Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

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InfiniteCosmos
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Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#1 Post by InfiniteCosmos » Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:30 am

Hello dear Friends,

Some of you know i bought a Laborlux K about one year ago. Was a good microscope but without a trinocular set i could not make videos or photos and that for me was a joy killer.
Someone here in the forum said that any new microscope will out perform an older microscope in terms of image quality.
So i sold it for twice the price to make money for a more recent microscope like a new Motic BA310 or a Panthera. Ive tried to contact Motic but nobody respond to my emails. I also though about buying a Swift Stellar Pro-T but i know that microscope have some limitations with the condencer and "upgradeability" so i got stuck on what to i go for.

Now i have the oportunity to buy a trinocular Leitz Orthoplan with 30mm periplan 8x optics, 2 phase objectives(40x and 100x) and fluorescence tech(condenser 402aa and Orthoplan Fluor LH-250 Lamphouse) for half a price of a new BA310.

I know i will have to buy the other plan objectives dont know how and for what price.
I entend to use the simple two sheet polarization method and to do stuff like DIC look a like methods. I also very interested to record amoebas.

That being said.
Will i be able to record a mitosis for exemple, or will i need a special set of objectives for that?
What do you guys think about the quality diference between Orthoplan and BA310?

Sorry about any gramatical errors and any confusion i have about this subject.
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apochronaut
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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#2 Post by apochronaut » Thu Jan 26, 2023 11:35 am

InfiniteCosmos wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:30 am
Hello dear Friends,

Someone here in the forum said that any new microscope will out perform an older microscope in terms of image quality.
In theory, yes but that is entirely dependent on the specific comparison involved. When comparing apples to apples, a new microscope can theoretically provide a clean slate with everything working properly but new , cheap microscopes are manufactured quickly with quality control shortcuts, one of which is cleanliness and the other , mechanical precision. I have personally had to clean a disgusting amount of debris from the optical head in an instrument assembled in the Motic factory. A roughly 6 or 700.00 $U.S. instrument. I have seen not much worse after handling many used instruments. Cheaper microscopes also have sloppy mechanical tolerances. The objectives are more often than not poorly parcentered, with little in the way of mechanisms with which to rectify that problem.
There is a limit to the optical quality and durability of cheaper Chinese and Indian microscopes. You can buy better corrected optics now but the cost becomes very high for the amateur with individual objectives going over $1000.00 and an entire instrument equipped with planfluor or planapo objectives soaring close to 5 figures.
For less than $2,000 one can find used instruments with highly corrected objectives and other valuable features. Older precision instruments were built to very high mechanical tolerances and finished for sale by hand centering the nosepieces. Objectives and optical systems were assembled in clean rooms. Numerous accessories were often part of the system, with many often still available on the after market.
It is true that modern optics, even Chinese and Indian are being designed to formulas that were unheard of in 1950 but the top 10 manufacturers between then and about 2000 all produced optical systems that modest oriental optcs of today are inferior to and some of those top ten optics are still close to state of the art. An infinity corrected plan objective, either achromat or apochromat from 1980 or even earlier for that matter will be not too far off a contemporary similar objective fresh from one of the big four's clean rooms.
Your Leitz Orthoplan option is a bit unique in that it is a very high quality microscope with many potential accessories but optics and accessories must be Leitz, with few exceptions. Even Leica components, which is a different company , are mostly incompatible. For much less than the cost of a lesser microscope the Orthoplan could be outfitted into a really nice scope. Already is. You would not easily be able to duplicate it's potential with a new microscope, certainly not the Motics you mention, especially at $2,000. Panthera, what a name. . Sounds more like a brand of perfume aimed at newly divorced 50 year olds.

It does depend on the price of the Orthoplan too. Leitz objectives tend to be underpriced , so outfitting it won't be that painfull and the 30mm head gives you plenty of f.o.v. Transmitted fluorescence is not all that popular these days , so it won't be a hot item.

