Fifty Phase Stage Compatibility

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MicroscopyLearning
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Fifty Phase Stage Compatibility

#1 Post by MicroscopyLearning » Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:36 am

Hello. I was wondering if the stage from the AO Fifty Phase Microscope could be attached to the body of the Series 10. I did some research and found that the stage of the Series 10 comes off with a lever, but I was wondering if the stage further comes apart in a way where the stage of another could be put on. The goal is to take the phase components of the Fifty Phase and add them to the Series 10. Any help on this is much appreciated.

dtsh
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Re: Fifty Phase Stage Compatibility

#2 Post by dtsh » Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:51 am

MicroscopyLearning wrote:
Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:36 am
Hello. I was wondering if the stage from the AO Fifty Phase Microscope could be attached to the body of the Series 10. I did some research and found that the stage of the Series 10 comes off with a lever, but I was wondering if the stage further comes apart in a way where the stage of another could be put on. The goal is to take the phase components of the Fifty Phase and add them to the Series 10. Any help on this is much appreciated.
Not without some significant modification. I have a One-Fifty Phase, which shares much of the same design as the Fifty and I have an Ten, also with phase. If some images and measurements would be helpful let me know. I also have a spare stage from a 150 (non-phase) if you want to see how it mounts without having to remove yours. Also, if you remove the stage you will need a phase telescope to realign it.
If your Fifty has a mechanical stage, I'd suggest just accepting it as-is. I believe (but haven't verified) the annuli can be removed from the Fifty and placed into either the single phase condenser or the turret, but I don't think there's an easy way to use the Fifty's turret on the 10. Of course the objectives transfer over without issue.

The 10's stage mounts on a dovetail, the 50's stage is secured by two allen bolts.

apochronaut
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Re: Fifty Phase Stage Compatibility

#3 Post by apochronaut » Fri Mar 11, 2022 12:25 pm

I think you will find that the condenser and diaphragm combination won't provide a correct image of the diaohragms to the series 10 phase objectives, even if you did manage to make it fit.
The 160mm diaphragm diameters are quite different than those of the infinity corrected diaphragms.

In such circumstances you still get an image and sometimes it looks like a phase image but it is more often than not out of sync.enough that there is a destruction of the image and the resolution suffers becoming less than that of BF.

MicroscopyLearning
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Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:50 pm

Re: Fifty Phase Stage Compatibility

#4 Post by MicroscopyLearning » Wed Mar 16, 2022 9:39 pm

dtsh wrote:
Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:51 am
MicroscopyLearning wrote:
Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:36 am
Hello. I was wondering if the stage from the AO Fifty Phase Microscope could be attached to the body of the Series 10. I did some research and found that the stage of the Series 10 comes off with a lever, but I was wondering if the stage further comes apart in a way where the stage of another could be put on. The goal is to take the phase components of the Fifty Phase and add them to the Series 10. Any help on this is much appreciated.
Not without some significant modification. I have a One-Fifty Phase, which shares much of the same design as the Fifty and I have an Ten, also with phase. If some images and measurements would be helpful let me know. I also have a spare stage from a 150 (non-phase) if you want to see how it mounts without having to remove yours. Also, if you remove the stage you will need a phase telescope to realign it.
If your Fifty has a mechanical stage, I'd suggest just accepting it as-is. I believe (but haven't verified) the annuli can be removed from the Fifty and placed into either the single phase condenser or the turret, but I don't think there's an easy way to use the Fifty's turret on the 10. Of course the objectives transfer over without issue.

The 10's stage mounts on a dovetail, the 50's stage is secured by two allen bolts.
Thank you for the reply. Do you think that the base of the Fifty Phase could come off, I know that the Series 10's base can. I looked and could not find anything that would indicate that it would come off, but wanted to ask. Also, do you know of any different heads that could fit onto the Fifty Phase?

dtsh
Posts: 977
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 6:06 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Fifty Phase Stage Compatibility

#5 Post by dtsh » Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:31 am

MicroscopyLearning wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 9:39 pm
Thank you for the reply. Do you think that the base of the Fifty Phase could come off, I know that the Series 10's base can. I looked and could not find anything that would indicate that it would come off, but wanted to ask. Also, do you know of any different heads that could fit onto the Fifty Phase?
The base? Both the 10 and 50 have cast aluminum stands. If you mean the illuminator, that is removable on the 10, but built-in on the 50. Aside from salvaging the objectives and annuli for another scope, I don't see much benefit to dismantling the Fifty. Also, it appears I may be mistaken and the Fifty may use 160mm TL objectives, which means it would be incompatible with the 10. I would have sworn I had a 50 through here and it was infinity, but my memory is not perfectly reliable. Do you see any Cat #s on the objectives? That would answer the question of 160 vs infinity, but apochronaut seems to think it's 160mm and I'd trust him over me.

MicroscopyLearning
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:50 pm

Re: Fifty Phase Stage Compatibility

#6 Post by MicroscopyLearning » Sat Mar 19, 2022 1:57 am

dtsh wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:31 am
MicroscopyLearning wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 9:39 pm
Thank you for the reply. Do you think that the base of the Fifty Phase could come off, I know that the Series 10's base can. I looked and could not find anything that would indicate that it would come off, but wanted to ask. Also, do you know of any different heads that could fit onto the Fifty Phase?
The base? Both the 10 and 50 have cast aluminum stands. If you mean the illuminator, that is removable on the 10, but built-in on the 50. Aside from salvaging the objectives and annuli for another scope, I don't see much benefit to dismantling the Fifty. Also, it appears I may be mistaken and the Fifty may use 160mm TL objectives, which means it would be incompatible with the 10. I would have sworn I had a 50 through here and it was infinity, but my memory is not perfectly reliable. Do you see any Cat #s on the objectives? That would answer the question of 160 vs infinity, but apochronaut seems to think it's 160mm and I'd trust him over me.
My fifty phase uses infinity corrected objectives, so I would assume the whole system is infinity corrected. Is the Series 10 also an infinity corrected microscope?

