High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

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farnsy
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High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#1 Post by farnsy » Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:44 am

I finally made a video in which I review my BS2081. This is a top-of-the line Chinese microscope. Normally we think of top microscopes only coming from Japan, Europe and a few other spots, with cheap stuff coming from China. However, at a higher price point they have some nice stuff. It's not perfect, nor is the buying process, but I think it deserves some good consideration. That will be more true when the trade war is over (or if you are in a country that doesn't have tariffs on Chinese microscopes).

Other names for this scope (or variations thereof): AccuScope EXC-500, Nexcope E900, EuroMex Delphi Observer, Labomed LB-286, Radical RXLr-5. The latter uses a different manufacturer for its optics.



I would have wanted a long review like this when I was considering buying it. If you are not, you might want to watch it at 1.5x or something.

There is one complaint that I have but forgot to mention in the video: the objectives are not perfectly parfocal. I'd say there is as much as a quarter turn between them. It's a little annoyance, but a persistent one. I kind of want to get some shims to make it perfectly parfocal and save myself some hassle.

Scarodactyl
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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#2 Post by Scarodactyl » Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:24 am

Extremely cool! It's nice to get a closer look at one of these. It looks like a real beast.
A couple thoughts:
You'd probably want to direct project onto an aps-c sensor. That's usually thr best for Nikon anyway if you can get it set up.
I'm glad for curiosity's sake that you got the 20x apo and the quality is good, but why not just use the 100 dollar Nikon 20x apos available on eBay? It would be interesting to know how compatible the dic is across them anyway. The nikon 20x apo seems to be fully compatible with Nikon's epi DIC which was a bit surprising to me.
I hope we'll see some pics from it!

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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#3 Post by farnsy » Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:55 am

Scarodactyl wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:24 am
I'm glad for curiosity's sake that you got the 20x apo and the quality is good, but why not just use the 100 dollar Nikon 20x apos available on eBay?
I didn't buy an ebay apo because I actually didn't know about them at the time. I ordered this a few months ago and it took more than 2 months to ship, and then there were other parts I ordered that didn't come in for another month after that. And I'm still waiting for one more. So the initial purchase was a long time ago and that ebay objective wasn't on my radar. Actually, I find it quite interesting that this company makes only a 20X apochromatic objective and at the same time that particular magnification is abundant and cheap on ebay. Also that it seems to have been engineered without respecting the physical dimensions of the other objectives, almost like it wasn't meant to go in that turret. It is my belief that Nikon makes their regular apo objectives in Japan, but had Novel make the 20X apos for those gene sequencers. In other words, I believe this *is* an ebay apo. It's just new instead of used. They charged me $620 for it, if memory serves, which I thought was a fair price.

There are actually a lot of things I would do differently with this purchase if I had known then what I know now. I could have saved a good bit of money and time. But unfortunately time only flows in one direction, as my stock portfolio can testify.

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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#4 Post by Scarodactyl » Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:43 am

If it performs like the Nikon branded one 620 is definitely less than it's worth.

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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#5 Post by Dubious » Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:47 pm

Congratulations on the new microscope, and thanks for the report.

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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#6 Post by 75RR » Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:54 pm

.
An interesting review, and for those thinking of buying a new DIC microscope from a non-established manufacturer, quite invaluable.

However, I think that a written breakdown of costs of Brightfield/DIC would be helpful, as I was a little unsure of the total costs involved after viewing the video.

Best I could figure was 4000 + 3000 and then some.

If the competition is with new Nikon/Olympus DIC microscopes then we would need accurate figures to compare prices and then to be fair also some image comparisons.

I see the Phase as extra (think option), so perhaps those costs should be separate.

Thanks for posting this.
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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#7 Post by farnsy » Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:11 pm

I didn't want to share specific costs because prices may change before you go and talk to them. However, maybe that's silly. If prices go up, they go up. Actually it's a little better than I remember it. $4k was a quote after some of these upgrades.

Scope with achromatic objectives and no 60X: $2,200
I do not recall if the above includes a basic head. I think it does.

Upgrades to fluor:
4X: $45 -> $140
10X: $65 -> $260
20X: $70 -> $280 (or $620 for apo)
40X: $135 -> $320
100X: $160 -> $660

60X objective: $290

Head upgrade: $280 (binocular, non-ergo) -> $750 (trinocular, ergo)

Phase contrast kit (with all the objectives, condenser, telescope, etc.): $1,080

DIC kit: $3,160

Simple polarizing kit: $300

Plan on $500 shipping or so and don't forget about tariffs.