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imkap
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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#3 Post by imkap » Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:31 pm

Buying used always gives you an option to learn something and resell if you want, not losing any money. Especially if you found this locally, in my experience one can get great prices when buying stuff in person. :)
New stuff is great if you are sure you want a specific product that you know you won't outgrow in years. (or a lifetime)

Or you might like the Orthoplan and never outgrow it and find great accessories for it. Trinocular port by itself gives better imaging as it is more convenient and you can keep your setup fixed when you find all the right optics. (or maybe they are already in the microscope)

I had one Fluotar objective from Leitz from that age and it was great. I didn't really need it. It sold very quickly on ebay for maybe 100€ inc. shipping.

Leitzcycler
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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#4 Post by Leitzcycler » Thu Jan 26, 2023 1:03 pm

After about 5 years of experience with Orthoplan: It is a very high quality scope with plenty of objectives and parts available in Ebay. However, DIC parts are extremely rare and hard to find (I don't have myself). It is a rather large stand and not easily portable so it needs lot of space. I do mostly microbiology so I don't need the wide field. Mine was in good condition. However, was damaged during postage: there is a risk the mirror and prisms get loose as the glue deteriorate during ageing. So it must be packed extremely carefully if posted. If the focus system is smooth and works well, no problem. If not, it is extremely hard to service.

InfiniteCosmos
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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#5 Post by InfiniteCosmos » Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:03 pm

Hi apochronaut, amazing how you are always helpfull.

The Orthoplan costs 750€ with only the 2 phase objectives. I find the price to be a little high for the lack of the other objectives.
Maybe i made a mistake on selling that Laborlux K i had for the same price this seller asks me for the Orthoplan without the other objectives.

On Ebay i found a 40x Leitz plan objective for arround 80€. And i found a 40x Leitz Fluotar plan for 275€. I didnt found 60x objectives for this microscope anyware.

Sorry but i have to ask this, when people talk about the Orthoplan being the Rolls Royce of that time, they are talking about the quality of the body and the stage and the quality of prism inside of it? Or the Orthoplan is olny a RollsRoyce once it have the fluotar objectives?
The seller says that the microscope costs him the price of a new car at that time.
My doubt here is... my old Laborlux K with that Fluotar objectives would produce the same results? Because if that is an option, with the 750€ the seller asks for it, i can buy a Laborlux again and give the rest of the money to buy the fluotar objectives.

I dont know what to do now. If i stick with the orthoplan or if i wait a little longer to find some other oportunity.
I have to make a little thinking here.
Here in portugal is dificult to get a good second hand microscope because the market is too too small.

InfiniteCosmos
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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#6 Post by InfiniteCosmos » Thu Jan 26, 2023 3:03 pm

Hi imkap and Leitzcycler,
thank you very much for helping me here.

I didnt knew that Orthoplan was that hard to servicing. The seller is 30min from where i live so i will be able to make some experiments with it before i purchase.
I also considering make the purchase on a servicing store so someone more exeperienced could avaluate it for me.

So, we can say that is a great microscope in therms of quality, parts availability on the market including objectives at a good price and upgradability.
Everything sounds good to me!

PS: the seller is telling me that the 40x and 100x PHACO objectives work like any other regular objectives and produce a normal image if the condenser is set without the phase ring filter. He says these objectives are more expensive because they have a 0.02mm ring draw inside the objective.
Is that true??
Because in my old Laborlux i had a 40x Phaco and without any filter the image always had that weird chromatic effect around the subjects i observe.
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Hobbyst46
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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#7 Post by Hobbyst46 » Thu Jan 26, 2023 3:41 pm

An Orthoplan can yield great results in the hands of a dedicated, patient and careful microscopists. Many fantastic images have been posted by on this forum by forum member mrsonchus, with an Orthoplan. They were mostly brightfield images. It is a very heavy microscope.

Likewise, many fantastic images have been posted by on this forum by forum members with a Laborlux K. It is a much more mobile microscope.

