Zeiss Stupidity Respecting Hobbyists

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linuxusr
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Zeiss Stupidity Respecting Hobbyists

#1 Post by linuxusr » Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:14 pm

Hello All,

I need to see if my Axiocam 208 needs an update in its firmware. So, I write the version number of what I currently have, then go to the Zeiss website to identify the current firmware version number. But it's not stated. Instead, I have to download the file. Only then will I know if I already have it or not by simply reading the file name. But I cannot do that unless I register with zeiss.com. So far, really, no problem, right? Then comes the clincher. I keep getting error messages saying that my request is blocked by virtue of my domain name. So then I try a VPN, also blocked. In addition, I have a video in my inbox on the Axiocam 208 that I want to watch. Can't do that either, since I must login first.

So then I write a letter to Zeiss in Germany under their Contact information. They answer bilingually, in German and English, explaining that my request is blocked because all freemail providers are blocked, such as gmail. I must have a company or university related address only. Then they stupidly tell me that I can find out more about that correspondence if I login, but, of course, I cannot login because I don't have a company or university related address!

The moral of the story is that, at least in this case, Zeiss doesn't play nice with us hobbyists.

Meanwhile, I need a company or university related address. Any ideas?
Nikon AlphaPhot 2 < Zeiss Primostar 3, Full Köhler; Axiocam 208 Color < UHD LG
Aller Anfang ist schwer.

Dubious
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Re: Zeiss Stupidity Respecting Hobbyists

#2 Post by Dubious » Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:57 pm

Unfortunately, not the only manufacturer that is less than enthusiastic about supporting hobbyists with older microscopes.

Some schools and universities offer alumni accounts--I have sometimes found that useful for things like this. Also, I doubt their blocking software has a list of all free mail services--probably just the large ones--so you might try a mail account with a small, obscure service.

PeteM
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Re: Zeiss Stupidity Respecting Hobbyists

#3 Post by PeteM » Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:00 pm

You could pick a relevant company name, register the domain, and find a low cost provider to host it and your new email system. Some reliable providers, such as "Go Daddy" in the US, offer fairly cheap registrations and hosting services.

Sadlly, Zeiss is not alone in actively discouraging "time wasting" hobbyists from interacting with their support services. In some cases, perhaps yours, this is short-sighted. I used to run a new product development consulting company and one of our research projects was on how support for older used products promoted brand loyalty and new sales. This was particularly true when it increased the value of used equipment, so that new buyers could justify upgrading more frequently. In the microscope case, it might be colleges could justify replacing student microscopes every six years instead of every ten years, because some high school (or hobbyists) would buy them knowing they weren't obsolete.

It's likely that offering better online support for legacy products (though probably not live support) would have a reasonable return on investment for the Leica-Nikon-Olympus-Zeiss types. None of them seem interested.

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75RR
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Re: Zeiss Stupidity Respecting Hobbyists

#4 Post by 75RR » Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:50 pm

PeteM wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:00 pm
You could pick a relevant company name, register the domain, and find a low cost provider to host it and your new email system. Some reliable providers, such as "Go Daddy" in the US, offer fairly cheap registrations and hosting services.

Sadlly, Zeiss is not alone in actively discouraging "time wasting" hobbyists from interacting with their support services. In some cases, perhaps yours, this is short-sighted. I used to run a new product development consulting company and one of our research projects was on how support for older used products promoted brand loyalty and new sales. This was particularly true when it increased the value of used equipment, so that new buyers could justify upgrading more frequently. In the microscope case, it might be colleges could justify replacing student microscopes every six years instead of every ten years, because some high school (or hobbyists) would buy them knowing they weren't obsolete.

It's likely that offering better online support for legacy products (though probably not live support) would have a reasonable return on investment for the Leica-Nikon-Olympus-Zeiss types. None of them seem interested.
+1

Have to agree that these manufacturers are shooting themselves in the foot.

