Sorry ... I evidently didn't make myself clear: I was hoping that JeffO might take a full frame image of one character, so that we could see the tool marks.billbillt wrote:I downloaded one of the pics and zoomed in on the numbers... some look too perfect to be done by hand,,, I have also been involved with machine engraving....
MichaelG.
Too many 'projects'
Re: Forgive me if I try to manipulate you, a little!!
I UNDERSTAND.. I WAS JUST POSTING WHAT I HAD DONE....MichaelG. wrote:Sorry ... I evidently didn't make myself clear: I was hoping that JeffO might take a full frame image of one character, so that we could see the tool marks.billbillt wrote:I downloaded one of the pics and zoomed in on the numbers... some look too perfect to be done by hand,,, I have also been involved with machine engraving....
MichaelG.
- ebenbildmicroscopy
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:57 pm
Re: Forgive me if I try to manipulate you, a little!!
I've been looking for an excuse to try and mate my Canon DSLR with the big Zeiss surgical microscope Stemi 6S out in the machine shop - this may be a good time to see if I've got an adapter that'll do it. The Zeiss has a long working distance as well as a great depth of field for detail work.
I keep comparing the "stumps" of the number 4 and the "front legs" of the letter R... why I think it resembles very fine hand engraving.
Lemme see what I can rig up out on the repair bench with the Zeiss
JeffO, ebenbildmicroscopy
I keep comparing the "stumps" of the number 4 and the "front legs" of the letter R... why I think it resembles very fine hand engraving.
Lemme see what I can rig up out on the repair bench with the Zeiss
JeffO, ebenbildmicroscopy
JeffO, aka "Ortho amore"
Leitz Ortholux I
Leitz Orthoplan
Leitz Macro-Dia Device
Zeiss GFL
Zeiss Standard
Zeiss Photomicroscope III
Zeiss OPMI 6S
B&L Stereozoom and Balplan
Leitz Ortholux I
Leitz Orthoplan
Leitz Macro-Dia Device
Zeiss GFL
Zeiss Standard
Zeiss Photomicroscope III
Zeiss OPMI 6S
B&L Stereozoom and Balplan
Re: Forgive me if I try to manipulate you, a little!!
The "Ms" appear to be of different widths and the details at the tops of the "Ms" and the "Ns" do not appear consistent to me. Still it is pretty perfect looking overall. Either way, it is a nice machine. Any idea what the mycology lab was using it for? Professional interest on my part.
mnMYCO
mnMYCO
- ebenbildmicroscopy
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:57 pm
Re: Forgive me if I try to manipulate you, a little!!
I was a biology undergraduate working in the lab of James F. Wilson back in 1989. Wilson had received his PhD from Stanford University in the mid 1960s having been a student of the 1958 Nobel laureate, Edward Tatum who, along with George Beadle and Joshua Lederberg, received the Nobel prize for Medicine and Physiology for their work, in short, proving that chromosomes control chemical events in cells - in this case - those of the orange bread mold, Neurospora crassa.mnmyco wrote:The "Ms" appear to be of different widths and the details at the tops of the "Ms" and the "Ns" do not appear consistent to me. Still it is pretty perfect looking overall. Either way, it is a nice machine. Any idea what the mycology lab was using it for? Professional interest on my part.
mnMYCO
Dr. Wilson studied non-mating types (ie, those not occurring in nature) by inducing them to occur through the use of micro-injection. Neurospora vegetative hyphae are very similar to how a bamboo shoot grows, with septate walls discerning the cells. We would use the de Fonbrune to pierce the outer hyphae, go through a naturally occurring pore in the center of the septa into the next cell over, inject the nuclear material, and then remove the glass needle that was thinner than a human hair. The sudden loss of pressure in the initial injection site would cause a crystal to plug the pore and we would then grow up the mold on agar and subject subsequent "generations" to various nutritional deficiencies to demonstrate how the genes "expressed". It was fascinating, but very obscure, work. Wilson had made his own micro-forge for making the needles and we did the injection work under an old B&L scope that had been modified in California. *This* de Fonbrune in my posting is actually an Ebay purchase - I've been looking for one for several years. I don't know what became of Wilson's - he died, at 93, several years ago. His was the older more ornate version that had a beautiful greenish, hammertone paint finish.
