My new Zeiss primostar 3
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My new Zeiss primostar 3
Recently I bought myself a new Zeiss primostar 3. It is good. I am exploring it as well as the world with it. A part of my set up is here:
I am looking at a juvenile mosquito larva here. I made a permanent slide of it and some of its cousins with Elmer’s glue in last monsoon. The larva is very photogenic, isn’t it?
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Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
Hello and welcome.
Very tidy workspace.
Lots of flat surface spare,a stereo microscope is very useful and doubles the collection with just one more.
A brief summary of your Primostar 3 would be interesting, some of us are a bit behind the times and that looks quite new.
Very tidy workspace.
Lots of flat surface spare,a stereo microscope is very useful and doubles the collection with just one more.
A brief summary of your Primostar 3 would be interesting, some of us are a bit behind the times and that looks quite new.
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Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
Thanks for your warm welcomes. I will try to give a detailed description of my scope later. In broad strokes, it is basically the Euromax iscope Oliver made a video about recently minus the focus lock. Also, I have a Ph2, 40x phase contrast objective and therefore a turret condenser. Regarding the stereo microscope: Thanks for the suggestion! Sure, may be someday in future!
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Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
I have an iscope.
Interestingly Oliver describes the Kohler LED.
Bless, not going there.
That's one nasty slide clamp there Euromex, name and shame.
And it turns itself off, nope.
Nice little blue LED though, maybe mine is just one of all the ones that don't.
I'd be interested if Euromex sent Oliver one that does what it claims.
Interestingly Oliver describes the Kohler LED.
Bless, not going there.
That's one nasty slide clamp there Euromex, name and shame.
And it turns itself off, nope.
Nice little blue LED though, maybe mine is just one of all the ones that don't.
I'd be interested if Euromex sent Oliver one that does what it claims.
Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
For convenient reference:
102 page instruction manual for the Primostar 3 series is downloadable from Zeiss:
https://asset-downloads.zeiss.com/catal ... _3_V05.pdf
MichaelG.
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P.S. __ I note that Manufacturer is clearly stated as :
Carl Zeiss Suzhou Co., Ltd. Modern Industrial Square 3-B, No.333 XingPu Road SIP 215126 Suzhou China
but I have no idea how/where that Company sits in the grand scheme of Chinese manufacturing.
102 page instruction manual for the Primostar 3 series is downloadable from Zeiss:
https://asset-downloads.zeiss.com/catal ... _3_V05.pdf
MichaelG.
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P.S. __ I note that Manufacturer is clearly stated as :
Carl Zeiss Suzhou Co., Ltd. Modern Industrial Square 3-B, No.333 XingPu Road SIP 215126 Suzhou China
but I have no idea how/where that Company sits in the grand scheme of Chinese manufacturing.
Too many 'projects'
Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
In my humble opinion, all OEM products serve as transitional products in the layout of China's manufacturing industry, and establishing independent brands is the long-term solution.
Micrographers from China, thanks to the forum for providing a platform for exchange
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Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
Reverse engineering is cost effective but is damaging to the funding of innovation and development.
Standing on the shoulders of giants with no interest in the view.
Standing on the shoulders of giants with no interest in the view.
Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
Please allow me to correct:
OEM products are not "reverse engineering", they are authorized transfer production activities (in order to obtain a price advantage). And use the original company brand, right?
Of course, OEM has promoted the technological progress of latecomer industrial countries, in short, "exchanging market for technology".
Good luck, I hope we don't argue anymore. This is not a political forum, is it?
OEM products are not "reverse engineering", they are authorized transfer production activities (in order to obtain a price advantage). And use the original company brand, right?
Of course, OEM has promoted the technological progress of latecomer industrial countries, in short, "exchanging market for technology".
Good luck, I hope we don't argue anymore. This is not a political forum, is it?
Micrographers from China, thanks to the forum for providing a platform for exchange
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Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
In many ways, I agree with Woyjwjl. We, lyeing outside of the great industrial revolution that is modern China are not very well equipped to understand the processes that drive it's development and innovation.
