MicrobeHunter.com Microscopy Forum

Hello everyone,

I present to you my microscope "Bresser" science infinity bought very recently: https://www.bresser.de/fr/Microscopie/M ... ty-30.html
I put quotation marks to the Bresser brand because the brand printed on the microscope is not Bresser but is Teleskop Service, in short, it's an identical clone but cheaper It is "made in China" material with the quality controls that we know. So I checked it element by element and screw by screw and the quality of construction corresponded perfectly to my expectations because there was no poor workmanship

Despite my inexperience in the field of microscopy, I find that the mechanical quality is very correct but I am well aware that it is not a Zeiss, Nikon or Olympus quality microscope.
The materials used are of a very decent quality, the stafit is robust and provides good stability and the mechanical parts are made of quality metal.

The eyepieces are x10 wide field and the objectives are plan achromatic infinity corrected. I was advised on a French forum specializing in the field of microscopy to take this type of lens to take pictures because the characteristic "plan" allows to have sharpness over the entire field and correction to the infinity due to their design, in principle, ensures good optical quality. The processing of the objective lenses is of high quality.

The views in visual mode are of a sharpness that I find impressive! and in photo mode with a Canon 1200D/Rebel T5, the sharpness is decent but does not reflect what is obtained in visual mode. Maybe I should buy a dedicated microscopy camera?

In short, as you have certainly understood, I am delighted with my acquisition and I am discovering the world of microscopy with enormous pleasure!

Sincerely,
Frank

That's is a nice looking scope, Franck!

Would you consider writing in English, if that is an option for you? I don't speak French and had a hard time trying to understand your review.

There are many non native English speakers active on the forum, but English seems to be the way to communicate to each other. My English isn't very good, but people is nice enough around here not to point or care about the mistakes I'm sure I make when writing.

I can't see your condenser in the photo but the scope appears camparable to an Amscope T800 scope. It is very close to their top of the line. You seem to have acquired a very good microscope. Greg

Hello Javier,
Oh ! sorry, now I will write in English Thank you very much for the advice.
If I may say so, in the Chrome internet browser you can translate any language to any language you want.
With Windows, (I don't know how to do with a macintosh but I imagine that the translation function is also present) you right click anywhere on the web page with your mouse and you have the choice down from the drop-down menu that appeared to request the translation.

Hello Greg,
Here is the condenser: I wish you a very nice day
Sincerely,
Frank

Kad sam čitao tvoj post učinilo mi se kao zanimljiva ideja da na forumima ljudi pišu na svom jeziku i koriste translate plugin, ali možda ipak malo nepraktično...

Svakako odlično izgleda mikroskop, malo mi je nedostajalo da kupim isti takav na Teleskop service. Na kraju sam ipak nabavio stari Zeiss GFL.

I'll go back to English now...

Hello imcap,
It is true that if everyone writes in their own language, chrome may not be able to translate all language types at once. It is indeed better to all write in English.
It is true that the microscope looks great

Sincerely,
Frank

Hi Fdupre,

welcome to the forum and congratulations on your purchase of a GREAT microscope. I bought mine 3 years ago along with a USB camera direct from Bresser here in Germany and have not regretted it.
The USB camera is great for still images but is a little slow for video, with that restriction I purchased a Canon DSLR 4000d. It was not so easy connecting it to the trinocular port but I did eventually succeed using a spare 10x eyepiece which I bought with the microscope. I do get a little bit of colour banding with it but it didn't cost anything to try it out.
See here:- viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8052

You would be much better off with this 2x adaptor made specially for their infinity microscope from Bresser:- https://www.bresser.de/Mikroskopie/Mikr ... -2-mm.html

Hello Roldorf,
Thank you for your comment and just like you, I do not regret my purchase
Regarding the 2x adapter, thank you very much for the information because I did not know and I will see it with the greatest interest. I did not find on the internet an example of a photo taken using this adapter but I will continue to search because I am very interested in it !

I also "tinkered" with a homemade adapter with a Barlow x3 lens: and with the Canon 1200D DSLR directly placed on the trinocular port:
but if with the adapter you get better results, then I think I'll buy it.

Sincerely,
Frank

Thanks, Franck.

In my experience, no camera will reflect what one sees through the eyepieces. Your videos seem very nice though.

Hi Frank,
good idea to switch over to English! We have quite a bunch of near undecipherable native languages assembled here and using english is probably the least painful solution.

Many Canon DSLRs are highly regarded as microscope cameras because they were among the first to have EFSC, electronic first shutter cutain. I don't know whether your model has, but you might be able to find it out like this:
https://photographylife.com/what-is-ele ... anon-dslrs

Other cameras produce a mechanical shock before the exposure with their shutter (independent from the mirror shock). This blurrs the images and limits image sharpness. Few dedicated microscope cameras can compete with an ancient Canon 500D from 2009 or so, it has EFSC.

