3D Mechanical Stage

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dgibsman
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3D Mechanical Stage

#1 Post by dgibsman » Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:59 pm

I’ve noticed that in some of the descriptions of microscopes, the advertiser lists a “3D mechanical microscope stage”as one of the features of their product. How is a “3D mechanical microscope stage” different from a non-3D mechanical microscope stage? What does the “3D” designation indicate in regard to the mechanical stage? Any information about the 3D designation would be appreciated.

don1357
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Re: 3D Mechanical Stage

#2 Post by don1357 » Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:24 pm

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it is marketing fluff, as in you can move stuff around left, right, and in an angle. I say this because even the cheapest of microscopes offer a 3D stage so it can't be that impressive feat of technology. I'm also saying it because if I'm wrong it will expedite somebody else to answer and set the record straight.

Working your way from the bottom up (a microscope with a mechanical stage) the next step is the objective quality. I think very few entry level microscopes have flat field optics, which can be boiled down to images that are sharp both on the center and at the corners. If you plan on making digital images (like me, fellow newbie here) you want to pay attention to the optics quality.

There is also a school of thought that would suggest you get an inexpensive used microscope that at the very least has a mechanical stage. Used low'ish end equipment is cheap, you get to see what's what, get to buy all the extra stuff you'll need (slides, consumables, yada-yada-yada), and then become more knowledgeable and can pick with a higher degree of certainty what you really want. At the point the used microscope you got for cheap can be resold for cheap or donated to a aspiring young scientist.

dtsh
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Re: 3D Mechanical Stage

#3 Post by dtsh » Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:03 pm

don1357 wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:24 pm
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it is marketing fluff, as in you can move stuff around left, right, and in an angle.
I don't know what a 3D stage is either, but I agree with don1357 that it's almost assuredly marketing fluff.
To add to that, some microscopes have "2D" stages, i.e. they move left and right, forward and back, but don't travel up or down (Z axis) as the objectives on these types move instead of the stage. I think one would be hard-pressed to suggest that these are inferior designs when compared to the "3D" stage. All of this presumes my understanding of what's meant by a "3D" stage.

To add to what @don1357 said in regard to objectives, "plan" objectives give a flatter field of view and tend to be preferred, but it really all depends on what you want to do with the microscope as sometimes a non plan objective can work just as well depending on the use case and frequently will save some money.

I am a fan of buying older used instruments, partly because I am frugal and partly beause I enjoy taking apart and cleaning/repairing things. If one is handy and has an eye for detail, it can save a few dollars here and there. Often times you can buy a used instument which has been gone over and reconditioned, either professionally or by an amateur, and get an instrument with assurances that it will do what is claimed - we have a few users here who do this sort of thing to varying degrees of perfection and cost. I don't think there is anything wrong or inferior about a new instrument, but in all cases, new or used, it pays to be familiar with what you're looking at to ensure you get the best instrument for your purposes at an acceptable price.

I highly recommend anyone considering buying a scope, new or used, to read some of the older threads and maybe start a thread discussing what they're hoping to use it for and asking for advice and recommendations. There are a LOT of options out there to fit almost any budget, some better than others, for which the community is often quite helpful in providing good guidance.

microb
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Re: 3D Mechanical Stage

#4 Post by microb » Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:16 pm

Is this what you mean?
Attachments
Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG (77.65 KiB) Viewed 2745 times

MichaelG.
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Re: 3D Mechanical Stage

#5 Post by MichaelG. » Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:53 pm

My simplistic view would be that the description is entirely reasonable :ugeek:

The three dimensions [axes] are X, Y, Z.

X and Y are on the stage, and Z is the focusing movement of the stage

… It’s just another way of emphasising that the stage, and not the limb, moves for focusing.

MichaelG.
Too many 'projects'

Hobbyst46
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Re: 3D Mechanical Stage

#6 Post by Hobbyst46 » Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:58 pm

MichaelG. wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:53 pm
My simplistic view would be that the description is entirely reasonable :ugeek:

The three dimensions [axes] are X, Y, Z.

X and Y are on the stage, and Z is the focusing movement of the stage

… It’s just another way of emphasising that the stage, and not the limb, moves for focusing.

MichaelG.
very elegant justification, Michael. I Love it!! :)
Although the keen-eyed potential buyer would have never guessed that the limb is fixed... especially in view of the photo of the microscope...

In fact, Apochronaut has commented on such ridiculous specifications a while ago, say "bright, clear images through the optics" or similar.

jfiresto
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Re: 3D Mechanical Stage

#7 Post by jfiresto » Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:23 pm

Hobbyst46 wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:58 pm
... Apochronaut has commented on such ridiculous specifications a while ago, say "bright, clear images through the optics" or similar.
A few months back, I closely criticized the fluffy specifications for an Amscope microscope. The following week, the specs had shrunk by almost half and become nearly solid "meat". 8-)
-John

Greg Howald
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Re: 3D Mechanical Stage

#8 Post by Greg Howald » Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:25 pm

There are still microscopes made with 2d stages. The major difference between a 2d stage and a 3d stage is really this.
With the old 2d system, z movement, that is up and down movement to reach the focal point was accomplished by moving the objective-focal tube assembly up and down.
With a 3d stage it is the stage that moves in the z direction to obtain focus.
These days almost every microscope manufactured has 3d stage movement and yes, to even mention it in advertisement is pure fluff.
😃 Greg

Greg Howald
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Re: 3D Mechanical Stage

#9 Post by Greg Howald » Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:34 pm

Oops. I should probably mention that most manufacturers these days tend to confuse a three d stage with a three Layer stage. A three Layer stage is made with three layers of metal rather than two and is considered to be more stable with less possibility for vibration issues. Also mostly fluff.
Greg

dgibsman
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Re: 3D Mechanical Stage

#10 Post by dgibsman » Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:07 pm

Thank you all for your responses to my question regarding the 3D mechanical stage. Microb, the attachment shows exactly the kind of ad to which I am referring. The information that all of you provided is very helpful to me in my search for my first microscope. Thanks again.

don1357
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Re: 3D Mechanical Stage

#11 Post by don1357 » Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:38 pm

To expand on my "If you plan on making digital images": The brain has a funny way to subjectively focus on what we are looking at. This is why when you take a picture of what you think is the perfect moment you then look at it and then realize all the stuff that was around. Your brain was literally recording the moment while the camera was recording the scene; once on an image the brain was no longer 'distracted' with the subject matter and you are then taking in the full flat scene.

Microscopes: If you are just looking and creating a library of samples, flat field is not as big a deal (lack of lens quality is but let's leave that alone for a second). if you are recording it, specially for publication (and posting it on a forum is a form of publication) it becomes a big deal in what you can produce. There are post processing techniques where you can take a number of images at different levels of focus and merge them into an in-focus image beyond what your microscope could even muster. It helps a lot if those images are on the same plane of focus.

I'm waiting for my budget microscope which somebody sent me for the cost of shipping. As far a digital imaging goes it will probably not give me the results I want but it will let me work full speed into building a library of mushroom spores. Once I upgrade to a better microscope I can go through my library to capture in digital form my collection of slides.

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