Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
One of the quaint peculiarities of Zeiss microscopes is the thinness of the screw slots. As everyone knows a good slot fit is fundamental if damage is to be avoided.
To this end I purchased a set of 8 Wiha Slotted Precision screwdrivers a while back.
Now they are very nice and I am happy with them but the fit is not ideal.
By this I mean that to match the slot I have to use a narrower blade than the screw merits, losing torque and potentially damaging both screw and screwdriver, although fortunately that has not happened yet.
I have therefore been looking for a make of screwdriver that specifies the thickness of the blade, which would allow not only a correct slot fit but also the full use of the width of the screw.
So far no luck, although I am sure there is one, probably made for clockmakers but they do not appear to be sold on either amazon nor ebay.
Was anyone fortunate enough to find one?
One of the quaint peculiarities of Zeiss microscopes is the thinness of the screw slots. As everyone knows a good slot fit is fundamental if damage is to be avoided.
To this end I purchased a set of 8 Wiha Slotted Precision screwdrivers a while back.
Now they are very nice and I am happy with them but the fit is not ideal.
By this I mean that to match the slot I have to use a narrower blade than the screw merits, losing torque and potentially damaging both screw and screwdriver, although fortunately that has not happened yet.
I have therefore been looking for a make of screwdriver that specifies the thickness of the blade, which would allow not only a correct slot fit but also the full use of the width of the screw.
So far no luck, although I am sure there is one, probably made for clockmakers but they do not appear to be sold on either amazon nor ebay.
Was anyone fortunate enough to find one?
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Re: Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
These thin blades are damaged easily so you need a bench grinder anyway.
Grinding screw driver tips is a nice beginner training task by the way.
Bob
Grinding screw driver tips is a nice beginner training task by the way.
Bob
Re: Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
Hi Bob,
I suppose the tips of these quality screwdrivers such as the Wiha (I have some too) or Wera are made of hardened steel. Will they withstand grinding?
I suppose the tips of these quality screwdrivers such as the Wiha (I have some too) or Wera are made of hardened steel. Will they withstand grinding?
Re: Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
Looking at watch maker sites it would seem standard to provide extra blades with their screwdrivers (blades are held on to the handle with a screw)
The expensive part is the handle apparently.
With changeable blades grinding makes sense.
Still I think I would prefer a more normal arrangement with standard screwdrivers with slightly thinner blades.
https://www.eternaltools.com/blog/compl ... rewdrivers
The expensive part is the handle apparently.
With changeable blades grinding makes sense.
Still I think I would prefer a more normal arrangement with standard screwdrivers with slightly thinner blades.
https://www.eternaltools.com/blog/compl ... rewdrivers
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Re: Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
Hi 75RR,
Many years ago I was told, by a Zeiss agent who had visited the Zeiss factory, that the Zeiss workers make their own screwdrivers using sword steel for the blades. That being the case I doubt you will find a commercial equivalent. Best find some tough steel and start making your own.
Hope this helps.
Peter.
Many years ago I was told, by a Zeiss agent who had visited the Zeiss factory, that the Zeiss workers make their own screwdrivers using sword steel for the blades. That being the case I doubt you will find a commercial equivalent. Best find some tough steel and start making your own.
Hope this helps.
Peter.
Re: Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
Thanks Peter. Interesting story - Wonder if that holds true for the Zeiss repair facilities abroad. Zeiss had sales offices that would also service their microscopes in dozens of countries.Peter wrote:Hi 75RR,
Many years ago I was told, by a Zeiss agent who had visited the Zeiss factory, that the Zeiss workers make their own screwdrivers using sword steel for the blades. That being the case I doubt you will find a commercial equivalent. Best find some tough steel and start making your own.
Hope this helps.
Peter.
One would think that Zeiss would have got around to providing them with all the right tools, but then if made in-house, they would not be available to the public.
Does that mean that Zeiss made their own screws?
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Re: Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
If you have some time on your hands, you can put some medium grit sandpaper on a flat surface and rub the blades across it, switching sides frequently. Then switch to fine grit paper to get a better finish. This takes a while, but to me is a bit more controllable than a bench grinder, which works pretty fast with small screwdriver blades.
Rick
A/O 10 Series Microstar
A/O 4 Series Microstar
A/O 4 Series Phasestar
A/O 4 Series Apostar
A/O Cycloptic Stereo
Several old monocular scopes in more or less decrepit but usable condition
A/O 10 Series Microstar
A/O 4 Series Microstar
A/O 4 Series Phasestar
A/O 4 Series Apostar
A/O Cycloptic Stereo
Several old monocular scopes in more or less decrepit but usable condition
Re: Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
I have no idea but I would say probably.75RR wrote:
Does that mean that Zeiss made their own screws?