Can only suppose that these companies are been run by MBA graduates, they have but two gods, immediate profits ... and lowest common denominator.
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)

Hobbyst46
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Re: Zeiss Stupidity Respecting Hobbyists

#5 Post by Hobbyst46 » Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:14 pm

linuxusr wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:14 pm
Hello All,

I need to see if my Axiocam 208 needs an update in its firmware. So, I write the version number of what I currently have, then go to the Zeiss website to identify the current firmware version number. But it's not stated. Instead, I have to download the file. Only then will I know if I already have it or not by simply reading the file name. But I cannot do that unless I register with zeiss.com. So far, really, no problem, right? Then comes the clincher. I keep getting error messages saying that my request is blocked by virtue of my domain name. So then I try a VPN, also blocked. In addition, I have a video in my inbox on the Axiocam 208 that I want to watch. Can't do that either, since I must login first.

So then I write a letter to Zeiss in Germany under their Contact information. They answer bilingually, in German and English, explaining that my request is blocked because all freemail providers are blocked, such as gmail. I must have a company or university related address only. Then they stupidly tell me that I can find out more about that correspondence if I login, but, of course, I cannot login because I don't have a company or university related address!

The moral of the story is that, at least in this case, Zeiss doesn't play nice with us hobbyists.

Meanwhile, I need a company or university related address. Any ideas?
Major microscope manufacturers are especially and deliberately unhelpful regarding their dedicated software/firmware. At least, most of them are.
And this applies not only to hobbyists but to institute members as well.

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linuxusr
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Re: Zeiss Stupidity Respecting Hobbyists

#6 Post by linuxusr » Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:01 pm

PeteM wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:00 pm
You could pick a relevant company name, register the domain, and find a low cost provider to host it and your new email system. Some reliable providers, such as "Go Daddy" in the US, offer fairly cheap registrations and hosting services.

Sadlly, Zeiss is not alone in actively discouraging "time wasting" hobbyists from interacting with their support services. In some cases, perhaps yours, this is short-sighted. I used to run a new product development consulting company and one of our research projects was on how support for older used products promoted brand loyalty and new sales. This was particularly true when it increased the value of used equipment, so that new buyers could justify upgrading more frequently. In the microscope case, it might be colleges could justify replacing student microscopes every six years instead of every ten years, because some high school (or hobbyists) would buy them knowing they weren't obsolete.

It's likely that offering better online support for legacy products (though probably not live support) would have a reasonable return on investment for the Leica-Nikon-Olympus-Zeiss types. None of them seem interested.
My equipment, both microscope and camera and accessories, are new, < one year old. No block when it came to paying $$$ for this equipment. All bona fide purchasers should be supported.

Anyway, as you suggest, this is a problem that probably has an easy workaround. For example, I have a website. I know that my host offers extra emails. I'll check there, as well as the website where I was a public school teacher before I retired, to see if they have email for retirees . . .
Nikon AlphaPhot 2 < Zeiss Primostar 3, Full Köhler; Axiocam 208 Color < UHD LG
Aller Anfang ist schwer.

MichaelG.
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Re: Zeiss Stupidity Respecting Hobbyists

#7 Post by MichaelG. » Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:05 am

I am genuinely shocked, linuxusr !

Thanks for warning us about this

Hope you find a way to access the Zeiss ‘Portal’
… surely you paid for that access as part of the purchase price :?

MichaelG.
Too many 'projects'

apochronaut
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Re: Zeiss Stupidity Respecting Hobbyists

#8 Post by apochronaut » Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:50 am

You have to be a member of the club now to get information.
Zeiss won't even sell parts to someone not in their club. A lot of it is justified under exagerrated safety protocols but in reality it is mostly a tool to provide those within the club with revenue. In the eyes of a growing number of companies and professions, the loyalty is to the company or profession and it's tentacles and by attempting to circumvent those tentacles, you are not being loyal to the company or profession or worse. You may be endangering yourself or others.

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zzffnn
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Re: Zeiss Stupidity Respecting Hobbyists

#9 Post by zzffnn » Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:19 am

linuxusr wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:14 pm
Hello All,

I need to see if my Axiocam 208 needs an update in its firmware. So, I write the version number of what I currently have, then go to the Zeiss website to identify the current firmware version number. But it's not stated. Instead, I have to download the file. Only then will I know if I already have it or not by simply reading the file name. But I cannot do that unless I register with zeiss.com. So far, really, no problem, right? Then comes the clincher. I keep getting error messages saying that my request is blocked by virtue of my domain name. So then I try a VPN, also blocked. In addition, I have a video in my inbox on the Axiocam 208 that I want to watch. Can't do that either, since I must login first.