If you want more details, prices on other stuff, or a quote for exactly what you want, I suggest reaching out to them. I did it via alibaba. You can tell them Grant sent you. ;)

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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#8 Post by Dubious » Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:31 pm

So, for a little more than $6,000 you can get a new microscope with phase and DIC that is essentially a premium Nikon clone. Not bad at all. I wonder why Amscope and Motic do not offer a DIC-equipped microscope? Both have what look to be pretty good phase packages.

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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#9 Post by Lomonaut » Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:17 pm

Very interesting and informative review, thanks!

Great to hear that the water immersion worked out so well, I've never used one but they always seemed so appealing. I hope you get it working in DIC mode soon 8-)

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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#10 Post by PeteM » Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:30 pm

Far as I can tell, the prices add up to $10K for that very-full-equipped scope. Plus another 25% or so tariff or (in the good old days) maybe 9% tax equivalent. $11 to $12+K is still a deal compared to a new Nikon Eclipse similarly equipped.

An older Nikon Eclipse E600 with DIC shares one of Grant's complaints (such as a not-perfectly-solid geared stage), but has a better solution for individually matched top-side prisms, a wider choice of objectives (at a price), wonderful focus construction on the mechanical side, Nikon standard condenser options, and perhaps a better way to swap nosepieces (pretty easy swap IMO). However one might spend $6K of time to find the bits for around another $6+K.

It would be great if the Bestscope water immersion objective worked with their DIC. I may have missed your report on that, Grant? Nikon offers a number of WI objectives and matching prisms - but they're very expensive new and very rarely found (and still $$$) used.

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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#11 Post by farnsy » Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:39 pm

PeteM wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:30 pm
It would be great if the Bestscope water immersion objective worked with their DIC. I may have missed your report on that, Grant?
Neither my 60x nor my 100x work with the 40x/100x upper prism and the 20x/40x lower prism. Like a bonehead I didn't buy the 100x lower prism, so I can't test that.

After lengthy internal debate, I decided to buy a used 60X .95 NA (dry) Nikon with a correction collar. I also picked up a 100X fluor water immersion from Radical India. Eventually I will also buy the 100X lower prism. When all this stuff comes in, I will try it all out. I kind of expect the 100X fluor to work with it. The 60x...we'll see.

If I don't show up here because I had to take an additional job, you will know why. :)

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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#12 Post by Scarodactyl » Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:56 am

Now that you have a taste for ultrawide eyepieces you'll need to get 15x UWF ones for your cycloptic too. Then the 10x/25s will seem a little narrow.
I wonder if Nikon prisms could be fit onto this system, not that that would make things much easier or cheaper.

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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#13 Post by PeteM » Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:06 am

My guess is that the Nikon objective-side prisms won't fit. Far as I can tell, Farnsy's scope uses two sliders up top to cover the entire range. Nikon uses a special nosepiece with slots for dedicated prisms (themselves with slight adjustment capability). There must be something like 20 or so upper prism options. In the condenser, my E600 era scope had a total of six prisms available - three for dry condensers and three for oiled condensers. I believe this became two each in the later Eclipse versions; but with even more upper prisms available for fluors, apos, water immersion, longer working distance, etc.

If Nikon nosepieces fit the Bestscope, then it could be the Nikon system would easily adapt. However, from the video it sounded like the Bestscope nosepieces were cumbersome to change - and that hasn't been my experience (once I got used to it) with the Nikon.

Be interesting to see a photo of the Bestscope interchangeable nosepiece fitting, with the dovetail width dimensioned.

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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#14 Post by farnsy » Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:41 am

I may have misrepresented the difficulty of changing the nosepiece. Actually it's not bad, I'm just lazy. I have an e600 now and the difficulty is similar. With the Nikon you have to come up underneath, lift up, and push back. With the BestScope you just insert directly from the front. I would say the e600 is a little easier because the tolerances are looser. With the BestScope, if you go in with the wrong angle of attack, it will go part way in and then get wedged and you can push as hard as you want without making any progress until you back it out a little and straighten it out. Still, neither is difficult if you have a little practice. A bit of lubrication would probably make a big difference too. I just think it's too much of a pain to change both that and the condenser for a single sample. I'd rather have the condenser and the nosepiece all set up in a separate microscope for phase. Actually I wouldn't mind having a dedicated DIC microscope and a separate one for brightfield/pol/darkfield/oblique. These things do tend to proliferate.

I did buy a stereo microscope from BestScope, the BS-3090. It hasn't arrived yet, but it's supposed to come with a 10x/23mm eyepiece. I'll review it when I've played with it a little. The sales person was pitching their Nikon-like inverted microscope too, but I had to draw the line somewhere.

