sony cameras

What equipment do you use? Post pictures and descriptions of your microscope(s) here!
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henryr
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sony cameras

#1 Post by henryr » Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:32 pm

Has anyone tried the sony, nex or alpha series, small cameras with on a scope? They are specified as having the CMOS APS-C sensor and would think that would be very good attached to a microscope. Much smaller and lighter weight than a full sized DSLR, of which many seem to have the same sized sensor. What am I missing or not understanding?

I might??? consider the sony nex or alpha, instead of a dedicated USB touptek. However, in an earlier post I mentioned I really don't need another regular hand held camera (got three). My fave is my 1975 Nikon F2AS with a large assortment of their best lenses. I've looked at many posts on this site and photomacrography.net and it seems most lean toward using a DLSR or other hand held cameras. I would have thought there would be more touting the toutek type cameras. Why is that not the case?

apochronaut
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Re: sony cameras

#2 Post by apochronaut » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:38 pm

All I can say is, for me, the Sony alpha 5000 is almost perfect. I found a remote shutter release for 1.95 out of China, bought into a few adapters , and had some made up for me by rafcamera , which raf has now listed on his site , The action is smooth and vibration free and the swinging screen makes viewing from the position of the eyepieces , effortless. The only qualm, I have is that I move the camera around from microscope to microscope and I am still perfecting the couplings, so I haven't gotten around to parfocalizing the camera perfectly on any one. Focusing is a little difficult on very small and or low contrast subjects.

Here is a a set of pictures, I posted in mid July on another forum of samples from a peculiar pond, I know. I also posted some of these and some different ones here, on the same day, I think.
It is worthy of note that the objective is 100X oil and when the pictures are viewed on a 15 or 17 inch monitor, they are pretty close to the 1000X , that they presented through the microscope.

http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?t=28126

( picture 2, I now know to be a species of anaerobic sulphur bacteria, likely one of the beggiatoa...this one was a big one at about 6 microns in diameter! some are barely 2). The luminescent inclusions in the beggiatoa strand are sulphur particles. Since the strand is around 6 microns, some of the inclusions are not even 1 micron with even less resolved distance between them, and the alpha 5000 captured that detail quite accurately. I posted these in an as captured fashion with no post processing. The image was captured direct to sensor, through the trinocular port of a Reichert Diastar. At the time I had a fairly crude set up and was using a pretty beat up factory photo attachment , with the shutter and lens removed. The original dust plate was left inside the dovetail attachment because it is glued in place. That is where the specs, that are seen in each picture originate. I either failed to remove them or they were not removeable...can't remember. I don't use that system on that microscope anymore.

As an added comment; you will come across a lot of comments about vibration problems associated with the mirror on DSLRs. Obviously, this also has something to do with the camera mount's rigidity. They are definitely problematic, with an afocal mount or on light microscopes. When I acquired the Sony, I looked at DSLRs and there was very little in the same price category that looked to equal it's potential, which I later feel it pretty much meets.

rmb
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Re: sony cameras

#3 Post by rmb » Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:09 pm

Apo
I see this is a long ago post. My tucsen camera refuses to work with my new pc and this has put me off buying a more recent c mount usb camera. I was fancying an alpha 5000 as a replacement. The tucsen screwed directly onto the c mount thread of the ao phototube and was parfocal. I am almost afraid to ask but, with a suitable e to c mount adapter connecting the sony do i need any other lenses in the way. The tucsen seemed to work ok without anything. Sadly i will lose the live view option on the PC offered by the tucsen software and the 5000 isn,t supported by the sony imaging software they've released for later cameras. (although i see mention of something called Locano?). Have you tried using the android sony wifi app?

This is a low cost tryout and i my fabricating skills are are on the lower scales of bodgery
Thank you

apochronaut
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Re: sony cameras

#4 Post by apochronaut » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:17 pm

I never tried the WiFi app. I am unfamiliar with Locano.
As far as the photo relay lens required, I use one in the top of the photo tube. Is this an AO 10 ?

rmb
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Re: sony cameras

#5 Post by rmb » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:56 pm

A venerable A020 with trinocular head and a genuine phototube which made the view on the computer monitor screen acceptably parfocal. (I have also gimmicked up a phototube using an AO adjustable eyepiece holder from an old head. It wedges into the trinocular port. I have a clamp on c mount thread that grips the threaded end of the eyepiece and the tucsen screwed onto that. Allows one to adjust the phototube length)
I never used any eyepiece between tucsen camera and microscope having no way to fit one in there. Maybe i would have got better pictures. I dont think the tucsen has a lens in front of the sensor. I have a feeling you are about to tell me this is going to get a lot more complicated using the sony