For photomicrography, in my humble opinion, a trinocular head is very important and should be first on the list of priority of accessories.

The Orthoplan shown in this post seems to be equipped with only a mercury lamp for fluorescence. Note that such a lamp, besides its relatively short life, high price and potential safety issues, is not suitable for any kind of illumination except fluorescence excitation.
Zeiss Standard GFL+Canon EOS-M10, Olympus VMZ stereo

apochronaut
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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#8 Post by apochronaut » Thu Jan 26, 2023 5:31 pm

Hobbyst46 wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 3:41 pm
An Orthoplan can yield great results in the hands of a dedicated, patient and careful microscopists. Many fantastic images have been posted by on this forum by forum member mrsonchus, with an Orthoplan. They were mostly brightfield images. It is a very heavy microscope.

Likewise, many fantastic images have been posted by on this forum by forum members with a Laborlux K. It is a much more mobile microscope.

For photomicrography, in my humble opinion, a trinocular head is very important and should be first on the list of priority of accessories.

The Orthoplan shown in this post seems to be equipped with only a mercury lamp for fluorescence. Note that such a lamp, besides its relatively short life, high price and potential safety issues, is not suitable for any kind of illumination except fluorescence excitation.
Bob has made a point. You indicated an interest in using fluorescence , which this Orthoplan is equipped to do. You don't have a second option for ilumination, so you would need another socket or possibly lamphouse for the 100 watt halogen. However, that then does start to equip you for high resolution DF, which is always a useful option for viewing pond life. You would then need a DF condenser and a 100X objective with iris, also useful for BF.

Regarding phase objectives used for BF. Personally, I do not use them. I find the deleterious effect of the phase annulus in the objective too much, so I have a BF set as well, which also doubles for DF.
Fluotars or planapos for the Leitz systems are not that expensive. Ebay in the U.S. seems to spit out a lot and the shipping to Portugal would not be that high.
The Panthera us priced around $2000.00 for a basic 5 objective planachro microscope, so in comparison to that consideration you had, the Orthoplan purchase gves you some money to play with.

InfiniteCosmos
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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#9 Post by InfiniteCosmos » Thu Jan 26, 2023 7:04 pm

Thanks everyone once again.

I got a little scared about the mercury bulb, i didnt knew that was mercury envolved.

i believe i posted two diferent light sources... The first image is the fluorescence light housing with the power supply, and the second photo is the Orthoplan with a 60w Halogen socket pluged in and a almost hidden volt transformer(says the seller). Am i wrong or missing something that i might not be aware?

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imkap
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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#10 Post by imkap » Thu Jan 26, 2023 7:32 pm

In my experience too, PH objectives on brightfield aren't good, the resolution diminishes quite a lot.

From my perspective the price seems a bit high considering there are only 2 objectives on the microscope, not sure if you need relay lens in the trino port, if yes then see if it is included.
But it is a Leitz and everything made by Leitz or Leica tends to hold the price up... If your seller was using this microscope with care it might be in a great condition.

This one went for 460GBP some time ago and it looks much worse than yours and has one objective and no fluorescence light. So maybe my perspective is a bit distorted. :mrgreen:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185647152880

Shipping from U.S. for small things like objectives isn't too expensive but still you need to pay the VAT on top of everything. You can find some in EU too, only less often.
Last edited by imkap on Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

Leitzcycler
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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#11 Post by Leitzcycler » Thu Jan 26, 2023 7:47 pm

There are both lamp houses in your pictures. If you use fluorescence, you need a ploemopak with filter cubes. I highly recommend led conversion.
The focus block in Orthoplan is very complicated and is a problem IF it needs servicing. If focus turns smoothly, no problem.