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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#15 Post by Scarodactyl » Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:01 am

Woahhh you got the smz18-alike too? That one looks really promising, though you'll be the first to use it that I've ever heard of.

Thinking about it the DIC system seems to resemble the Olympus BX one more than the Nikon. I wo der if there's any relation there or if it's just a similar design.

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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#16 Post by Phill Brown » Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:37 am

Thanks, Nice easy going review with enough detail.
If I where looking to reinvent my budgeting strategy it is spot on.
You may find the button on the side will disable the sensor on the front if held in for a few seconds.
I have a euromex iscope that claims to switch off when not in use but seems it's a bogus claim.
Has a blue indicator LED but on or off makes no difference.
My main issue with modern Chinese experience is the build quality of the slide clamp.
It's a critical component to get wrong.
Tactile coatings are also likely to degrade into a sticky mess after 10 years.
I have plenty excellent well thought out items from pre 1900 that still perform as intended.
My main concern is todays technology is tomorrows landfill.

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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#17 Post by Chris Dee » Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:35 am

Phill Brown wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:37 am
Thanks, Nice easy going review with enough detail.
If I where looking to reinvent my budgeting strategy it is spot on.
You may find the button on the side will disable the sensor on the front if held in for a few seconds.
I have a euromex iscope that claims to switch off when not in use but seems it's a bogus claim.
Has a blue indicator LED but on or off makes no difference.
My main issue with modern Chinese experience is the build quality of the slide clamp.
It's a critical component to get wrong.
Tactile coatings are also likely to degrade into a sticky mess after 10 years.
I have plenty excellent well thought out items from pre 1900 that still perform as intended.
My main concern is todays technology is tomorrows landfill.
My experience of Chinascopes isn't good either. Although mainstream producers may outsource some of their parts to China I'm pretty sure their production and quality control specifications are far more stringent than those of an unknown Chinese firm with no established background. I wouldn't go as far to say this microscope is tomorrows landfill, but I would question the longevity of moving parts and just what resale value it will have in 10 years. At 10k it's an expensive risk, not one I'd be willing to make.

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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#18 Post by Wes » Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:10 am

How is the image quality like? Do you have some photos taken with the DIC or phase optics?
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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#19 Post by apochronaut » Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:12 pm

The 20X .75 Nikon CFI60 objective I have says made in Japan on it. Perhaps at some point , Nikon changed to a more economical production. Those China made planapos just came onstream about 6 or 8 months ago or so but just the 100X 1.45 and the 20X .75. Maybe they have others now.
I ordered one of those microscopes, the 100 watt halogen version , with 4 objective DIC and oil DF plus an iris equipped oil planachro and a couple of other objectives to fill out a 7 place nosepiece but was told I needed to use a 6 place for the planapos due to their size, so a 2 nosepiece : 6 and 7 place would have eventually been needed were I to have decided to fill out a planapo set as they completed the production. I didn't get into phase, since it would just be duplicating phase systems I already have. I was invoiced but in looking at the package once completed I chose to cancel the purchase. I did however buy a BS-3090, which has features that are much harder to duplicate with a used instrument. There has been a bit of a revolution in stereomicroscope zoom technology. The BS-3090 is around 4,000.00. 1:18 planapo zoom.

The reason I initially gravitated towards the BS-2081 were 3-fold. DIC , field of view and potential future inprovements in objective technology: being able to utilize CFI60 objectives as they eventually showed up on the used market at attainable prices. It was going to cost around 10 grand to get there. It does seem a pretty good system and in a new instrument that price isn't too bad but that is a lot of apples and tomatoes. Much can be had in used instruments for considerably less.

Field of View. The BS-2081 has an optional 25mm f.o.v. and I have to say the idea intrigued me but my current 22mm view is pretty good.Dead sharp and corrected right across the field. That's a lot of money to spend for a little bit of extra field. Probably I can tweak 24mm out of an existing Microstar IV or Diastar by modifying the Seidentopf head to take 30mm eyepieces from a Polyvar. Widefield oil DF, phase and BF is easy with planapo objectives, including planapo phase on a Diastar.
DIC. This was the most compelling reason to buy one. The entire DIC kit was 3700.00 but that didn't include the 4 planfluors, which I had already ordered for it anyway. That's a pretty economical system but.
I eventually opted to build up a PZO Interference Contrast Microscope. That microscope has only the capacity at this point to have an 18mm f.o.v. , also very well corrected across the field but for about 1500.00 here is what it is. Trinocular, 4 objective DIC prism condenser and DIC head, Interference Slit condenser, 4 objective phase condenser, 3 X 5 place interchangeable sliding dovetail nosepieces. The objective complements are 4 DIC planachros, 4 anoptral phase, 4 planapo BF, DF or DIC. Each nosepiece further has a low power scanning objective.