I am the recipient of a Chinese made stereo microscope that postures as a Nikon SMZ18, albeit at 1/6 the price. It exists because of the " authorized transfer of production activities" quoted over from Woyjwjl. No doubt it is not an SMZ18 but is it 25% as good, 75% as good? I don't know. I never will know because I will never be able to afford an SMZ18. The Chinese so called clone is in my case a BS-3090, which is so good that I need not reach for anything else. However that is a circumstance of stereo microscopes, where a bit of a revolution happened to allow 18X or 25X continuous zoom with apochromatic performance. The BS-3090 is not a reverse engineered design. It is a Nikon design, just made more economically and not sold in such a way that Nikon is grabbing a big slice of the pie.
That is not necessarily the case with biological microscopes when one of the big four has their name on it ; or any other western broker for that matter. They step all over it. There is no revolution in design that gives a $3000.00 big four branded Chinese planachro microscope any advantage over an older western made planachro. The magnification potential and colour correction is more or less the same and as long as the posturing of a German or Japanese major isn't attached , the price should be attractive. Keep the price in line with pretentions only to the o.e.m. name and all is well but once a western broker starts skimming the cream, forget it. The price is way too high and that is why I would always come down on the side of purchasing used and high or a Chinese brand to buy. These Chinese made western branded scopes are a complete rip.
I am the recipient of a Chinese made stereo microscope that postures as a Nikon SMZ18, albeit at 1/6 the price. It exists because of the " authorized transfer of production activities" quoted over from Woyjwjl. No doubt it is not an SMZ18 but is it 25% as good, 75% as good? I don't know. I never will know because I will never be able to afford an SMZ18. The Chinese so called clone is in my case a BS-3090, which is so good that I need not reach for anything else. However that is a circumstance of stereo microscopes, where a bit of a revolution happened to allow 18X or 25X continuous zoom with apochromatic performance. The BS-3090 is not a reverse engineered design. It is a Nikon design, just made more economically and not sold in such a way that Nikon is grabbing a big slice of the pie.
That is not necessarily the case with biological microscopes when one of the big four has their name on it ; or any other western broker for that matter. They step all over it. There is no revolution in design that gives a $3000.00 big four branded Chinese planachro microscope any advantage over an older western made planachro. The magnification potential and colour correction is more or less the same and as long as the posturing of a German or Japanese major isn't attached , the price should be attractive. Keep the price in line with pretentions only to the o.e.m. name and all is well but once a western broker starts skimming the cream, forget it. The price is way too high and that is why I would always come down on the side of purchasing used and high or a Chinese brand to buy. These Chinese made western branded scopes are a complete rip.
Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
It was only a few years ago when I touted the comparable performance of the Bestscope BS-2080 vs Olympus, Nikon and Zeiss models costing significantly more. Glad to see others recognizing what the Chinese have brought to market.
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Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
Yes but only above a certain price, just as in the past. The average Chinese achromat, semi-achromat and planachromat instrument or stereo at sub. 1500.00 is still a crap shoot.
Particular question marks are the collimation of the led illumination systems, the varability in N.A. of individual objective samples, the persitent use of abbe condensers and lack of any specifications regarding parcentering. Parcentering specs. are never mentioned but they will tell you that the optics are glass, the condenser is an abbe and it has a rotating head. Whooopi. This , plus the fact that seldom is the precision of the fine controls mentioned, except that they announce that 2 microns, which in 1965 was relegated to student microscopes is something special.
At prices under 1500.00, most of them are student microscopes at a laboratory microscope price.
Particular question marks are the collimation of the led illumination systems, the varability in N.A. of individual objective samples, the persitent use of abbe condensers and lack of any specifications regarding parcentering. Parcentering specs. are never mentioned but they will tell you that the optics are glass, the condenser is an abbe and it has a rotating head. Whooopi. This , plus the fact that seldom is the precision of the fine controls mentioned, except that they announce that 2 microns, which in 1965 was relegated to student microscopes is something special.