dtsh
Posts: 977
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 6:06 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Fifty Phase Stage Compatibility

#7 Post by dtsh » Sat Mar 19, 2022 3:55 am

MicroscopyLearning wrote:
Sat Mar 19, 2022 1:57 am
dtsh wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:31 am
The base? Both the 10 and 50 have cast aluminum stands. If you mean the illuminator, that is removable on the 10, but built-in on the 50. Aside from salvaging the objectives and annuli for another scope, I don't see much benefit to dismantling the Fifty. Also, it appears I may be mistaken and the Fifty may use 160mm TL objectives, which means it would be incompatible with the 10. I would have sworn I had a 50 through here and it was infinity, but my memory is not perfectly reliable. Do you see any Cat #s on the objectives? That would answer the question of 160 vs infinity, but apochronaut seems to think it's 160mm and I'd trust him over me.
My fifty phase uses infinity corrected objectives, so I would assume the whole system is infinity corrected. Is the Series 10 also an infinity corrected microscope?
If it's infinity, then it will be the same infinity as the 10 uses. You'd need one of the phase condensers for the 10, there's the single annuli condenser and the turret condenser. Once you had that you could salvage the objectives and annuli from the 50. Mind you, I haven't done this; so there could be surprises I am ignorant of, but it is likely straightforward.

MicroscopyLearning
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:50 pm

Re: Fifty Phase Stage Compatibility

#8 Post by MicroscopyLearning » Sat Apr 02, 2022 5:48 pm

dtsh wrote:
Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:51 am
MicroscopyLearning wrote:
Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:36 am
Hello. I was wondering if the stage from the AO Fifty Phase Microscope could be attached to the body of the Series 10. I did some research and found that the stage of the Series 10 comes off with a lever, but I was wondering if the stage further comes apart in a way where the stage of another could be put on. The goal is to take the phase components of the Fifty Phase and add them to the Series 10. Any help on this is much appreciated.
Not without some significant modification. I have a One-Fifty Phase, which shares much of the same design as the Fifty and I have an Ten, also with phase. If some images and measurements would be helpful let me know. I also have a spare stage from a 150 (non-phase) if you want to see how it mounts without having to remove yours. Also, if you remove the stage you will need a phase telescope to realign it.
If your Fifty has a mechanical stage, I'd suggest just accepting it as-is. I believe (but haven't verified) the annuli can be removed from the Fifty and placed into either the single phase condenser or the turret, but I don't think there's an easy way to use the Fifty's turret on the 10. Of course the objectives transfer over without issue.

The 10's stage mounts on a dovetail, the 50's stage is secured by two allen bolts.
Thank you for the reply. You mentioned that I would have to realign the stage. Before making this thread I was unaware of this and had already taken the stage off, and I had put it on without a phase telescope and it seems to be fine. Would you still recommend using a phase telescope to realign it?

dtsh
Posts: 977
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 6:06 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Fifty Phase Stage Compatibility

#9 Post by dtsh » Sat Apr 02, 2022 10:57 pm

MicroscopyLearning wrote:
Sat Apr 02, 2022 5:48 pm
Thank you for the reply. You mentioned that I would have to realign the stage. Before making this thread I was unaware of this and had already taken the stage off, and I had put it on without a phase telescope and it seems to be fine. Would you still recommend using a phase telescope to realign it?
If it looks good, it's probably good enough. There's very little adjustability in the design. The turret doesn't have any adjustable centering, so the only way I know to align it is to loosen the two stage retaining bolts and nudge into alignment; the only adjustment in the other plane is to shim it. If you don't have a phase telescope you can eyeball it until you notice phase or figure out how two eyepieces can be used as one. Plenty of ways of doing it, but a centering telescope is a handy thing.

apochronaut
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Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 12:15 am

Re: Fifty Phase Stage Compatibility

#10 Post by apochronaut » Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:19 pm

My recollection is that the 50 used a physically , slightly modified version of the series 4 phase condenser, not one based on the series 10/20 #1240 body. I believe it was a cat. # 155 body with a similar tiny condenser such as the 4 used, and the student phase objectives were designed to it's focal lengths. I have interchanged the 1240/42 into a series 4 and the series 4 condenser # 250/302, into a series 10 in the past. Despite the dovetails being the same, the physical height of the two condensers is very different. The # 250/302 series 4 condenser for instance could not be brought into Köhler on the 10 and despite the possibility of establishing köhler with the 1240/42 on the series 4 stand, when so, the back focal distance was off and the background remained brown, rather than grey with not good overlaps between the diaphragms and the phase rings.

I did not try the medium working distance # 1243 or L.W.D. 1244 condensers, nor did I try a dry series 100 1.25 abbe aspheric or the #1201 .90 achromat aplanat. Any of those might possibly work better than a # 1242 S.W.D. condenser and all have the same thread, which fits the # 1240 phase condenser housing. The series 4 # 250 housing and the series 50 # 155 housing have a smaller thread, so despite them being structurally almost identical to the # 1240, they can only receive a few condenser lens packs. #302 is the standard one I think but those were often not marked with any numbers, so sometimes an examination of the condenser is necessary in order to determine it's working distance. #303 was medium working distance and # 306 was long working distance. Sometimes, as was the case in the day for B.F. condensers, it was recommended that the top element be removed in order to get the correct focus or field coverage for certain longer working distance circumstances.

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