Peter.
Re: Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
Thanks Peter, would be nice if someone were able to confirm that.I have no idea but I would say probably.
Agree that a bench grinder would be overkill on such small screwdrivers.desertrat wrote:If you have some time on your hands, you can put some medium grit sandpaper on a flat surface and rub the blades across it, switching sides frequently. Then switch to fine grit paper to get a better finish. This takes a while, but to me is a bit more controllable than a bench grinder, which works pretty fast with small screwdriver blades.
I do however have a sharpening stone, with which I have just about perfected the art of dulling my kitchen knives.
Perhaps I should purchase some cheapo ones to practice with first ...
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Re: Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
Eze-Lap hones make screwdriver sharpening/thinning relatively simple.
https://www.ezelap.co.uk/tools/Diamond- ... Stone.html
https://www.ezelap.co.uk/tools/Credit-C ... Stone.html
Cheaper brands are available, but caveat emptor
MichaelG.
https://www.ezelap.co.uk/tools/Diamond- ... Stone.html
https://www.ezelap.co.uk/tools/Credit-C ... Stone.html
Cheaper brands are available, but caveat emptor
MichaelG.
Too many 'projects'
Re: Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
Thanks for the tips MichaelG.
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Re: Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
I'm not into gunsmithing, but do own a full set of gunsmith's screwdrivers; with a wide variety of widths and thick to thin blades. These can be bought individually if you're not comfortable modifying one yourself. There's almost surely one that will be a close fit.
I find it helps to use some sort of clamp/sliding fixture when resharpening screwdrivers; so when you flip to the other side you maintain an exact 180 degree grind. In addition, a 6" wheel -- either freshly dressed soft white or hard CBN -- is a good diameter to allow the tip to be parallel rather than wedge-shaped where it meets the slot. If you use a diamond hone, you'll want to finish up cross-wise at the end, to avoid a wedge shape. Lots of old microscope screws require the best fit possible to avoid stripping.
I find it helps to use some sort of clamp/sliding fixture when resharpening screwdrivers; so when you flip to the other side you maintain an exact 180 degree grind. In addition, a 6" wheel -- either freshly dressed soft white or hard CBN -- is a good diameter to allow the tip to be parallel rather than wedge-shaped where it meets the slot. If you use a diamond hone, you'll want to finish up cross-wise at the end, to avoid a wedge shape. Lots of old microscope screws require the best fit possible to avoid stripping.
Re: Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
From the gunsmith web boards I found the majic sesame "hollow ground bits". I think these might be the clue. There are Amazon kits of such bits and a common handle. One maker claims that the bit breaks before is screw is damaged, signalling to the gunsmith to stop using brute force and seek some other solution.
Re: Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
For 'hollow ground' tips on small screwdrivers, this is possibly the best solution:
https://www.eternaltools.com/horotec-wa ... -sharpener
... excellent in principle, but a bit pricey for me.
MichaelG.
https://www.eternaltools.com/horotec-wa ... -sharpener
... excellent in principle, but a bit pricey for me.
MichaelG.
Too many 'projects'
-
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 12:15 am
Re: Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
I bought a cheap 10.00 multi bit set about 10 years ago and fashioned the slot bits with sandpaper blocks and a whet stone . They are excellent quality, don't burr or bend or deform in any way. I broke one but it reworked with some careful grinding.
Here is a similar set that is claiming 56 HRC. Hard to think you are going to lose at 20.00. There are lots of slot bits to form to your taste. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Multi-Bit-Scre ... :rk:3:pf:0
For odd small screws or really thin ones I use sections of hack saw blade formed to fit. Sometimes they break but they are disposible .
Moody makes excellent hobby or jewellers tools. http://www.moodytools.com/ I bought a bunch from a former Wild dealer a few years ago and I can vouch for them.
One set on ebay that seems underpriced; https://www.ebay.com/itm/Precision-Scre ... rk:26:pf:0
Here is a similar set that is claiming 56 HRC. Hard to think you are going to lose at 20.00. There are lots of slot bits to form to your taste. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Multi-Bit-Scre ... :rk:3:pf:0
For odd small screws or really thin ones I use sections of hack saw blade formed to fit. Sometimes they break but they are disposible .