At prices under 1500.00, most of them are student microscopes at a laboratory microscope price.
Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
If you buy a Nikon camera that's made in China, does that make it an anonymous Chinese camera that Nikon simply put its name on? No. It's a Nikon camera made by Nikon in China.
If Zeiss makes it's entry-tier scopes in China, does that make them some shoddy Chinese scope made in a rural barn that Zeiss simply put its name on? Similarly, no!
The Primostar is a very nice and very well thought-out platform that comes in a comprehensive range of configurations and options. Sure, it costs a little more than an Amscope (which really are generic "that will do" scopes), but Zeiss stands behind it with its high design standards and quality manufacturing and support, all of which costs money and has genuine value.
The OP should rightfully feel proud of his or her scope! I hope he or she uses it in good health and with many wonderful hours of viewing and learning!
If Zeiss makes it's entry-tier scopes in China, does that make them some shoddy Chinese scope made in a rural barn that Zeiss simply put its name on? Similarly, no!
The Primostar is a very nice and very well thought-out platform that comes in a comprehensive range of configurations and options. Sure, it costs a little more than an Amscope (which really are generic "that will do" scopes), but Zeiss stands behind it with its high design standards and quality manufacturing and support, all of which costs money and has genuine value.
The OP should rightfully feel proud of his or her scope! I hope he or she uses it in good health and with many wonderful hours of viewing and learning!
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Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
I believe it is Motic that manufactures the microscope and there are numerous similar microscopes with different names. Does the Zeiss involvement guarantee a better microscope? That would depend on whether Zeiss funnels the extra cost of their version towards polishing some of the standard defects that plague basic China scopes. Are the Zeiss badged versions carefully parcentered? I doubt it. Are the objectives carefully tested to ensure N.A. ? I doubt it. Are the Zeiss versions scrupulously clean? I doubt it. Chinese basic grade microscopes are notoriously dirty, coming from the factory.
in order for a Zeiss badged version to excel in these areas when other badges might not, Zeiss would have to separate their production off and that would entail considerable extra cost. The higher cost of the Primostar seems to be just enough to meet the Chinese standard markup, so not anywhere enough to account for extra q.c. but enough for Zeiss to bank on the fact that many woild pay for the Zeiss name on a standard Chinese microscope, thus guaranteeing them adequate profit.
Chinese wholesalers recommend a certain retail. It is about double. Nobody charges that. Amscope as an example. They routinely offer slashed prces off of retail. The retail that they quote is never charged because it is that over the top Chinese recommended markup of over 100%, so they always have slashed prices. Zeiss is just charging the recommended retail and banking on a customer paying due to the Zeiss badge.
in order for a Zeiss badged version to excel in these areas when other badges might not, Zeiss would have to separate their production off and that would entail considerable extra cost. The higher cost of the Primostar seems to be just enough to meet the Chinese standard markup, so not anywhere enough to account for extra q.c. but enough for Zeiss to bank on the fact that many woild pay for the Zeiss name on a standard Chinese microscope, thus guaranteeing them adequate profit.
Chinese wholesalers recommend a certain retail. It is about double. Nobody charges that. Amscope as an example. They routinely offer slashed prces off of retail. The retail that they quote is never charged because it is that over the top Chinese recommended markup of over 100%, so they always have slashed prices. Zeiss is just charging the recommended retail and banking on a customer paying due to the Zeiss badge.
Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
I prefer to believe that Zeiss, as well as Olympus, Leica and Nikon, went to China seeking to make the best products they could at the target price. The good faith invested in their names has real economic value and has to be maintained and defended over the long term. That is more important to them than a cynical buck, and results in a level of care in the product.
My more important point, though, was that the gentle person who originally came here should be congratulated and encouraged in the pride they have for their scope and hobby!
My more important point, though, was that the gentle person who originally came here should be congratulated and encouraged in the pride they have for their scope and hobby!
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Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
I'm just sayin' what is happening. I'm not inventing it or intent on attacking or hurting anyone.