These are good reading, you will also find the original manuals googling.

http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/art ... _Ver_4.pdf

http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/art ... oplan.html

InfiniteCosmos
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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#12 Post by InfiniteCosmos » Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:49 am

Hi friends,

I never liked phase contrast because i never made nothing great out of it, im very amateur, but i didnt know that was possible to use it in darkfield. I also never knew that was possible to use a normal objective with a darkfield condenser to make darkfield past 10x magnification, because the selles here used to ask me if i wanted a darkfield or a brightfield microscope.

Im leraning allot with you guys here :) And thanks for all the manuals!

So... good news i think. Today i will buy the Orthoplan. The seller will do it for 550€ with all the illumination stuff he gots there and he will give me the phototube for free. Its not a relay and i saw those things are expensive, since i was planning to buy other objectives or condensers with the 200€ discount he gave me. I dont know if this phototube is going to work with my Canon M50.
If not, i will have to manage a way to work.

What do you guys think?
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Hobbyst46
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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#13 Post by Hobbyst46 » Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:04 pm

InfiniteCosmos wrote:
Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:49 am
Hi friends,

I never liked phase contrast because i never made nothing great out of it, im very amateur, but i didnt know that was possible to use it in darkfield. I also never knew that was possible to use a normal objective with a darkfield condenser to make darkfield past 10x magnification, because the selles here used to ask me if i wanted a darkfield or a brightfield microscope.

Im leraning allot with you guys here :) And thanks for all the manuals!

So... good news i think. Today i will buy the Orthoplan. The seller will do it for 550€ with all the illumination stuff he gots there and he will give me the phototube for free. Its not a relay and i saw those things are expensive, since i was planning to buy other objectives or condensers with the 200€ discount he gave me. I dont know if this phototube is going to work with my Canon M50.
If not, i will have to manage a way to work.

What do you guys think?
Congratulations and good luck. There are at least two ways to attach the camera to the microscope, and the trinocular head is an excellent starting point.
Web articles by Charles Krebs clearly explain how to install a camera on a microscope.
There are previous posts (3-5 years ago) on this forum about the camera on Orthoplan.
The M50 is a good camera for microscopy.
Zeiss Standard GFL+Canon EOS-M10, Olympus VMZ stereo

InfiniteCosmos
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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#14 Post by InfiniteCosmos » Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:20 pm

So, in about 1 hour from now i will perform a test on the microscope.
Its important that the stage move very smoothly. But if the stage have some horizontal inclination, its easy to fix?

InfiniteCosmos
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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#15 Post by InfiniteCosmos » Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:08 pm

Hi there Friends,

I made it :) i got the Orthoplan for 550€ and as far as i can see, its very well preserved.
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The Stage works fine and super smoothly. And its amazing how many times i have to turn the fine focus to make the stage move only 1mm.

This boy is huge! Amscope B120 for scale.
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In Total, this set have 34kg (Body and ilumination: 21kg + Fluorescent ilumination: 13kg)

I didnt try the fluorescent ilumination because i got afraid to broke something by do something wrong. So this weekend i got alot of reading and learning to do.
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I notice the condenser is a little bit hard to change between the filters so i will have to lubricate something there. I also noticed that the condenser has some blue filters on it.
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Now i will buy a couple of objectives and the DarkField condenser too.
You guys were a great help

Alexander
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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#16 Post by Alexander » Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:59 pm

Congratulations on your new microscope.

The difference in size compared to the Amscope is just the difference between a microscope and a toy. :lol:

The 402aa condenser is a very special animal designed for transmitted light fluorescence work. It contains 5 annuli.

#1 is standard phaco 1
#2 ist UV phaco 2
#3 is blue phaco 2
#4 is UV phaco 3
#5 is blue phaco 3

UV and blue are the excitation light wavelength.
The UV annuli will work reasonably well with white light.
Be careful with oil on the condenser. You may easily spoil it.

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imkap
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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#17 Post by imkap » Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:46 pm

Congratulations, it looks in excellent condition.
If you put a stop into one of the condenser holes you'll have darkfield, or maybe one of the phase annulus might work as a stop, until you find a DF condenser.

