Advice for linking Nikon D90 to Nikon Optiphot

[andrewhodgson]

Hi everyone,
I'm brand new to this site and to dedicated photomicroscopy.
I've got a Nikon Optiphot 2 microscope and have long used a Nikon D90 camera, for which I've bought an Amscope C-mount adapter. The only problem is that the C-mount adapter matches the outside of the mount on the scope, i.e. an extra piece is needed to connect them.
Am I right in thinking I need to purchase a Nikon C-mount phototube as well, into which the Amscope adapter will insert?

Forgive my ignorance, but there is such an overwhelming diversity of advice on the internet (often with components at astronomical prices) that I thought a forum of 'real people' as opposed to companies, would offer the best advice.

Many thanks for any help - I have a lot to learn!

[Scarodactyl]

To clarify, did you get a 2x ndpl dslr adapter, or a c mount adapter? A c mount is a 25mm threaded mount used on video cameras with small sensor, you don't need one of those.
A photo of which head you have and which adapter would help a lot in getting you set up.

[andrewhodgson]

Many thanks for replying.

I got this...
https://amscope.co.uk/products/nikon-sl ... lsrc=aw.ds

The microscope has no phototube, just the chrome threaded mount, like the one you can see here:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265009526011 ... gLlFPD_BwE

Hope this helps!
Andrew

[PeteM]

The adapter included with your Optiphot is for a small sensor C-mount camera.

That adapter can be removed. If you already have the AmScope 2x adapter in hand you can try hand holding it above the trinocular port while a specimen is in focus thorugh the eyepieces. This will give you an idea of how much of a spacer you'll need to get the Nikon with the 2x Amscope relay lens attached in focus. Probably 2-3 inches or so. At that point you could make up a spacer, buy the original Nikon piece to fit the head and do less adaptation, or look for something generic on eBay to fit inside the trinocular tube and the Amscope into that.

The AmScope 2x relay lens is affordable and usable but not quite as good in my experience as using the original Nikon 2.5x photo relay lens.

[andrewhodgson]

Many thanks, Pete - that's extremely helpful. Do you have a link for the true Nikon 2.5x?
I'm assuming it's an expensive piece of kit.

I spotted this on eBay - is this necessary too? I'm assuming not.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322460176050

Thank you again,
Andrew

[Scarodactyl]

The original Nikon PL 2.5x is not very expensive (I just sold one on eBay for 40 bucks, though the buyer never paid), though you may find its performance isn't great. The newer PL 2.5XA seems significantly better, and I think the PLI 2.5x is probably better yet though I haven't confirmed 100% compatibility (and there is a 30mm version which will not physically fit your scope).
The photo tube you linked is for a newer Eclipse microscope and not needed.
Just on the off chance, could you upload a picture of your optiphot? The optiphot you linked is actually an Optiphot 100 which is a different beast than a normal optiphot (infinity corrected)--if your scope is one of those the advice is a little different.

[andrewhodgson]

Yes, of course - I'll do it tomorrow as it's night-time here now.
I appreciate your advice very much - I want to get it right, so am happy to be patient.
Best wishes,
Andrew

[MicroBob]

Hi Andrew,
does your camera have an electronic first shutter curtain? It will be difficult to obtain really good results without one.

Bob

[andrewhodgson]

Hi Bob,
The spec says this for a D90:
Electronically-controlled vertical-travel focal-plane shutter

[PeteM]

I think the D90 has live view (mirror up, no shake from that), which should help. The sensor will surely be better than most of the AmScope equivalent microscope cameras. It's likely to have a bit of shake from the shutter curtain - even my somewhat newer D750 isn't immune with its quiet mode and live view.

Not sure how it handles exposure without a lens attached - my assumption is that it will be completely manual mode, which would be OK. Surely worth a try.

[andrewhodgson]

More research, Bob - it seems the D90 doesn't have it.
I would be unlikely to be using very slow shutter speeds, though, if the lighting is good enough.
Will using the open mirror or delay function make the problem less significant?

[andrewhodgson]

Hi Pete,
Yes, live view is fine.
I plan to use this, too, which gets very good reviews:
https://tetherscript.com/controlmynikon-home/

Andrew

[MicroBob]

I had this with my Sony NEX 5 (the original one) . The only thing that worked was to open the shutter, then switch on the LED for a timed period (NE555 chip). Not convenient, I would use a different camera, like Sony NEX 5N.

[andrewhodgson]

I photographed the microscope, as requested, but keep getting the following error message when uploading the images as attachments:
'It was not possible to determine the dimensions of the image. Please verify that the URL you entered is correct'
Odd, as I'm not entering a url - they are discrete photos. The attachment system doesn't seem to work.
Very frustrating...


Anyway, the microscope is identical to this one:
https://www.martinmicroscope.com/produc ... ot-2-used/

I don't have the photo tube shown in that image - it has been changed for a C-mount fitting for an old, defunct Moticam camera.

Thanks for any help,
Andrew

[andrewhodgson]

HI everyone.
Just posting this to bump it up the discussion lists again. I've nothing from people since Thursday.
I'm still none the wiser about what component I actually need to like the Optiphot 2 and my Nikon D90. Some of the pieces suggested seem to be for eyepiece fittings, not the photoport.
Any help or advice would be brilliant.
Thank you.
Andrew

[zzffnn]

Andrew, I don't know about your trinocular head arrangement.

You may try the afocal method. But you would have to buy a Nikon teaching head (that has a light-spliting prism inside), and a monocular head to attach to said teaching head and a D90's lens (preferably the wide field moon head, which looks almost the same as the normal field one but is about 2mm wider in visual view field).