Moody makes excellent hobby or jewellers tools. http://www.moodytools.com/ I bought a bunch from a former Wild dealer a few years ago and I can vouch for them.
One set on ebay that seems underpriced; https://www.ebay.com/itm/Precision-Scre ... rk:26:pf:0
Re: Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
All good tips PeteM thanksPeteM wrote:I'm not into gunsmithing, but do own a full set of gunsmith's screwdrivers; with a wide variety of widths and thick to thin blades. These can be bought individually if you're not comfortable modifying one yourself. There's almost surely one that will be a close fit.
I find it helps to use some sort of clamp/sliding fixture when resharpening screwdrivers; so when you flip to the other side you maintain an exact 180 degree grind. In addition, a 6" wheel -- either freshly dressed soft white or hard CBN -- is a good diameter to allow the tip to be parallel rather than wedge-shaped where it meets the slot. If you use a diamond hone, you'll want to finish up cross-wise at the end, to avoid a wedge shape. Lots of old microscope screws require the best fit possible to avoid stripping.
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Re: Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
Yes, I think Hollow ground is the way to.From the gunsmith web boards I found the majic sesame "hollow ground bits".
me too sadly ...... excellent in principle, but a bit pricey for me.
Thanks for the tip apochronaut, they just might be the solution.Moody makes excellent hobby or jewellers tools. http://www.moodytools.com/ I bought a bunch from a former Wild dealer a few years ago and I can vouch for them.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Moody-Tools-55 ... rk:30:pf:0
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Re: Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
For screw drivers a small bench grinder is just right, 125 to 150mm wheel diameter. This cost just 15€ and doesn't take up much space. This wheel diameter gives the right amount of hollow grind.
A proper screw driver is made from hardened steel and shouldn't be warmed to much more than 200 °C.
This can be done this way: Hold the screw driver in a way that allows to bring it repeadedly into the same position with ease. For example by holding the grip between thumb and index finger and putting this against the grinding rest.
Then slightly hold the blade against the turning wheel and grind a little bit. Then look at the ground surface: Did you manage to set back the whole surface or did you just grind on edge? =>Adjust position and side ways angle of screw driver and repeat.
Between the little grinds the screw driver tip is dipped into water, close to the grinder. Hissing sound means that you are at least close to overheating the blade. Ground parts are always hottest where they are thinnest, at the business end, so beware.
When you have managed to grind your screw drivers you can move on to wood chisels and drill bits. Bigger tools are easier to grind because ti takes longer and they don't overheat so fast.
When you have a screw driver that deforms easily at the tip it can be hardened if the grip can be kept cool enough. Heating until no longer magnetic, then dipping into oil. Afterwards annealing: Properly clean the surface with emery paper, then slowly heat to a light brown colour, just a hint.
Zeiss for sure made their own screws: When they started out in the 1840s there won't have been much of a supplier market in Jena.
But in the time of the Zeiss Standard they will have bought these parts from outside suppliers.
Bob
A proper screw driver is made from hardened steel and shouldn't be warmed to much more than 200 °C.
This can be done this way: Hold the screw driver in a way that allows to bring it repeadedly into the same position with ease. For example by holding the grip between thumb and index finger and putting this against the grinding rest.
Then slightly hold the blade against the turning wheel and grind a little bit. Then look at the ground surface: Did you manage to set back the whole surface or did you just grind on edge? =>Adjust position and side ways angle of screw driver and repeat.
Between the little grinds the screw driver tip is dipped into water, close to the grinder. Hissing sound means that you are at least close to overheating the blade. Ground parts are always hottest where they are thinnest, at the business end, so beware.
When you have managed to grind your screw drivers you can move on to wood chisels and drill bits. Bigger tools are easier to grind because ti takes longer and they don't overheat so fast.
When you have a screw driver that deforms easily at the tip it can be hardened if the grip can be kept cool enough. Heating until no longer magnetic, then dipping into oil. Afterwards annealing: Properly clean the surface with emery paper, then slowly heat to a light brown colour, just a hint.
Zeiss for sure made their own screws: When they started out in the 1840s there won't have been much of a supplier market in Jena.
But in the time of the Zeiss Standard they will have bought these parts from outside suppliers.
Bob
Re: Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
With the greatest repect, Bob ... I must mention that 125 to 150mm wheel diameter is much too big for small screwdrivers; the curvature needs to be reasonably 'in proportion' with the size of the tip.MicroBob wrote:For screw drivers a small bench grinder is just right, 125 to 150mm wheel diameter. This cost just 15€ and doesn't take up much space. This wheel diameter gives the right amount of hollow grind.