rmb
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Re: sony cameras

#6 Post by rmb » Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:48 pm

I have now attached a sony alpha 5000 to the trinocular tube using an e mount to c mount adaptor. The thread on the tube gets a bit close to the sensor. the only things between the camera sensor and the thing on the slide is the objective and the telan lens in the head of the AO20 - an infinity scope. I should say the photographs are at least as good as those with the 5Meg Tucsen camera. The camera is parfocal enough. I tried a couple of the eyepiece to c mount adapters with a x1 and a .45x magnification in them but i don't think they improved anything.
I would observe that only part of the sensor must be getting illuminated so i am never going to get the 20Meg it is capable of - the digital zoom fills the screen only.. Also the fold up screen - whilst giving a live view with no perceptible lag - the view is pretty small - you almost need another microscope to see if things are in focus on it. shutter release involves a mirror clank but the mounting is secure so vibration is not an issue.
so far I've stuck with the various auto options on the camera and that seems to do for the lighting. i have ordered remote release.
the camera body was much cheaper than a cmount usb style camera - i am worried about these working with my new NUC computer.
Later sony alpha cameras are able to work tethered (all the cannon ones already are but their bodies are much bigger) and this is how i worked before. what you saw on the PC monitor was what you got. so i miss that. but with my LED battery powered lighting and this camera I am truly portable/mains independant - until the batteries run out. All for about £100.

I will get a c mount USB - probably a risingcam one - eventually...

Seta
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Re: sony cameras

#7 Post by Seta » Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:03 pm

Look for a A5100, just bought a new one with kit lens for 350€ ( I plan to sell the kit lens) I also own a Nex-5N.

Feature I like most is touch focus, you touch anywhere in the screen and it zooms in. Another nice feature is hdmi out, I have a small 1080p flat tv just for that.

A5100 has cable remote only, I added rca so I can connect it to my motorized stacking controller.

farnsy
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Re: sony cameras

#8 Post by farnsy » Mon May 17, 2021 6:25 am

The Sony a5100 is pretty much the perfect camera for microscopy.
  • it's cheap
  • no mirror to worry about
  • crazy lightweight and small...important on some microscopes
  • has clean HDMI out, so you can run an HDMI cable directly to a monitor and not see a bunch of camera settings
  • flip up screen in case you are not using hdmi
  • can be controlled from an app on your phone to take videos and pictures when you want without you touching it
  • was very popular, so there are lots of them on the secondary market
  • old enough that people are upgrading out of it, new enough that it has excellent imaging and video
Earlier models didn't have some of these features (like clean hdmi out) and later models are too expensive. Get a DC battery adapter can you can use it all day/month/year without worrying about replacing batteries. The only downside is that microscope adapters for it are not as common as they are for canon and nikon. But you can still find them.

These features also make it a desirable webcam replacement. I have one on my microscope and one at my streaming setup.

Seta
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Re: sony cameras

#9 Post by Seta » Wed May 19, 2021 10:24 am

I have found out that the shutter shock on the A5100 (and other cameras) will make water samples move due to vibrations going to the slide through the immersion oil, no problem with air lenses. This is why I would recommend a camera with full electronic shutter for Oil objectives, I found a very cheap Nikon J1 (20€) and works OK but no video possible without chipped lens

I will probably end up getting either a EOS M6, Sony A6300/A6100 or M4/3 for microscopy but I may also try to suspend the camera on top of the microscope first without touching it

Sir
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Re: sony cameras

#10 Post by Sir » Wed May 19, 2021 11:18 am

I don't think it's been mentioned here yet, but Sony uses the term EFCS (Electronic Front Curtain Shutter) to refer to this. The ability to turn this ON this feature is very useful for reducing any sort of vibration as others have suggested.

MicroBob
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Re: sony cameras

#11 Post by MicroBob » Wed May 19, 2021 1:25 pm

The only Sony APS-C cameras without EFSC were the NEX 3 and NEX 5. A NEX 5N already has a shutter that releases vibration free. Of cause there is a shutter shock after the eposure which can be before the next exposure, especially when taking image stacks. The NIKON 1J5 has a much better image quality than the earlier Nikon Ones and fully electronic shutter. The fully electronic shutters have a tendency to have problems with moving subjects, the cameras with EFSC not.