Regarding the potential to utilize other more advanced objectives as they become available. It seems that CFI60 objectives with a little eyepiece changing can work in a Microstar 5 place nosepiece, so I'li go that route if and when necessary but Reichert planapos aren't too shabby. It would take a lot to beat them.

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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#20 Post by Scarodactyl » Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:20 pm

Yeah, I have never seen a used smz18 or smz25 on the market. Smz1500s are available (I currently have one again) but the specs aren't quite as high. I'll be really curious to hear about this scope--interested as I've been in the DIC system the stereo has been a subject of even more frequent speculation.
I'm really curious which objectives y'all got--I have seen mention of objectives specced just like the Nikon 1.6x and 2x (with correcting collar) that would come with the SMZ18 in addition to the base 1x.

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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#21 Post by Dubious » Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:01 pm

Chris Dee wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:35 am
Phill Brown wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:37 am
Thanks, Nice easy going review with enough detail.
If I where looking to reinvent my budgeting strategy it is spot on.
You may find the button on the side will disable the sensor on the front if held in for a few seconds.
I have a euromex iscope that claims to switch off when not in use but seems it's a bogus claim.
Has a blue indicator LED but on or off makes no difference.
My main issue with modern Chinese experience is the build quality of the slide clamp.
It's a critical component to get wrong.
Tactile coatings are also likely to degrade into a sticky mess after 10 years.
I have plenty excellent well thought out items from pre 1900 that still perform as intended.
My main concern is todays technology is tomorrows landfill.
My experience of Chinascopes isn't good either. Although mainstream producers may outsource some of their parts to China I'm pretty sure their production and quality control specifications are far more stringent than those of an unknown Chinese firm with no established background. I wouldn't go as far to say this microscope is tomorrows landfill, but I would question the longevity of moving parts and just what resale value it will have in 10 years. At 10k it's an expensive risk, not one I'd be willing to make.
As technological devices go, optical microscopes occupy an interesting position, being still in essence metal tubes with glass prisms and lenses, based on designs that existed long before the computer age. Viewed that way, I also would bet on the continued longevity of a well-made 40-year old instrument (if in good shape), which has already lasted for decades and is probably good for several more. But, the debate reminds me of a review of floppy disk drives I read in the mid-80s, where the reviewer compared an 8" Shugart drive of mostly metal, tank-like construction to a new, cheap mostly-plastic 5 1/4" drive and gave a thumbs-down to the latter, saying, "Plastic is cheap--metal isn't." Within just a few years, of course, very cheaply made and priced plastic 3 1/2" drives (but with improved storage specs) had pushed both of those aside. So cheap plastic won that war. The situations aren't entirely the same. But, given that most consumers can't afford to buy a new Nikon with DIC but can (almost) afford a "Chinascope" with similar specs including the latest coatings and design, I would expect cheap to win out, whatever the doubts about long-term durability or resale value. A basic BS-2081 with DIC starts at about $6,000+. If Best Scope could get that down to $4,000, I'd probably place my order.

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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#22 Post by Scarodactyl » Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:05 pm

Long term durability is a potential issue with almost any modern microscope. It is not a uniquely Chinese problem.
It's also a bit problematic to lump all chinese productikn into one 'chinascope' label, when there are numerous factories producing items across a very wide range of price points. We're well past the point where big companies are having select components made in China--Zeiss for instance has entire lines outsourced to Motic.

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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#23 Post by apochronaut » Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:37 pm