So then I write a letter to Zeiss in Germany under their Contact information. They answer bilingually, in German and English, explaining that my request is blocked because all freemail providers are blocked, such as gmail. I must have a company or university related address only. Then they stupidly tell me that I can find out more about that correspondence if I login, but, of course, I cannot login because I don't have a company or university related address!

The moral of the story is that, at least in this case, Zeiss doesn't play nice with us hobbyists.

Meanwhile, I need a company or university related address. Any ideas?
linuxusr, I can help you using my work email, if it is just receiving and forwarding. Just message me.

Some web sites, such as a photography site named Fred Miranda, also asks for non-freemail email accounts.

I would guess some personal paid emails would work too, but I don't have one other than my work email.

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75RR
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Re: Zeiss Stupidity Respecting Hobbyists

#10 Post by 75RR » Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:45 am

.
Still think that manufacturers are shooting themselves in the foot by not providing support for old equipment - manuals etc ...


However, having looked into the free email saga there does seem to be a reasonable basis for it,

as this link to a blog entitled "the-business-risks-of-using-personal-email-accounts" shows.

https://blog.barracuda.com/2019/08/02/t ... -accounts/
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)

Greg Howald
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Re: Zeiss Stupidity Respecting Hobbyists

#11 Post by Greg Howald » Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:51 pm

I have found tech support to be "Wanting" across the board of manufacturers. It's as if they are not familiar enough with the product to be as helpful as desired. I think they put you off mostly because they don't really know the answer to the user's questions, and are not going to take the time necessary to be truly familiar with their own products. This seems especially prevalent with popular brands like Amscope. These days it seems that nothing comes with good instruction. You are pretty much left with the challenge to figure stuff out on your own, which is the real value of this forum. With the forum you are able to learn from the experience of others. 😃
Greg

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linuxusr
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Re: Zeiss Stupidity Respecting Hobbyists

#12 Post by linuxusr » Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:44 pm

Thanks for your sentiments and possible solutions, everyone. Thanks zzffnn for your offer. Meanwhile, I called Zeiss in NY, U.S. The phone help was very sympathetic and game me an address to write to. I did that and also attached my invoices of Zeiss equipment purchases, totaling around $5,000.00. I received a sympathetic and apologetic response and was told that they will be seeking out other Zeiss staff to find a solution and to hold tight.

So that's good. I'll update.
Nikon AlphaPhot 2 < Zeiss Primostar 3, Full Köhler; Axiocam 208 Color < UHD LG
Aller Anfang ist schwer.

MichaelG.
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Re: Zeiss Stupidity Respecting Hobbyists

#13 Post by MichaelG. » Sat Dec 11, 2021 9:29 pm

Excellent progress
Hopefully Zeiss will realise that it has a duty of care.

I did notice that there is an http web address for firmware downloads in the manual … but it redirects to the https page that has been troubling you !

Presumably when they updated to https, someone forgot to give the personal customer access !

MichaelG.
Too many 'projects'

Dubious
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Re: Zeiss Stupidity Respecting Hobbyists

#14 Post by Dubious » Sun Dec 12, 2021 1:39 am

Linuxuser, glad to hear the Zeiss NY office is trying to help with the firmware upgrade--certainly there is no excuse for Zeiss not supporting a current model, whoever owns it.

With automobiles, even though manufacturers would rather consumers bought a new car each year, still, it's a consumer product and there is benefit in competing in after-market support with parts and information so as to retain brand loyalty and get future sales from the owners of older vehicles. Also, cars don't stay around nearly as long as a well-made microscope. Microscopes are different. The big-name vintage microscopes many here are using were often not really consumers items in the first place, and most of their current hobbyist owners are unlikely ever to buy the company's current research scopes, so I guess I can see why the companies do not see much profit in supporting 40-year old microscopes, even with information. Still, I agree these policies are short sighted. Some hobbyists are in or will be in positions to influence institutional buying of obscenely expensive new research microscopes; and, in any case, it wouldn't cost much or lose it any sales for a big-name microscope manufacturer to maintain online archives of documentation for the vintage scopes in its history that are still in use--could only produce good will.

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