My Zeiss Microscopes

What equipment do you use? Post pictures and descriptions of your microscope(s) here!
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MicroBob
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Re: My Zeiss Microscopes

#121 Post by MicroBob » Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:21 pm

BramHuntingNematodes wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:10 am
Hmmm I have a GFL that does epi darkfield with those wonderful hd objectives. I would think it strange if the 18s couldn't. Could it be true?
Different focus method: GFL has coarse focus moving the arm. This makes a lot of space available under the nose piece dovetail.

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Re: My Zeiss Microscopes

#122 Post by Adam Long » Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:06 pm

Jochen, I have a few questions. Are the 12.5x eyepieces illustrated on your Universal the 18 or 20 field? I cannot find the 20 field listed in Zeiss Optical Systems catalogue.

Image

I am also intrigued by your IM35. Are the condensers, heads etc interchangeable with the other finite Zeiss scopes? I am guessing your trinocular head is from a Standard - does the photoport have problems? What are the main advantages of the inverted design for you?

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Re: My Zeiss Microscopes

#123 Post by ImperatorRex » Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:41 pm

Hi Adam,
my pleasure to answer your questions:
  • yes, these KPL-W eye pieces have a FOV 20. They are rare to find, especially without delamination. There is therefore another option to achive a large FOV with the "wide field objective nose piece". Such objective turrets have a mag. factor of 0.63. Example Eyepiece FOV 18 => (18 / 0.63) x 1.25 (Tubus Factor) = FOV 22.5
  • Most of the Zeiss Standard equipment fits also to the IM35 (Heads, Optovar, Obectives, Oculares, Kondensors). Exception is the nose piece.
  • The image obtained from the photo port would not fitt well for my Canon DSLR with a APS-C sensor. (sensor is to small). Another user of the IM35 however has installed a full size DSLR (36 x 24 mm sensor) what works well.
Advantages of the inverted design:
- instead of the 1 mm thick object carrier slides I use larger cover glasses to carry the samples. I therefore can use the "standard" objectives for cover glass thickness 0,17 mm, even including the immerison objectives up to an n.A. of 1.4
I usually observe water samples...and the objekcts like algae or ciliates usually tend to sink down to the buttom, thanks to the gravity :-) So they stay very close to the cover glass, so not problem with too much water and poor image quality du to sphaeric aberration.
If you have worked with immersion objectives and water samples you may also sometimes get the effect of "pumping or movements of the coverglas" (if the water layer is too thick). This problem will not happen at all since I use a large coverglas as the object carrier.
So lots of advantages. Also to mention that I like the IM35 also from ergonomic perspective, various point I could mention.

So from my perspective the IM35 is the perfect scope for someone who observes pond/water samples.
I would not recomment to a beginner, since the working technique needs some adoptions and experience (I also have not started with and inverse microscope).
But once you got experience it is really great, you can do same as with conventional microscope, but then in addition you can put dishes etc .
Maybe last to mention: The IM35 is a full research microscope where you can fit equipment like epi fluorescense or DIC.

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Re: My Zeiss Microscopes

#124 Post by Adam Long » Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:15 am

Thanks Jochen, that is very interesting and helpful.

I have found some 12.5x eyepieces on ebay which look similar to yours but most are not marked with field size, and the one that is marked is marked 18. So may be a gamble, but you prefer the 18 right? I am used to 82 degree afov eyepieces from my telescope and since buying a stereo microscope the view with the standard Zeiss 10x/18 does seem rather narrow, and I find the 1.25x tube factor on the Universal a little annoying. Also presumably the 0.8x factor of the 0.63x head plus 1.25x Optovar gives a brighter image? On my Standard I use the 0x position on the Optovar much more than the 2x, not so much due to resolution limitations as the overall dimming.

I'm mostly looking at pondlife so for the IM35 the comments about the interesting things sinking to the bottom and the pumping of the coverglass are definitely issues I have encountered. Diatoms are never on the back of the coverglass! The 6 objective turret is attractive and the Photoport position also looks ideal - presumably it has projection optics inside? And despite such an extended light path there is no additional tube factor like the Universal/Phomi? With bigger slides I guess you need a good low power objective for scanning?

So do you use a second coverglass to stop the water moving around? Are there any issues with the condensers being corrected for a 1mm slide, or needing to be oiled for higher mags?