JeffO, aka "Ortho amore"
Leitz Ortholux I
Leitz Orthoplan
Leitz Macro-Dia Device
Zeiss GFL
Zeiss Standard
Zeiss Photomicroscope III
Zeiss OPMI 6S
B&L Stereozoom and Balplan
Leitz Ortholux I
Leitz Orthoplan
Leitz Macro-Dia Device
Zeiss GFL
Zeiss Standard
Zeiss Photomicroscope III
Zeiss OPMI 6S
B&L Stereozoom and Balplan
Re: Forgive me if I try to manipulate you, a little!!
Thanks JeffO ... That should be an interesting forensic exercise [whatever the result]ebenbildmicroscopy wrote:I've been looking for an excuse to try and mate my Canon DSLR with the big Zeiss surgical microscope Stemi 6S out in the machine shop - this may be a good time to see if I've got an adapter that'll do it. The Zeiss has a long working distance as well as a great depth of field for detail work.
I keep comparing the "stumps" of the number 4 and the "front legs" of the letter R... why I think it resembles very fine hand engraving.
Lemme see what I can rig up out on the repair bench with the Zeiss
JeffO, ebenbildmicroscopy
MichaelG.
.
.
P.S. ... I found this last night: http://www.cablesfarm.co.uk/category/engraving/
... It's amazing what was, and is, possible !
Too many 'projects'
Re: Forgive me if I try to manipulate you, a little!!
Interesting work. I have a PhD in mycology, and it is always nice to find one of the few people who have even worked in a mycology lab. My work was one molecular ecology and systematics (building species trees). I did some work as a post-doc on growing shiitakes for sequencing their genomes and the RNAs expressed as we grew them. That work is pretty close to what you have described, though the methods used are very different the goals are similar.ebenbildmicroscopy wrote:I was a biology undergraduate working in the lab of James F. Wilson back in 1989. Wilson had received his PhD from Stanford University in the mid 1960s having been a student of the 1958 Nobel laureate, Edward Tatum who, along with George Beadle and Joshua Lederberg, received the Nobel prize for Medicine and Physiology for their work, in short, proving that chromosomes control chemical events in cells - in this case - those of the orange bread mold, Neurospora crassa.mnmyco wrote:The "Ms" appear to be of different widths and the details at the tops of the "Ms" and the "Ns" do not appear consistent to me. Still it is pretty perfect looking overall. Either way, it is a nice machine. Any idea what the mycology lab was using it for? Professional interest on my part.
mnMYCO
Dr. Wilson studied non-mating types (ie, those not occurring in nature) by inducing them to occur through the use of micro-injection. Neurospora vegetative hyphae are very similar to how a bamboo shoot grows, with septate walls discerning the cells. We would use the de Fonbrune to pierce the outer hyphae, go through a naturally occurring pore in the center of the septa into the next cell over, inject the nuclear material, and then remove the glass needle that was thinner than a human hair. The sudden loss of pressure in the initial injection site would cause a crystal to plug the pore and we would then grow up the mold on agar and subject subsequent "generations" to various nutritional deficiencies to demonstrate how the genes "expressed". It was fascinating, but very obscure, work. Wilson had made his own micro-forge for making the needles and we did the injection work under an old B&L scope that had been modified in California. *This* de Fonbrune in my posting is actually an Ebay purchase - I've been looking for one for several years. I don't know what became of Wilson's - he died, at 93, several years ago. His was the older more ornate version that had a beautiful greenish, hammertone paint finish.
mnmyco
Re: Forgive me if I try to manipulate you, a little!!
Thanks for sharing this beautiful stand and your micromanipulator purchase, Jeff O. ( the eBay price points for these micromanipulators has kept me at bay for years...I do have a Nikon micromanipulator microscope stage...same oil hydraulics...if I dig out it's manual..it may state the hydraulic fluid used.).
I especially appreciate ( I,m sure all forum folk do as well!) your descirpition of your class days mycologic lab research activities, thank you, thank you for taking the time to share this. So good to hear your recollections of your Professor and his work. I had an undergrad course and the test was:" Genetics", by Strickland?? (1972 my course)...Nerospora illustrations, the manipulations of it's spores, the inferences from this molds biology, and your cited Profs name and work...filled a few dense chapters of the Strikland text.