Basically, you glue an eyepiece to a camera lens thread adapter, then thread an adapter onto front of your D90's lens of about 35-40mm in focal length (40 is preferred but 35mm will work).

But I don't know if your Nikon eyepiece can be glue that way. I don't have a Nikon eyepiece anymore.

This is what a Nikon teaching head looks like: https://www.ebay.com/itm/294150084214?c ... 1&mkcid=28

I also don't have my microscope rig set up to show you how. It is currently in a storage unit.

If you are not comfortable figuring out the details yourself, you probably should not try my method.

[PeteM]

Andrew, Your scope (if it's the same as the link) looks to have a resting spot inside for a 2.5x Nikon relay lens. You can likely find examples of how it is coupled to a Nikon camera on the Web, including old 35mm film adapters which can have the internal shutter etc. gutted. Basically, photo relay lens fits inside the tube. Spacers and a Nikon mount go above it. In my case, I use a 2.5x Nikon photo relay lens and then a spacer above the tube about 3" long made from a chopped-up Nikon microscope adapter. Problem is, these are meant for full frame cameras, so you might or might not like the image size you get on APS-C.

You might also want to look up "afocal" projection. With an APS-C camera with a bit of curtain shake, your best bet may be to put a Nikon or other neutral and plan 10x eyepiece in your trinocular tube. It's cumbersome, but your camera shake will be somewhat isolated. You may need pacers to get a regular eyepiece parfocal. Then perch your camera (on a stand or tripod) centered over that eyepiece, and use its lens to take pictures.

An alternative is something like the 2x AmScope photo relay lens, inserted into the trinocular tube, and then mounted directly to your camera. A still better alternative would be a Nikon 2x photo relay optic inserted as in the first paragraph, but they are harder to find.

There's nothing special required in terms of spacers whether you go afocal or through a photo relay lens, whether you find something Nikon or from someone like "Newhoper" on eBay, or make something up yourself. It will help to try out the spacing, whichever way you go, and get a rough idea of how high you need to go -- and then judge your options from there.

This is one of those frustrating deals where once you mess around and figure it out -- all becomes much clearer.

[andrewhodgson]

Thanks both of you.
I have the Amscope adapter so will try that and look into the correct tubes. I'll also look out for the Nikon one.
Are the tubes adjustable in terms of height?

Feel like I'm getting closer to a solution now!
Thanks so much,
Andrew

[andrewhodgson]

The Nikon PLI 2.5x was mentioned was one replyer last week - is that the best to go for?

[zzffnn]

PeteM 's methods will work too. If your trinocular eye tube is long enough to firmly accept/hold onto a visual eyepiece and make it parfocal with eyepiece in the binocular visual eye tube.

Then you can simply align D90 with a ~40mm lens with that eyepiece in trinocular eye tube. Or glue it.

If you do glue it, there is the worry about shutter shake in some situations, even when Live View is used. A mirrorless camera with electronic shutter is preferred though.

With the afocal method and electronic shutter, any camera sensor size can be used. Just use a lens that produces full frame equivalent of about 55-56mm in focal length with said sensor.

[smollerthings]

HI Andrew,

As Pete said, you just need a spacer (basically an empty tube) with one end the photo port on your Nikon microscope, the other end 23.2 mm or 30 or 30.5 mm to fit your Amscope DSLR adapter.

Something like that but for Nikon microscope:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001 ... ccooV&mp=1

(the c-mount can be removed)

You will get the exact optical result plugging the Amscope DSLR adapter into one of your eyepieces. So I recommend you try that first to see if the result is satisfactory. If it is not, you can go the official Nikon route, with an adapter, a projection eyepiece etc...

[smollerthings]

You will get the exact optical result plugging the Amscope DSLR adapter into one of your eyepieces. So I recommend you try that first to see if the result is satisfactory.

One caveat is that you need to make sure it is roughly parfocal with the eyepiece (otherwise, worse optical performance because you will have to refocus and the whole system will be sub-optimal).

My adapter (very similar to your Amscope), wasn't so I had to 3D print a spacer:

[andrewhodgson]

That's so helpful!
I'll have a look. I'm a real novice with techincal camera stuff- by parfocal, do you mean the camera view picks up the precise focus shown through the microscope?
Is it as simple as that?

Sorry to be so uninformed!

[smollerthings]

do you mean the camera view picks up the precise focus shown through the microscope?
Is it as simple as that?

You are right. In my case, using the adapter out of the box wouldn't focus at the same location as the original eyepiece (my left eye piece for comparison). This will compel you to re focus and make your objective lens work at the wrong distance vs the specimen, leading to less than ideal image quality (if the refocusing is significant).

[andrewhodgson]

Thanks very much.
So, to summarise, I have two main options to check:

1) Use my Amscope adapter with some kind of bought/made empty tube, adding extra spacers if necessary.
2) If the Amscope quality isn't great, add the Nikon relay lens in the trinocular port and then put the bare (?) Nikon D90 in live view (or with a lens attached) at a measured distance for parfocality.

Is this correct?
Andrew

[Scarodactyl]

You have two basic options. You can use one of the projective eyepieces (ie, a 2.5x) and then your camera does not need a lens on it. The bare sensor sits a certain distance above the eyepiece. Or you can use a normal eyepiece (a cfwn 10x, a third party 10x/22, or a pl 8x or 10x, which are different from the pl 2.5x) and mount a 40-50mm lens on yoir camera focused to infinity, then mount the lens on top of the eyepiece.
I did some tests of different methods a while back, but given very different subsequent results from another user I wonder if my results would apply with lenses other than the 40mm canon pancake I used. So your mileage may vary viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10883&p=91059

[andrewhodgson]

Thanks - that's very useful.