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Re: My Zeiss Microscopes

#125 Post by ImperatorRex » Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:47 pm

Hi Adam,
The KPL 10x or 12.5x Oculars without marking of the FOV do have a FOV "18".
I agree with you, I also found the the tube head factor of 1,25x of the Phomi or Universal really annoying! I always wondered why Zeiss did it... it reduces the FOV significantly, so the KPL Oculars with FOV 18 are shrinked to 14,5. But I was lucky enough that I bought my Universal including the wide field nose piece turret. Highly recommended...the only way to go in my opinion, otherwise I would prefer the Zeiss Standard.
I would not consider 12.5x eyepieces to use on the Universal since it has already the magnification by the tube head factor of 1,25x.
But for the wide field system it makes sense ... Zeiss recommends the KPL 12,5 to compensate for the reduction 0,8x of the system.
"Also presumably the 0.8x factor of the 0.63x head plus 1.25x Optovar gives a brighter image?" - Probabely this is true, but never tried to compare the standard nose piece against the wide field nosepiece.

"...and the Photoport position also looks ideal". Disadvantage to use the built in photoport ... you need a expensive full frame Camera with sensor size 24x36mm. Finally the captured portion of the captured image is relatively small, but this is what Zeiss has originally considered and designed for their analoge "Kleinbildkamera".

Look at the frame 24x36mm... this is what you capture with the photoport.

Image

"there is no additional tube factor like the Universal/Phomi?" Correct, there is no tube factor installed.

"With bigger slides I guess you need a good low power objective for scanning?"
I am fine with the Plan 6.3 Obejctive since I still can illuminate this objective with a 0,63n.A. condensor front lense, what I use quite often. With the plan 2,5x objective I would need to remove the frontlense, so there is just the condensor built in 0,32n.A lense.

"So do you use a second coverglass to stop the water moving around? Are there any issues with the condensers being corrected for a 1mm slide, or needing to be oiled for higher mags?"
Yes I use a second coverglass to make a flat surface in direction to the condernsor. For the illumination path condensor to the specifimen it does not really matter if it is 1mm (slide glas) or 0.17mm (cover glas).

It is very comfortable to immerse the condenser on the IM35, much easier than a conventianal microscope, much better access and you can turn back the device that carries the condensor. Use water for immerse the condensor front lense 1.4 n.A. Much easier to clean compared to Oil and it will illuminate the n.A. of the Objective up to 1.3 n.A or so.

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Re: My Zeiss Microscopes

#126 Post by woyjwjl » Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:25 am

ImperatorRex wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:41 pm

Advantages of the inverted design:
- instead of the 1 mm thick object carrier slides I use larger cover glasses to carry the samples. I therefore can use the "standard" objectives for cover glass thickness 0,17 mm, even including the immerison objectives up to an n.A. of 1.4
As I understand it

When the light leaves the coverslip (or slide) and enters the air, it causes "spherical aberration" due to the change in refractive index
Refraction of light as it leaves the glass coverslip.jpg
Refraction of light as it leaves the glass coverslip.jpg (21.22 KiB) Viewed 6210 times
The "standard objective" is designed to compensate for the spherical aberration of a 0.17mm coverslip

Therefore, the objective lenses used in inverted microscopes usually have a "correction ring"

Did I miss something?
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Re: My Zeiss Microscopes

#127 Post by ImperatorRex » Sat Aug 27, 2022 6:26 am

The "standard objective" is designed to compensate for the spherical aberration of a 0.17mm coverslip
Therefore, the objective lenses used in inverted microscopes usually have a "correction ring"
Often the inverted objectives are also called "long (working) distance ("LD") objectives & the objectives are calculated for larger cover glass ticknesses like 1+ mm or so. They can be used for obeservations through Petri dishes or slides.
If actual cover glass thickness deviates from what has been specified for the objective, numerical abberation will occure. Sensitiy and impact of the CA increases, the higher the numerical aperture of the objective is.
This is the reason why you will usually get the low N.A. long distance objective like 32x/0.40 (n.A) - 1(mm) without a correction ring.
But on a long distance objective, like 40x/0.60n.A you will find a correcting collar that allows to adjust more accurately for slide thickness, for example within a range between 1.1 mm up to 1.5mm.
Hope you find this information helpfull.