For best image quality it is necessary to have a look at the colour correction of the optics. In some cases a residual error is finally corrected by the eyepieces, and this correction should idealy be present in the camera adaptation too. To check whether your microscope uses correction eyepieces you can pull one out, point it towards a light surface and look at the field stop. When there is a yellow fringe it is a correction eyepiece. I don't know whether Bresse is aware of these optical details though...

Bob

Hello Javier, hello Bob,
Thank you very much for your feedback.
Bob, your remarks are very very interesting. I will study this closely.
Sincerely,
Frank

Bob,
I just checked and regarding my Canon DSLR which is a 1200D/Rebel T5, it doesn't have this feature. I'm going to see if I can do something with one of my Nikon DSLRs that has this feature.
I also just checked the eyepieces of the microscope and I didn't notice any yellow fringe at the level of the field stop, only the traditional red and green anti-reflex coatings.
Thank you again for your valuable advice.

Sincerely,
Frank

Hi Frank,
as far as I know Nikon has made comparatively few DSLRs with EFSC, mainly the newest APS-C and some full format ones.
or your infinity optics microscope it would be typical to use non-correctin eyepieces. The ideal way to adapt a camera would be to put the sensor exactly in the plane of the intermediate image in the photo tube, no aditional optics needed. But this would depend whether the photo tube and you mechanical skills would allow you to get it into this position. The tube diameter is probably 22,2 RMS size, so an APS-C camera would fit best. Ideally it shoud be a fairly flat camera with small distance flange - sensor. A good and fairly cheap solution would be a SONY NEX 5N (the N is important).

Bob

Thanks for the feedback Bob,

So, I'm going to see to buy a second-hand Canon 500D.

Regarding the adaptation of the canon SLR, I did exactly as you described. That is to say that I put the Canon without optics and directly placed on the photo tube of the trinoculare head so, the sensor is at the right distance provided by the manufacturer: I also made another edit like this: with a 3x Barlow to bring the focal point back to the sensor.
It magnifies about 4.5x more but the images remain very acceptable.

Roldorf advised me to acquire this in order to be able to connect the SLR and thus have an even better quality image: https://www.bresser.de/Mikroskopie/Mikr ... -2-mm.html
which is very interesting

Sincerely,
Frank

One important point is always to have parfocality between observation and camera. Not only for convenience but the objective would otherwise be used in the wrong focus position and not as it was calculated.

MicroBob wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:19 pm

One important point is always to have parfocality between observation and camera. Not only for convenience but the objective would otherwise be used in the wrong focus position and not as it was calculated.

absolutely agree. What I don't have with my 2 adaptations!
I hope to find a solution but apparently, it should be good with this: https://www.bresser.de/Mikroskopie/Mikr ... -2-mm.html

What do you think Bob?

Sincerely,
Frank

Concerning the EFSC function, I come back after some internet research on my DSLR 1200D/Rebel T5 and apparently, the electronic front curtain shutter function is by default active on this type of DSLR and cannot be deactivated if i believe and if I understand correctly the specs that Canon gives on their website : https://www.canon-europe.com/for_home/p ... ation.html
(see the section "SHUTTER Type" where it is marked : "Electronically-controlled focal-plane shutter, with electronic first curtain")

Did I understand correctly ? if not i will still be interested in seeing to acquire a not too expensive Canon 500D

friendly,
Frank

Hi are you using the Canon EOS Utility software? It allows you to trigger the shutter remotely. You can find the latest version here:- https://www.canon.co.uk/support/consume ... 14-1142579

This will allow you to use live view mode so you can see what the camera sees before you capture the image.

Yes your EOS 1200d does have live view mode

Roldorf wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 31, 2022 5:17 pm

Bonjour utilisez-vous le logiciel Canon EOS Utility ?

Hello Röldorf,
yes, I use it all the time. I find it very practical.
Do you think it solves the problem of blur due to the shutter mentioned judiciously by Bob?

I see the TS label on the front. I know they don't make things themselves but I have several TS Apo refractor telescopes and their optics are very good

Louise

fdupre wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:51 pm

I hope to find a solution but apparently, it should be good with this: https://www.bresser.de/Mikroskopie/Mikr ... -2-mm.html

What do you think Bob?

Sincerely,
Frank

Hi Frank,
I don't know your microscope and this adapter. In theory you should get the best image when the sensor picks up the intermediate image without any additonal optics. The intermediate image is perhaps 10mm below the end of a tube where a parfocal image is formed when an eyepiece is inserted. But in practice this may be difficult to arrange, at least without lathe and 3D printer. And an adapter with optics might work very well. A 2x adapter should form an image circle of 44mm diameter and the APS-C frame is about 17x23. So the image circle will not be used very well. No problem when only small objects are photographed. But when photographing plant sections one stops to be so generous and takes care to fit the image size to sensor size well.

@Roldorf: Can you post an image that shows how much of the image is covered with this adapter?

About camera choice: With an DSLR it makes the most sense to release from live view. But most cameras close and reopen the shutter before exposure, introducing a fairly heavy shock that blurrs the image. Cameras with EFSC don't do this, they start image capture electronically. It might well be that your camera has it on as default, but I don't know. There are few photography situations where it would be better to switch EFSC off, so it would be a good idea to have it on. Most Canons like 500D... had it but not all.