Bob

apochronaut
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Re: sony cameras

#12 Post by apochronaut » Wed May 19, 2021 1:42 pm

rmb wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:48 pm
I have now attached a sony alpha 5000 to the trinocular tube using an e mount to c mount adaptor. The thread on the tube gets a bit close to the sensor. the only things between the camera sensor and the thing on the slide is the objective and the telan lens in the head of the AO20 - an infinity scope. I should say the photographs are at least as good as those with the 5Meg Tucsen camera. The camera is parfocal enough. I tried a couple of the eyepiece to c mount adapters with a x1 and a .45x magnification in them but i don't think they improved anything.
I would observe that only part of the sensor must be getting illuminated so i am never going to get the 20Meg it is capable of - the digital zoom fills the screen only.. Also the fold up screen - whilst giving a live view with no perceptible lag - the view is pretty small - you almost need another microscope to see if things are in focus on it. shutter release involves a mirror clank but the mounting is secure so vibration is not an issue.
so far I've stuck with the various auto options on the camera and that seems to do for the lighting. i have ordered remote release.
the camera body was much cheaper than a cmount usb style camera - i am worried about these working with my new NUC computer.
Later sony alpha cameras are able to work tethered (all the cannon ones already are but their bodies are much bigger) and this is how i worked before. what you saw on the PC monitor was what you got. so i miss that. but with my LED battery powered lighting and this camera I am truly portable/mains independant - until the batteries run out. All for about £100.

I will get a c mount USB - probably a risingcam one - eventually...
I completely missed this post. Apologies, I should have replied earlier.
You need a photo optic in the top of the trinicular tube. A #176 eyepiece works fine enough but I use a photo framing or measuring eyepiece with the reticle removed. I made that decision way back, probably before I added in the helical focuser, mainly due to the small amount of trimming the little eyepiece focuser has. Perhaps there is a slightly larger field. Nevertheless, the 10/20 telan lens does not perfectly correct, requiring a little help in the eyepiece. You can't get a great image, just picking it off of the telan lens. The illumination is terrible too. Putting a projection lens at the top of that tube, solves all ills.
I then clamp on an adapter of some description. Those old eyepiece microscope adapters made by camera mfg. are good. then convert from whatever the adapter ends with to the Sony bayonet with a short helical focuser in between to trim the image circle size. The 176 eyepiece projects an image circle that is very close to the size of the APS-C sensor, so an image capture quite close to the actual view on the sensor is possible. I found the focusing easy on the articulating screen, using the focus magnifier. Do you not use that?
Once attached, the entire camera attachment can be moved up and down the trinocular tube , and as well finely adjusted with the helical focuser, to get the maximum image circle possible with parfocality.

You can't just put any lens in that photo tube. Certainly not those .5X lenses designed to reduce everything down to go on a postage stamp sized sensor. I have found the standard 10X eyepieces to work best.

To get the entire f.o.v. with 16:9 aspect ratio corners out to the edge of the field, the distance from the cast boss on the trinocular tube to the sensor is about 210mm. In order to get parfocality I find I have to lift the eyepiece some above the tube but I always find that I trim the focus with the focus magnifier anyway, so I don't usually worry about that. However, to get parfocality the top of the eyelens ends up being about 155mm above that same cast boss on the trinocular.
Using the cable release, I haven't found the A5000 to put up any vibration at all, when attached in this way.
I haven't done any pictures for a couple of years with that set up but here are some old ones I came across with a quick search. The field pictured covers the maximum possible eyepiece view.

https://www.microbehunter.com/microscop ... f=5&t=3728
Last edited by apochronaut on Wed May 19, 2021 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BramHuntingNematodes
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Re: sony cameras

#13 Post by BramHuntingNematodes » Wed May 19, 2021 2:30 pm

apochronaut wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 1:42 pm

You can't just put any lens in that photo tube. Certainly not those .5X lenses designed to reduce everything down to go on a postage stamp sized sensor.
That's far too generous. I haven't even seen any ration stamps the size of a 1/2 sensor. The type of sensor those reduction lenses work well for has a tenth the area of an APS-C sensor which has quite a bit less than half the area of a full frame sensor. They don't look great, but trying to use an older setup designed for 35mm film with a 1/2 sensor without reduction is quite difficult.
1942 Bausch and Lomb Series T Dynoptic, Custom Illumination

farnsy
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Re: sony cameras

#14 Post by farnsy » Wed May 19, 2021 5:39 pm

Seta wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 10:24 am
I have found out that the shutter shock on the A5100 (and other cameras) will make water samples move due to vibrations going to the slide through the immersion oil, no problem with air lenses. This is why I would recommend a camera with full electronic shutter for Oil objectives,
I'm confused. The Sony a5100 is completely mirrorless. It has no moving parts as far as I know and should not be capable of causing any kind of vibration. I admit I haven't used it at 100x though. Did you mean to write this or were you thinking of a different camera?

Seta
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Re: sony cameras

#15 Post by Seta » Wed May 19, 2021 6:01 pm

farnsy wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 5:39 pm
I'm confused. The Sony a5100 is completely mirrorless. It has no moving parts as far as I know and should not be capable of causing any kind of vibration. I admit I haven't used it at 100x though. Did you mean to write this or were you thinking of a different camera?
The A5100 is mirrorless but has a mechanical shutter that closes and opens, only the first shutter curtain is electronic (EFSC)
Newer mirrorless cameras feature a full electronic shutter.

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