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Re: My Zeiss Microscopes

#128 Post by woyjwjl » Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:54 am

Your information doesn't conflict with my perception, so it doesn't help me.

I'm just confused about your speech about the advantages of inverted microscopes. (already quoted)
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Re: My Zeiss Microscopes

#129 Post by BramHuntingNematodes » Mon Aug 29, 2022 2:35 am

The trick rex is doing is using coverslips as the slide
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Wes
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Re: My Zeiss Microscopes (Comparison photo adaption Zeiss Standard versus Olympus BX)

#130 Post by Wes » Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:51 am

ImperatorRex wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:47 pm
Hi,
did a comparison of my photo adaptions I use currently:

green rectangle: Olympus BX with Canon EOS600D (the intermediate image is directly projected to the camera sensor)
red rectangle: Zeiss Standard with large field optovar 0,8x - KPL SKPL 10x/20 (Ocular) - YN EF35mm (Camera objective) - Canon EOS650D
blue rectangle: Zeiss Standard - KPL SKPL 10x/20 (Ocular) - YN EF35mm (Camera objective) - Canon EOS650D

Image

The BX photo adaption does even capture a bit more width of the FOV than is visible in the eyepieces (FOV22).

Below the single images taken with the 10x objectives:

Olympus BX UPlanFL 10x/0,30 PH1
Image

Zeiss Standard PlanApo 10/0,32 (with Optovar 0,80)
Image

Zeiss Standard PlanApo 10/0,32 (with Optovar 1,0)
Image

Some other photos

Pleurosigma angulatum (in air):

Olympus BX UPlanFL 10x/0,30 PH1:
Image

Zeiss Standard PlanApo 10/0,32 (with Optovar 0,80)
Image

Olympus BX UPlanFL 40x/0,75 PH2
Image

Zeiss Standard PlanApo 40/0,95 (with Optovar 0,80)
Image

Zeiss Standard PlanApo 40/0,95 (with Optovar 1,0)
Image

Olympus BX UPlanFL 10x/0,30 PH1:
(Scyllium young Shark)
Image

Zeiss Standard PlanApo 10/0,32 (with Optovar 0,80)
Image

Zeiss Standard PlanApo 10/0,32 (with Optovar 1,0)
Image
Hi Jochen,

May I ask you where you got the white grid on a dark background that you used for comparing objective performance?

Regards
Wes
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Re: My Zeiss Microscopes

#131 Post by ImperatorRex » Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:07 am

Hi Wes,
Wes wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:51 am
May I ask you where you got the white grid on a dark background that you used for comparing objective performance?
There was a box with Zeiss test slides included when I bought one of my used, old Zeiss Standard microscopes.
So was very lucky to get these as free add-on, included in the package.
20220918_113902.JPG
20220918_113902.JPG (64.25 KiB) Viewed 5927 times
20220918_114224.JPG
20220918_114224.JPG (37.48 KiB) Viewed 5927 times
The bright grid on the black background makes a very nice contrast. Also the silver test grid is covered with a cover glas and a paint ring.

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Re: My Zeiss Microscopes

#132 Post by Wes » Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:21 am

That is a great add-on for sure! Now I'm curious about what other test slides were included with the set :)
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Re: My Zeiss Microscopes

#133 Post by ImperatorRex » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:33 pm

Hi Wes,
maybe this test slide is quite interesting:
20220919_195311.JPG
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20220919_194901.JPG
20220919_194901.JPG (76.52 KiB) Viewed 5868 times
20220919_194949.JPG
20220919_194949.JPG (137.34 KiB) Viewed 5868 times
20220919_195021.JPG
20220919_195021.JPG (65.29 KiB) Viewed 5868 times
The plate is called "K5"

On the glas slide is a round, galvanized silver mirror with (engraved) parallel "zick-zack" lines.
Such lines are also used on the Abbe's Test Plate to check the correct objectives correction for cover glas thicknes and its chromatic and spheric abberation.
https://www.mikroskopie-forum.de/index. ... 2#msg84682

Abbe's testplate has a cover glas wedge with different thickness, the K5 test slide not. Not sure if the K5 has a cover glas at all, maybe its without cover glass to check abberation on EPI-Objectives?

Actually I have never made test with the K5 test plate, only used the Abbe's Testplate.