Dubious wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:01 pm
Chris Dee wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:35 am
Phill Brown wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:37 am
Thanks, Nice easy going review with enough detail.
If I where looking to reinvent my budgeting strategy it is spot on.
You may find the button on the side will disable the sensor on the front if held in for a few seconds.
I have a euromex iscope that claims to switch off when not in use but seems it's a bogus claim.
Has a blue indicator LED but on or off makes no difference.
My main issue with modern Chinese experience is the build quality of the slide clamp.
It's a critical component to get wrong.
Tactile coatings are also likely to degrade into a sticky mess after 10 years.
I have plenty excellent well thought out items from pre 1900 that still perform as intended.
My main concern is todays technology is tomorrows landfill.
My experience of Chinascopes isn't good either. Although mainstream producers may outsource some of their parts to China I'm pretty sure their production and quality control specifications are far more stringent than those of an unknown Chinese firm with no established background. I wouldn't go as far to say this microscope is tomorrows landfill, but I would question the longevity of moving parts and just what resale value it will have in 10 years. At 10k it's an expensive risk, not one I'd be willing to make.
As technological devices go, optical microscopes occupy an interesting position, being still in essence metal tubes with glass prisms and lenses, based on designs that existed long before the computer age. Viewed that way, I also would bet on the continued longevity of a well-made 40-year old instrument (if in good shape), which has already lasted for decades and is probably good for several more. But, the debate reminds me of a review of floppy disk drives I read in the mid-80s, where the reviewer compared an 8" Shugart drive of mostly metal, tank-like construction to a new, cheap mostly-plastic 5 1/4" drive and gave a thumbs-down to the latter, saying, "Plastic is cheap--metal isn't." Within just a few years, of course, very cheaply made and priced plastic 3 1/2" drives (but with improved storage specs) had pushed both of those aside. So cheap plastic won that war. The situations aren't entirely the same. But, given that most consumers can't afford to buy a new Nikon with DIC but can (almost) afford a "Chinascope" with similar specs including the latest coatings and design, I would expect cheap to win out, whatever the doubts about long-term durability or resale value. A basic BS-2081 with DIC starts at about $6,000+. If Best Scope could get that down to $4,000, I'd probably place my order.
They are actually a bit more than that. The DIC kit, and the 4 planfluors plus a couple of other objectives will be about $6,000.00. A basic 6 place stand with a 25mm trino head plus the shipping , tax, duty, brokerage will put the landed cost up around $9,000.00 likely. So, yes. It is a pretty good price for what you are getting but it is not chump change.

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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#24 Post by VishR » Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:25 am

High end Chinese microscope with DIC and PhaseQuote farnsy
by farnsy » Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:44 am

I finally made a video in which I review my BS2081. This is a top-of-the line Chinese microscope. Normally we think of top microscopes only coming from Japan, Europe and a few other spots, with cheap stuff coming from China. However, at a higher price point they have some nice stuff. It's not perfect, nor is the buying process, but I think it deserves some good consideration. That will be more true when the trade war is over (or if you are in a country that doesn't have tariffs on Chinese microscopes).
Very much interested in the BestScope with DIC kit / fluorite objectives. If possible, please post some images shot through the microscope…

Thank you,

Vishnu

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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#25 Post by benjamind2021 » Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:07 am

Yes. Please post some images. No one here can really evaluate the quality without evidence.

As for APS-C sensors - which C-mount lens would one need? Would a 1x suffice or would one need 1.5x ?

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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#26 Post by Scarodactyl » Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:13 am

Nikon objectives are nominally rated to 25mm but will usually cover the 27ish mm diagonal of an aps-c camera without issue (not always, some like the 4x plan apo don't even cover 25mm acceptably, but generally). I'd guess the situation is the same with this setup. So you'd want no intermediate lenses, just the camera directly on the image. This may be a logistical challenge, depending how the head works mechanically.

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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#27 Post by 75RR » Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:20 am

Scarodactyl wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:05 pm
We're well past the point where big companies are having select components made in China--Zeiss for instance has entire lines outsourced to Motic.
Check on Primo Star. Do you have a source for the other "lines"?
Last edited by 75RR on Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#28 Post by farnsy » Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:22 am

75RR wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:20 am
Scarodactyl wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:05 pm
We're well past the point where big companies are having select components made in China--Zeiss for instance has entire lines outsourced to Motic.
Do you have a source for that statement?
The primo star line is made by Motic. Here is some more information.

According to microscope central, the only major manufacturer not making stuff in China is Labomed, because they make it in India.

Not saying how I want things to be, just how they are.
Last edited by farnsy on Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#29 Post by 75RR » Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:23 am

farnsy wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:22 am
75RR wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:20 am
Scarodactyl wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:05 pm
We're well past the point where big companies are having select components made in China--Zeiss for instance has entire lines outsourced to Motic.
Do you have a source for that statement?
The primo star line is made by Motic.
Everyone knows about Primo Star. Scarodactyl said lines!
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Re: High end Chinese microscope with DIC and Phase

#30 Post by Phill Brown » Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:32 am

75RR wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:23 am
farnsy wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:22 am
75RR wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:20 am
Do you have a source for that statement?
The primo star line is made by Motic.
Everyone knows about Primo Star. Scarodactyl said lines!
I don't know much about any of it,it's more of a fact finding and sharing mission than an emotional journey ideally?
An observation is there are used Nikon high end objectives being sold out of China, previously I would assume they are fakes.
My best guess is they don't need ones made in Japan so much now.
Personal experience with Chinese suppliers has often been their part of the contract is to supply something that mostly looks like the picture.

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