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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#18 Post by MichaelG. » Sat Jan 28, 2023 7:20 am

InfiniteCosmos wrote:
Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:08 pm
Hi there Friends,

I made it :) i got the Orthoplan for 550€ and as far as i can see, its very well preserved.
.

Magnificent

MichaelG.
Too many 'projects'

MicroBob
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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#19 Post by MicroBob » Sat Jan 28, 2023 7:58 am

Congratulations, you've got a very nice microscope there!
The Orthoplan arrived on the market in the 1960s and this was still Leitz 170mm era. They were changed to 160mm later. So when looking for parts it will be important to know which components are compatible. I posted a link to the german forum a while back where this was explained in detail.

You can choose between these main objective lines:
EF fairly good semi plan achromats
PLAN good achromats, plan to the high standard of the Orthoplans big field of view
NPL Fluotar very good fluorites, plan over a field ov view of I think 24mm
PLAN APO the best corrected, plan over the full Orthoplan field

Don't use the mercury lamp without exactly knowing what you do! It has a wide band on wave lenghts extending far into the UV. The intended use is to install an appropriate set of filters that use certain wave lenghts for excitation (can be UV) and block transmisson of unwanted or harmful light to the eye of the observer. When using the wrong setup or filters that have deteriorated the UV light will damage your eyes permanently.
The Orthoplan can do epi fluorescence and in it's time transmitted fluorescence was already out of use so you might have the right components for epi fluorescence there. Today this can be used very well with LEDs as the light source.

Diana Witzgall services Orthoplan microscopes and probably also sells parts. https://www.microscopia.de/
You can also find manuals etc. for download on her website.

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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#20 Post by Alexander » Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:28 am

EF and NPL objectives are not well suited for the Orthoplan's wide field of view. It needs PL or Plan ones to feature a plan field.

Leitzcycler
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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#21 Post by Leitzcycler » Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:03 am

Well, you have a very nice high quality scope. Now collecting parts and accessories will start and probably will cost at least double the price of the scope anyway :)

Here are some suggestions how to construct led lighting for fluorescence

https://www.microbehunter.com/microscop ... =24&t=9420

You need ploemopak and filter cubes for fluorescence. It may be a rather expensive purchase so you may have to wait for a while until you find one for a reasonable price

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125187068845?h ... R5al7f--YQ

Keep in mind that ploemopak for Orthoplan and Ortholux2 look much the same, however are not compatible as the dovetail dimensions are different for these scopes.

InfiniteCosmos
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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#22 Post by InfiniteCosmos » Sat Jan 28, 2023 5:32 pm

Thank you guys! :D

Alexander, great info about the condenser filters.
I was planing to buy a cheap 4x EF(just for maping) this still can be done?
Good you metioned that the oil could harm the condenser, that made me think twice, i have a silicone based anti-friction spray, very light, wich i use to replace oil on mechanisms i work with. Zero viscosity.

Ive tried all the condenser stops and i didnt got the darkfield effect. I will keep an eye on the DF condensers.

Microbob, great info about the objectives. Didnt found the german forum link but i will keep on search.
The Fluorescence adventure got even more scary now XD
And great Site too! Must be a much safer purchase than from Ebay.

Most of the cheap Plan Apos i saw are for 170mm and my orthoplan work fine with the 160mm.

Leitzcycler, thats a cool project you have there. Change to Led is one of the things i wanna do in a couple of months.
The price on that ploemopak is normal?

i Have to say, this 40x Phaco objective without the phase filter, seems to work like a normal objective.
Im now trying to figure how to set my canon on the trino. That's gonna be a problem. I only have this to start with:
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Today i mouted my Canon on the eyepiece with the only adapter i have, to see if this method worked anyway. I found something that didnt happen on Laborlux K. The image is far zoomed in, croping almost half of what i can see through the 8x periplan eyepiece.
This is a superior wing of a Pararge aegeria butterfly.
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And also found while mounting the camera that the head is full of debris inside, visible with the camera, invisible with the 8x eyepiece. Can i blow some air inside with a aircan, or will i have to disassemble the entire head?
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Last edited by InfiniteCosmos on Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

viktor j nilsson
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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#23 Post by viktor j nilsson » Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:42 pm