Bob

Canons have efcs when you are in live view. This certainly includes the t5.

Hi the shutter is already open, that's how you get the live view, all the camera then does is store the image and because it is done remotely from the computer screen there is no shock on the camera. The photo was captured using live view on my Canon 4000d. I am still using the 10x eyepiece as I have never bothered to get the 2x adapter. At the time I made up the adaptor, Bresser didn't sell the 2x.

Hello Louise,
I too have astro equipment from them and I absolutely agree with you, TS is a very good seller.
https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/pr ... 1000x.html

Hello Bob,
I did a test with the Canon 1200D/Reblel T5 and indeed, it closes its mirror and reopens it when shooting in liveview mode or when the Canon is connected via the PC. I also have a Canon 5D mk II that has the EFSC and I'm going to do a test. . .

Hello Roldorf,
Your pictures are well done. I recognize the good quality of the images that the science infinity microscope gives.
Does your Canon 4000D close and open its mirror if you take a picture via PC?

Sincerely,
Frank

Hi I will remove the camera and have a look at what actually happens when I take a shot.

Edit: When using live view the mirror does not move. ie the mirror is 'locked up' so there is no vibration. It also has an electronic first curtain shutter.

(From photo stack exchange):

"Additionally on many camera's you can use electronic first curtain shutter (EFCS) when in live view. This reduces the vibration even further by only actuating the mechanical shutter at the end of the exposure. On Canon camera's this is normally called "Silent Mode 1" in live view".

Edit 2: In the next few days I will take an image of the same slide with both of my cameras, the 18 mpx 4000d and the 5 mpx usb camera so that we have a comparison and post them here.
Hopefully that will help you.

Roldorf wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:57 pm

Edit 2: In the next few days I will take an image of the same slide with both of my cameras, the 18 mpx 4000d and the 5 mpx usb camera so that we have a comparison and post them here.
Hopefully that will help you.

Great ! thank you very much Roldorf


Update :
I correct, with my apologies, what I said about the triggering of my Canon 1200D when piloted via PC in liveview mode.

Indeed, I had stupidly done my test with a speed much too fast (1/200 of a second) which did not allow me to clearly see what was happening at the start of the trigger and at its end and so I stupidly thought that the mirror was moving at the beginning and at the end of the exposure.

So I redid a test with much slower speeds of the order of 2 to 10 seconds and I could see that nothing moved at the beginning of the pose. The mirror that is up stays up and the shutter that is up also stays up since the Canon is in liveview mode.
In short, at the beginning of the exposure, we can see the sensor directly and nothing moves, we only hear a very small noise that I could not explain and it is only at the end of the exposure that the mirror lowers and rises.

On the other hand, why the mirror lowers and goes up at the end of the exposure, that, I do not know ???

Sincerely,
Franck

fdupre wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:06 pm

Roldorf wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:57 pm

Edit 2: In the next few days I will take an image of the same slide with both of my cameras, the 18 mpx 4000d and the 5 mpx usb camera so that we have a comparison and post them here.
Hopefully that will help you.

Great ! thank you very much Roldorf


Update :
I correct, with my apologies, what I said about the triggering of my Canon 1200D when piloted via PC in liveview mode.

Indeed, I had stupidly done my test with a speed much too fast (1/200 of a second) which did not allow me to clearly see what was happening at the start of the trigger and at its end and so I stupidly thought that the mirror was moving at the beginning and at the end of the exposure.

So I redid a test with much slower speeds of the order of 2 to 10 seconds and I could see that nothing moved at the beginning of the pose. The mirror that is up stays up and the shutter that is up also stays up since the Canon is in liveview mode.
In short, at the beginning of the exposure, we can see the sensor directly and nothing moves, we only hear a very small noise that I could not explain and it is only at the end of the exposure that the mirror lowers and rises.

On the other hand, why the mirror lowers and goes up at the end of the exposure, that, I do not know ???

Sincerely,
Franck

Canon DSLRs have frequently been used for astrophotography with the long exposures (minutes!) that Liveview allows. You shouldn't have a shutter shake problem with using Liveview on a microscope. But it's important to ensure the microscope is seated on a solid base and no external vibrations are transmitted to the assembly during exposures. I generally go for a fairly short exposure (<1s) possibly with the aid of a high brightness illumination source e.g. a bright variable, LED.

Louise

Here the shutter shock of the Canon 450D is measured:
https://www.mikroskopie-forum.de/index.php?topic=1267.0

MicroBob wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:00 pm

Here the shutter shock of the Canon 450D is measured:
https://www.mikroskopie-forum.de/index.php?topic=1267.0

There's no shutter shock/vibration with Liveview

Louise

Hello Louise,
Apparently, there would be a very small "shock" which would correspond to the very small noise that I hear at the start of the exposure, but this shock is apparently so minimal that it could not influence the sharpness of the shot.
friendly,
Franck