My first foray into the Chinese microscope market was in the early 90's, when Hong Kong was independent and Motic was an evolving independent company. The first Chinese made Zeiss microscopes were absolute garbage. The power supplies would overheat and fry. One vet clinic had 2 of them go in the first year and when the third one went just outside of the year warranty, Zeiss washed their hands of it. The offending part was $200.00 in the 90's., when the microscope itself was around $1000.00. Zeiss imposed no more "Zeiss" quality on that model than a Pontiac badge did on a Chevrolet.
Although Chinese microscopes have improved greatly and Motic has an increasing quality reputation, the Chinese industry for scopes marketed world wide is still based on economy of scale and volume based pricing and any badge is possible. I could buy the exact same microscope as the Primostar with any name I wanted on it, if I bought enough of them and ponied up the cash.
My first foray into the Chinese microscope market was in the early 90's, when Hong Kong was independent and Motic was an evolving independent company. The first Chinese made Zeiss microscopes were absolute garbage. The power supplies would overheat and fry. One vet clinic had 2 of them go in the first year and when the third one went just outside of the year warranty, Zeiss washed their hands of it. The offending part was $200.00 in the 90's., when the microscope itself was around $1000.00. Zeiss imposed no more "Zeiss" quality on that model than a Pontiac badge did on a Chevrolet.
Although Chinese microscopes have improved greatly and Motic has an increasing quality reputation, the Chinese industry for scopes marketed world wide is still based on economy of scale and volume based pricing and any badge is possible. I could buy the exact same microscope as the Primostar with any name I wanted on it, if I bought enough of them and ponied up the cash.
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Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
Similar dynamics occur in other industries; I was employed by a company that moved manufacturing from the U.S. to Korea, then China. Engineers were in the habit of walking from their offices and labs to better explain or correct their incomplete or wrong documentation on the manufacturing floor. A Korean firm won a dramatically lower bid for the next product based on comparably poor documentation, then after a year of defective prototypes eventually delivered problematic products. When their bid for the next generation was much higher, having learned the true cost of producing competitive quality, management accepted a lower bid from a Chinese firm, where the cycle repeated, but in the process had effectively kick-started 2 competitors with independent supply chains.
Metaphot, Optiphot 1, 66; AO 10, 120, EPIStar, Cycloptic
Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
I'm new here and maybe I shouldn't have stepped into this topic. I've never seen or touched a Chinese-made entry-level big-4 scope, either. But I bet they arrive (a) well packed with a high degree of cleanliness, (b) excellent functionality and working order, (c) with a comprehensive manual written in perfect English as well as several other languages, (d) with the backup of the company should something be wrong, and so on.
Anyway, while I was waiting to be allowed in (it took almost a month), I read a few hundred or thousand posts. Sadly, it's not infrequent that someone new comes here, posts about their new scope with some pride, and they get hammered by people saying "that's a China stencil scope!" (which sounds frankly jingoistic), or "could have paid half as much for 'exactly the same' without the name!" or "should have bought X used instead!", and so on.
There's place for critiques about various brands or models (namely a separate post), but a first post by someone showing off their new acquisition to share their joy with others doesn't feel like the right time or place.
I'll bow out of this kind of discussion now.
Anyway, while I was waiting to be allowed in (it took almost a month), I read a few hundred or thousand posts. Sadly, it's not infrequent that someone new comes here, posts about their new scope with some pride, and they get hammered by people saying "that's a China stencil scope!" (which sounds frankly jingoistic), or "could have paid half as much for 'exactly the same' without the name!" or "should have bought X used instead!", and so on.
There's place for critiques about various brands or models (namely a separate post), but a first post by someone showing off their new acquisition to share their joy with others doesn't feel like the right time or place.
I'll bow out of this kind of discussion now.
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Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
Actually, threads are there for the general community. When one starts a thread, they are offering it for everyone and it isn't just show and tell. It can be but often posts invite comments too. The debate about the value of this or that new microscope and the relationship of each to what can be obtained on the second hand market is a long standing one and isn't going to go away. It's all just education. If someone gets offended by being offered information , well then , they need an education about that too.