As long as you use 170mm eyepieces on your 170mm microscope, both 160mm and 170mm objectives will work ok, as the location of the image only differs by 2mm, as seen here:
https://www.microbehunter.com/microscop ... 060#p77060

I really like the 170mm Pl Fl objectives I've tried, and the 4x and 10x are affordable and readily available.

Leitzcycler
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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#24 Post by Leitzcycler » Sat Jan 28, 2023 7:21 pm

The price on that ploemopak is normal?
It is overpriced. I think mine was around 250-300 EUR with three filter cubes.

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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#25 Post by Alexander » Sat Jan 28, 2023 7:45 pm

EF and NPL objectives work on the Orthoplan. They are just not perfectly plan. If you can live with it, you are fine.

About the Ploemopak:
You need this for reflected light fluorescence. Your Orthoplan is already configured for transient light fluorescence. Start with that and look for a properly priced Ploemopak. the most important cubes are for UV, blue and green excitation. Those are frequently found at a good prize.

Leitzcycler
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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#26 Post by Leitzcycler » Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:07 pm

Your Orthoplan is already configured for transient light fluorescence.
Sorry, I didn't realize there are some filters. Be careful with the mercury lamp as I think it may be even more dangerous if used with transient light.

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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#27 Post by MicroBob » Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:27 pm

viktor j nilsson wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:42 pm
As long as you use 170mm eyepieces on your 170mm microscope, both 160mm and 170mm objectives will work ok, as the location of the image only differs by 2mm, as seen here:
https://www.microbehunter.com/microscop ... 060#p77060

I really like the 170mm Pl Fl objectives I've tried, and the 4x and 10x are affordable and readily available.
That was the link and you mention the essence from it. I have two similar looking Leitz objektives, I think NPL Fluotar 10, one 160 ant the other 170mm. I can't detect the slightest difference.

The eyepieces are very different, 170mm with intermdiate image 18mm below tube end, 160mm wih 10mm below tube end. The newer 160mm eyepieces can be identified as they are engraved "magnification x field number" like "10x18" where the 170mm eyepieces are only engraved with the magnification.

Leitzcycler
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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#28 Post by Leitzcycler » Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:12 pm

In case you would like to play a game :mrgreen:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/155361922357?ha ... R_6vo6O_YQ

InfiniteCosmos
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Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#29 Post by InfiniteCosmos » Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:57 pm

Leitzcycler wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:12 pm
In case you would like to play a game :mrgreen:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/155361922357?ha ... R_6vo6O_YQ
I saw that too! I was here trying to find a manual that could tell me if that item fits on my microscope. I found nothing. So i just asked the seller.
Now with your post, i know the answer :)

My god, im accumulating doubts:
This ploemopak works fine with infinity objectives?
Because they seems to be way cheaper and abundant.

InfiniteCosmos
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:07 am

Re: Help with decision on Leitz Orthoplan

#30 Post by InfiniteCosmos » Sat Jan 28, 2023 10:18 pm

"" The eyepieces are very different, 170mm with intermdiate image 18mm below tube end, 160mm wih 10mm below tube end. The newer 160mm eyepieces can be identified as they are engraved "magnification x field number" like "10x18" where the 170mm eyepieces are only engraved with the magnification. ""

Oh, i though this symbol (100x / -) was a infinity like symbol. Im feeling so dumb ahaha.
Okay so i think im getting it. The 160mm and 170mm are both the same phisical size and i will not have to make any ajustment on the stage when changing between these two objectives. The only change is were the image they produce is being delivered, in the eyepiece-hole of the head.
Is that it? Am i finally learning the basics? :lol:

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