Below some tests that I did with the Abbe Test Plate:
Objective Planapo 40/0,95n.A. Coverglass thickness was increased / decreased in 0.01mm steps from the nominal of 0.17mm
Since it is a high n.A. dry Objective, the sphaeric abberation is already noticeable with deviations of 0.01mm.
Note that a thinner cover glas reduces the sharpness of the edges, what is not that worse compared to a thicker cover glas that causes bluring.
Image

In comparison a Plan achromatic Objective 40/0.65. The sphaeric abberation is not that much visible until the cover glass deviates more than 0.03 mm. You also notice the chromatic abberation of the achromatic objective.
Left side with strong oblidge illumniation, right side in comparison with centered illumination.
Abbe  with Plan 40_0,65_160.JPG
Abbe with Plan 40_0,65_160.JPG (88.66 KiB) Viewed 5868 times

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Re: My Zeiss Microscopes

#134 Post by imkap » Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:08 pm

Thanks for this informative illustration, looks like a nice piece to own... On the other hand if I had this test slide, I'd probably be on eBay 24/7... :D maybe better like this

What happens without a cover slip?

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Re: My Zeiss Microscopes

#135 Post by Wes » Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:13 am

Hi Jochen,
Thank you for the detailed demonstration of the K5 slide. Its always exciting to see how reality reflects theory which you nicely show here.
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Re: My Zeiss Microscopes - External flash bulb fitted into an old Zeiss Lamp housing 100

#136 Post by ImperatorRex » Sun Feb 19, 2023 2:38 pm

Would like to share an update, how to further increase the flash light efficiency by placing the flash bulb externally into an old Zeiss lanp housing.

Previous solution was shared and explained here: https://www.microbehunter.com/microscop ... 930#p53445

Image

Light densitiy of the flash can be further increased with a) proper collector lense installed and b) having a hollow mirror installed, that doubles the lamp filament.

Principal of such hollow mirrow is shown here:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaprojek ... densor.jpg

I was very happy when recognizing that an old Carl Zeiss Lamp housing 100 provides perfect space and provisions to install and external flash bulb. Below just some pictures, guess these explain maybe quite well:


Final flash solution mounted on an Olympus BX:
Image

View inside the Zeiss lamp 100...with the flash bulb installed:

Image

Lamp 100 has nice hollow mirrow to double the image of the bulb:

Image

Bulb installed at the same position as the halogen bulb:

Image

WARNING: High voltage...the ignition cable has 6800V, the anode/cathode still operates at 300V. Even if you have removed the battery from the flash, potential danger because the flash condensor stores energy over a certain perioud of time.

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Re: My Zeiss Microscopes

#137 Post by tlansing » Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:17 am

Jochen, I am continually impressed at how you repurpose old Zeiss gear for new purposes, like a flash unit from an old lamp house. Over the years, I have obtained bits and pieces of old Zeiss parts and have wondered either what they are or how they might be used. Not parting with any of it has been a good thing, since with inspiration from posts like yours I have been able in some cases to use it for a different purpose, like the flash unit you described earlier in this post. Please keep updating your very interesting and useful modifications!

Tim

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Re: My Zeiss Microscopes

#138 Post by ImperatorRex » Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:00 pm

Hi Tim, certainly your kind feeback motivates to share more :-)

I just started to fit a flush bulb into another Zeiss lamp housing: I have an old Zeiss HBO 50 mercury lamp housing that I have not used for years. It should make a nice enhancement for my vertical Zeiss setup (https://www.microbehunter.com/microscop ... =24&t=5930).


Below are some photos:

Flash Bulb mounted on the foot plate of the lamp housing:

Image

Same as viewed from below:

Image

(on the right side another spare flash bulb...they are rather cheap available when bought out of China...maybe 3 or 4 USD each)

Footplate with bulb, in the back the inner lamp housing compartment.
Image

Now fitted into the inner compartment:
Image

Also need to fit the collector lense. Nice that the focus can be adjusted...as required.
Image

Now the inner compartment is fitted into the outer housing. Note that the "roof" has been removed:

Image

...and the YN flash can rest very conveniently party in the housing. This also ensures that there is a direct light pay between the sensor inside the original flash device and the external flash bulb. This should ensure that the automatic ETTL measument is working properly. But I have not tested...modifications on the original Yongnuo (a Canon Clone) still to be done ...at the weekend.