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Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
It's also a valid point the OP was pleased to share they like what they bought and made an effort to share.
They quit after 2 posts
They quit after 2 posts
Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
Congrats on that new scope, it looks amazing!
Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
mainaksiitk,
Only thing better than having a nice microscope is having a nice microscope and larvae !
Only thing better than having a nice microscope is having a nice microscope and larvae !
Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
I agree with many of the points presented.
I own Chinese branded scopes, as well as the BIG 4 scopes. The discussion as mentioned by Apochronaut is meant to be more academic. I do not believe it is meant as a criticism of anyone's specific purchase.
Congrats on the new scope! Anyone making the effort to participate in this hobby deserves to be congratulated. However- Like ALL hobbies whether it be microscopes, guns, motorcycles, cars etc expect light hearted (and sometimes heated) debates to take place. It is how "knowledge" and "enjoyment" of the hobby is validated and promoted.
I have found myself involved in many of these types of discussions in the past and find them fascinating.
I own Chinese branded scopes, as well as the BIG 4 scopes. The discussion as mentioned by Apochronaut is meant to be more academic. I do not believe it is meant as a criticism of anyone's specific purchase.
Congrats on the new scope! Anyone making the effort to participate in this hobby deserves to be congratulated. However- Like ALL hobbies whether it be microscopes, guns, motorcycles, cars etc expect light hearted (and sometimes heated) debates to take place. It is how "knowledge" and "enjoyment" of the hobby is validated and promoted.
I have found myself involved in many of these types of discussions in the past and find them fascinating.
Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
When you said you used Elmers glue ...which type? I would be interested in exactly what you did. Did you use it to just seal the edges of the coverslip or as a complete mounting agent? Elmers has a clear glue. I have wondered how that would work. Although I have no idea of the RI of that glue. Does anyone know?
Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
+1einman wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 3:35 amI Congrats on the new scope! Anyone making the effort to participate in this hobby deserves to be congratulated. However- Like ALL hobbies whether it be microscopes, guns, motorcycles, cars etc expect light hearted (and sometimes heated) debates to take place. It is how "knowledge" and "enjoyment" of the hobby is validated and promoted.
I have found myself involved in many of these types of discussions in the past and find them fascinating.
Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
This is getting off-topic, but the clear PVA glue can be used as a component in a mountant that works pretty well. If you search for "PVA-G" I know I have posted about it with links to a paper detailing how to make it. I'm far from an expert, but I've found it useful.einman wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 3:41 amWhen you said you used Elmers glue ...which type? I would be interested in exactly what you did. Did you use it to just seal the edges of the coverslip or as a complete mounting agent? Elmers has a clear glue. I have wondered how that would work. Although I have no idea of the RI of that glue. Does anyone know?
Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
Thanks. You are correct - a bit off topic but served its purpose. Thanks for the info by the way.
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Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
Hi All! Oh, boy! The discussions exploded - may not be in nuclear size but certainly cracker-size! Thanks a lot! Please keep discussing. Nobody was ever harmed by just discussions I was in a little rut. But came out and will share my observations with this machine soon. Just my two-cents regarding country of origin and the quality issue: I could afford only this one. After a “thorough” constrained optimization of parameters given my geographical location, my wallet-strength and available knowledge about microscopy! I am, personally, looking forward more to exploit this one as best as I can
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Re: My new Zeiss primostar 3
Hi! Thanks for the interest and sorry for late reply!einman wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 3:41 amWhen you said you used Elmers glue ...which type? I would be interested in exactly what you did. Did you use it to just seal the edges of the coverslip or as a complete mounting agent? Elmers has a clear glue. I have wondered how that would work. Although I have no idea of the RI of that glue. Does anyone know?
Elmer’s glue - clear one - (E305)! Put a drop on the slide and then dropped the live larvae onto it. The surface tension slowly spread the samples then on top another drop of glue. Then put the cover slip on top and let it dry. It dried overnight. Thanks again!