Yours hands on genetic work with microscope and micromanipulator quite profound and fascinating...bravo post, Jeff O. BTW...when I hold a hand lens up to my computer screen, quite a few of the engraved letters have different terminal endings...I'm talking the same alphabet letter..in the same string of engraved characters...my sense is it's high craftmanship free form hand generated engraving.
Wonderful instruments you showcase here, Jeff O. Charlie Guevara, finger lakes/US
I especially appreciate ( I,m sure all forum folk do as well!) your descirpition of your class days mycologic lab research activities, thank you, thank you for taking the time to share this. So good to hear your recollections of your Professor and his work. I had an undergrad course and the test was:" Genetics", by Strickland?? (1972 my course)...Nerospora illustrations, the manipulations of it's spores, the inferences from this molds biology, and your cited Profs name and work...filled a few dense chapters of the Strikland text.
Yours hands on genetic work with microscope and micromanipulator quite profound and fascinating...bravo post, Jeff O. BTW...when I hold a hand lens up to my computer screen, quite a few of the engraved letters have different terminal endings...I'm talking the same alphabet letter..in the same string of engraved characters...my sense is it's high craftmanship free form hand generated engraving.
Wonderful instruments you showcase here, Jeff O. Charlie Guevara, finger lakes/US
Re: Forgive me if I try to manipulate you, a little!!
Hi JeffO,
these engravings are really nice! To me they look handmade by somebody who did this regularly. I know the Deckel engraving machines, but they were milling the material away. This looks as if cut with an engraving chisel to me. Have there ever been machines that worked with a pushed chisel?
On old technical drawings one sometimes finds very precise "Normschrift" written by hand. Not as even as written with with letter templates, but much nicer to look at.
Bob
these engravings are really nice! To me they look handmade by somebody who did this regularly. I know the Deckel engraving machines, but they were milling the material away. This looks as if cut with an engraving chisel to me. Have there ever been machines that worked with a pushed chisel?
On old technical drawings one sometimes finds very precise "Normschrift" written by hand. Not as even as written with with letter templates, but much nicer to look at.
Bob
- ebenbildmicroscopy
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:57 pm
Re: Forgive me if I try to manipulate you, a little!!
YESSSS! They're definitely hand engraved! And your description of "milling" material out is PRECISELY what the pantographs do! In fact, in a pinch, they can be adapted to do light milling when no mill is present - had to do it once!MicroBob wrote:Hi JeffO,
these engravings are really nice! To me they look handmade by somebody who did this regularly. I know the Deckel engraving machines, but they were milling the material away. This looks as if cut with an engraving chisel to me. Have there ever been machines that worked with a pushed chisel?
On old technical drawings one sometimes finds very precise "Normschrift" written by hand. Not as even as written with with letter templates, but much nicer to look at.
Bob
JeffO, aka "Ortho amore"
Leitz Ortholux I
Leitz Orthoplan
Leitz Macro-Dia Device
Zeiss GFL
Zeiss Standard
Zeiss Photomicroscope III
Zeiss OPMI 6S
B&L Stereozoom and Balplan
Leitz Ortholux I
Leitz Orthoplan
Leitz Macro-Dia Device
Zeiss GFL
Zeiss Standard
Zeiss Photomicroscope III
Zeiss OPMI 6S
B&L Stereozoom and Balplan
- ebenbildmicroscopy
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:57 pm
Re: Forgive me if I try to manipulate you, a little!!
GUYS! I am humbled by your responses to my post... I have been, through no credit of my own, fortunate to learn from some mighty giants of microscopy and machining and hope to share more of those experiences
JeffO, aka "Ortho amore"
Leitz Ortholux I
Leitz Orthoplan
Leitz Macro-Dia Device
Zeiss GFL
Zeiss Standard
Zeiss Photomicroscope III
Zeiss OPMI 6S
B&L Stereozoom and Balplan
Leitz Ortholux I
Leitz Orthoplan
Leitz Macro-Dia Device
Zeiss GFL
Zeiss Standard
Zeiss Photomicroscope III
Zeiss OPMI 6S
B&L Stereozoom and Balplan