Image

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Re: My Zeiss Microscopes

#139 Post by PeteM » Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:42 pm

Jochen - thank you for posting your very clever flash adaptations.

One question - it looks like the wire in your original (flash tube put in older cylindrical Zeiss lamp housing) has the normal insulation and connectors - perhaps rated for 300 to 600 volts? Have you found any problems with leakage of high flash voltages to the metal ground of your microscope?

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Re: My Zeiss Microscopes

#140 Post by ImperatorRex » Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:03 pm

Hi Pete,
(so far) no issues discovered with the cables and connectors, works all well. At the cylindrical Zeiss Lamp house the red cable is the flush ignition calbe, what get the high voltage. Here I have used a measuring cable. Inside the housings I have used highly flexible Silicon isolated cables (seems the same is also used by the manufacturer of the YN flush, but of coarse the original flush housing is all plastic...not a metal housing).
For the connectors I used the WAGO cable connectors. These are used for regular voltages, so certainly not certified for high voltage. But according to the insulator material specification the voltage resistance should be 30 kV/mm.

OF COARSE I CANNOT GUARANTE...SO IT IS AT YOUR OWN RISK.

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Re: My Zeiss Microscopes

#141 Post by PeteM » Wed Feb 22, 2023 9:28 pm

Thanks, Jochen.

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Re: My Zeiss Microscopes

#142 Post by ImperatorRex » Sun Feb 26, 2023 12:06 pm

Yesterday I have made photos on the modifications connecting the electronic flash to the external flash bulb, that I had mounted into an old Zeiss West Lamp Housing.

EDIT: NOTE THAT I HAVE CUT THE CABLES AFTER SEVERAL A WEEK, WHERE THERE WAS NO BATTERIE IN THE ELECTRONIC FLASH. SO I WAS SURE THE FLASH CONDENSOR WAS EMPTY AND NOT LOADED ... OTHERWISE YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE CONDENSOR IS EMPTY; E.G. CREATE A SHOT CUT BETWEEN THE CONNECTIONs TO EMPTY THE CONDENSOR.

The flash is a very powerfull "Canon Speedlite clone", made in China:

Image

The plan is to connect the wires of the electronic flash to the Zeiss lamp housing, where the external flash already has been installed (see previous description):

Image

First step is to remove the glued plastic covers on both sides of the flush with a screwdriver. Remove also the two metal clamps with a screwdriver:
Image

Unscrew the two screws and then remove the plastic cover:
Image
Image

Before you cut the cables, mark the cables with a pen. Also it is good to make the same markings on the connectors:

Image

In the next photo I have already cut the cables and extended the cables with flexible silicon cables. The solder connections were insulated with shrink insulating tubes. Also I used hot plastic glue to fix the cables in position inside the flash housing. The original flash bulb remains installed in the original flush housing (the bulb in the Zeiss lamp housing is a spare bulb, available for very small money from China).

Image

I drilled three holes for each flash calble. Each hole contains two cables...one cable will connect to the external flash bulb, and the second cable is actually the connection to the original installed flush bulb. This will provide the option to switch between external and internal bulb, just in case I ever consider to use the internal flush bulb in some future (but I do not believe will ever do :-) :

Image

Now I have used hot plastic glue to fix the cable WAGO cable connectors to the flash housing...also the cables have been connected according to the plan. The ignition cable to the internal flush just remains as a loose cable...(just to ensure it gets not connected accidentially)

Image

Now the cable to the external flash is connected...and the flash rests on top of the lamp housing:

Image

Finally it is installed on my vertical old Zeiss Microskope...and I am very happy that it works very well:

Image

Hope the photos can help in case you consider a similiar project. Let me know in case you have questions, I am glad if I can help.

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Re: My Zeiss Microscopes

#143 Post by 75RR » Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:37 am

Great project! Thanks for the detailed description
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Re: My Zeiss Microscopes

#144 Post by ImperatorRex » Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:31 pm

Thank you 75RR.
Actually you may have inspired me to put the flash bulb inside an old Zeiss lamp housing. In an earlier thread you considered the lamp housing 60, but you dropped the ideas since it has not really convenient space or provision to install.
So finally I think the Lamp Housing 100 is a perfect choice, also considering that it provides some real benefit...it doubles the light power due to the hollow mirrow inside these old lamp housings.

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