Aside from that: Your advice is excellent.
MichaelG.
Too many 'projects'
Re: Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
Thanks Bob. Do like the idea of sharpening drill bits. Will look into a grinder as a future project.MicroBob wrote:For screw drivers a small bench grinder is just right, 125 to 150mm wheel diameter. This cost just 15€ and doesn't take up much space. This wheel diameter gives the right amount of hollow grind.
A proper screw driver is made from hardened steel and shouldn't be warmed to much more than 200 °C.
This can be done this way: Hold the screw driver in a way that allows to bring it repeadedly into the same position with ease. For example by holding the grip between thumb and index finger and putting this against the grinding rest.
Then slightly hold the blade against the turning wheel and grind a little bit. Then look at the ground surface: Did you manage to set back the whole surface or did you just grind on edge? =>Adjust position and side ways angle of screw driver and repeat.
Between the little grinds the screw driver tip is dipped into water, close to the grinder. Hissing sound means that you are at least close to overheating the blade. Ground parts are always hottest where they are thinnest, at the business end, so beware.
When you have managed to grind your screw drivers you can move on to wood chisels and drill bits. Bigger tools are easier to grind because ti takes longer and they don't overheat so fast.
When you have a screw driver that deforms easily at the tip it can be hardened if the grip can be kept cool enough. Heating until no longer magnetic, then dipping into oil. Afterwards annealing: Properly clean the surface with emery paper, then slowly heat to a light brown colour, just a hint.
Zeiss for sure made their own screws: When they started out in the 1840s there won't have been much of a supplier market in Jena.
But in the time of the Zeiss Standard they will have bought these parts from outside suppliers.
Bob
That is what I thought. Makes sense at the beginning due to a lack of suppliers but not later on.But in the time of the Zeiss Standard they will have bought these parts from outside suppliers.
Someone then must make screwdrivers that fit those thin slotted supplied screws.
Unless of course they were made specifically for Zeiss (who specified thin slots - much the way Apple tried with the Pentalobe screw) to avoid what they considered to be customer tampering.
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Re: Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
This sounds so much like Zeiss, it has to be true. Lagrely they had the attitude to do things as good as ever they could, forget the cost. They also used whatever thread or screw head they tought best without much regard towards standards. This will be true to some extent for most instrument makers, but I have the impression that Zeiss acted very much this way.75RR wrote:Unless of course they were made specifically for Zeiss
Drill sharpening is a very rewarding thing to do: Whatever you do, the drill won't cut worse than a thoroughly dulled drill!
I once had the opportunity to work in a workshop for a short while where they built heavy asphalt milling machines in a very shoddy way and where they had lots of dull drills and few sharp ones. So I started to improve on my free hand grinding skills on drills of 40mm or so. This helped a lot.
Re: Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
Very true and an encouraging thought!Drill sharpening is a very rewarding thing to do: Whatever you do, the drill won't cut worse than a thoroughly dulled drill!
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Re: Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
Hello,75RR wrote:Thanks Peter, would be nice if someone were able to confirm that.I have no idea but I would say probably.
Agree that a bench grinder would be overkill on such small screwdrivers.desertrat wrote:If you have some time on your hands, you can put some medium grit sandpaper on a flat surface and rub the blades across it, switching sides frequently. Then switch to fine grit paper to get a better finish. This takes a while, but to me is a bit more controllable than a bench grinder, which works pretty fast with small screwdriver blades.
I do however have a sharpening stone, with which I have just about perfected the art of dulling my kitchen knives.
Perhaps I should purchase some cheapo ones to practice with first ...
Sharpening knives on stones is an art that requires a lot of practice.. Just keep trying and one day it will work...
Last edited by billbillt on Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
Anyone wanting to learn to sharpen knives (or any other blade) would do well to use a stereo microscope to monitor results...
Cheers,
Kurt Maurer
League City, Texas
email: ngc704(at)gmail(dot)com
https://www.flickr.com/photos/67904872@ ... 912223623/
Kurt Maurer
League City, Texas
email: ngc704(at)gmail(dot)com
https://www.flickr.com/photos/67904872@ ... 912223623/
Re: Slotted screwdriver blade thickness
Here is an awkward little nut:
... and a slotted driver, made yesterday from a standard 4mm straight blade; using Needle files and an Eze-Lap
MichaelG.
... and a slotted driver, made yesterday from a standard 4mm straight blade; using Needle files and an Eze-Lap
MichaelG.
Too many 'projects'