Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

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Amasa
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Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#1 Post by Amasa » Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:10 am

Hi, I've been reading on this forum about microscope suggestions for my 7 year old daughter. Initially, she will be using this to view objects she picks from the garden like leaves, insects, stones and hopefully in the future, organism from pond water. I guess I need to have wide 7x to view larger objects and 40x plus for pond water organisms.

I am convinced to get a used, brand new Stereo Microscope for around 300 Euro. We live in Germany and the options for new are AmScope SE305R (1x, 3x objective) 10 - 30X and BRESSER Analyth STR (1x, 2x, 4x objective) 10x - 40x. I am also considering to get used from ebay.de from top brands such as Zeiss, Leica, Olympus, Nikon if they could provide a lot more sharpness, quality of the optics. Zoom is also an option for easier operation. What brands, model do you suggest at this price range?

PeteM
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#2 Post by PeteM » Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:11 pm

The Amscope with 1x and 3x is a usable stereo scope for the price. It's one we recommend to "Micronaut" families for a new price under $150. I don't have experience with the Bresser. It could well be good as well - with the advantage of a third objective pair. If you end up with the Bresser, I'd appreciate hearing how it works for you. Does the added complication compromise field of view (fitting 3 rather than 2 pairs of objectives in the rotating turret) or quality feel and robustness? Or is it just one more useful magnification to have?

You might get a better quality scope, used. What models are commonly and affordably available in Germany? The typical advantages of a used pro scope are a more robust build, wider field optics, far better zooms in zoom models, and often longer working distances and less distortion and aberration at the edges of the field of view. The typical cons are that many have been abused or lost alignment. Some will even have detached prisms or first surface mirrors. So, it's important that you be able to check alignment, image quality, and parfocality in a used scope. Either that, or be able to easily return it.

Amasa
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#3 Post by Amasa » Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:12 am

These are the used I could get online:
299 euro - Wild M1a, 10x/21C eyepiece - 299 euro
599 euro - Wild M7s, 10x/21 eyepiece not focusable, phototube not included. This seems to be made a lot earlier than the M3b below, it looks more vintage. The head holder doesn't have the Wild brand logo on it.
599 euro - Wild M3b, 20x/13 eyepiece, 0.63X objective


I like the modularity of the Wild scopes being able to upgrade in the future by adding more objectives, etc. Photo is not a requirement for me so I'm thinking if M1a makes more sense or spend more and get either the M7s or M3b. There's M8 but it's already at 900 euro.

jfiresto
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#4 Post by jfiresto » Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:36 am

Amasa wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:12 am
...599 euro - Wild M7s, 10x/21 eyepiece not focusable, phototube not included...
If that is this one in Freilassing with free shipping, it is actually a Wild M7A on a non-Wild stand with a non-Wild focus mechanism. The M7A variant is also a very nice microscope, but personally, I would wait for something more for the money.

What is going on at the lower right of the imaged coin?
Last edited by jfiresto on Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
-John

Amasa
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#5 Post by Amasa » Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:47 am

Thank you for the info jfiresto. I'm new and had no experience with scopes. I only notice the issue on the lower right on the image when you pointed it out.

At 599 there's also this old looking but condition seems to be good Olympus SZ.

Scarodactyl
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#6 Post by Scarodactyl » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:08 am

The m1a was a bottom-barrel student scope in their lineup, even with the Wild name there is no point in buying one. Excellent construction no doubt but fixed mag.

The m7a is a great scope as long as you don't need higher magnification. It can take quite nice photos too. Note the eyepieces don't focus, but instead both eye tubes are focusable so it isn't a concern.

The m3b is middle of the line, good optics but only has three distinct magnification settings. I'd look for an m3c or m3z for that money, or a Leica ms5, mz6 or m50.

Of those I'd probably go for the 7a--it's overpriced, but a good m7 is a gem of a scope.

jfiresto
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#7 Post by jfiresto » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:20 am

Amasa wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:47 am
... At 599 there's also this old looking but condition seems to be good Olympus SZ.
Do you have a link an Olympus specialist (not me) can look at?

Just for laughs, I tried taking a picture of the coin through a very similar Wild eyepiece with a bottom-of-the-line, Android 4 smart phone. Here is a 100% crop [click image to enlarge]:

Image

A modern camera on a photo tube will do much better than this camera phone and human camera holder.
-John

Amasa
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#8 Post by Amasa » Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:19 am

Scarodactyl wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:08 am
The m1a was a bottom-barrel student scope in their lineup, even with the Wild name there is no point in buying one. Excellent construction no doubt but fixed mag.

The m7a is a great scope as long as you don't need higher magnification. It can take quite nice photos too. Note the eyepieces don't focus, but instead both eye tubes are focusable so it isn't a concern.

The m3b is middle of the line, good optics but only has three distinct magnification settings. I'd look for an m3c or m3z for that money, or a Leica ms5, mz6 or m50.

Of those I'd probably go for the 7a--it's overpriced, but a good m7 is a gem of a scope.
Do you see the sample image taken from the m7a scope an issue on the eyepiece, objective or alignment? What part is need to be replaced to fix it? Link to the ebay item also linked if you want to see more pictures of the m7a for sale.

Amasa
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#9 Post by Amasa » Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:33 am

jfiresto wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:20 am
Amasa wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:47 am
... At 599 there's also this old looking but condition seems to be good Olympus SZ.
Do you have a link an Olympus specialist (not me) can look at?

Just for laughs, I tried taking a picture of the coin through a very similar Wild eyepiece with a bottom-of-the-line, Android 4 smart phone. Here is a 100% crop [click image to enlarge]:

Image

A modern camera on a photo tube will do much better than this camera phone and human camera holder.
This is the link to the Olympus SZ in ebay link which I could get around 599 euro.

jfiresto
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#10 Post by jfiresto » Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:42 am

Amasa wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:19 am
... Do you see the sample image taken from the m7a scope an issue on the eyepiece, objective or alignment? What part is need to be replaced to fix it? Link to the ebay item also linked if you want to see more pictures of the m7a for sale.
It could be an issue in the eyepiece. You would likely want to replace the eyepieces with more modern ones, anyway, especially if anyone wears glasses. The deal breaker for me is that the microscope is overpriced.
-John

Amasa
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#11 Post by Amasa » Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:49 am

jfiresto wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:42 am
Amasa wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:19 am
... Do you see the sample image taken from the m7a scope an issue on the eyepiece, objective or alignment? What part is need to be replaced to fix it? Link to the ebay item also linked if you want to see more pictures of the m7a for sale.
It could be an issue in the eyepiece. You would likely want to replace the eyepieces with more modern ones, anyway, especially if anyone wears glasses. The deal breaker for me is that the microscope is overpriced.
I do see different Wild 10X, 21 eyepiece, there's a, b and c. Do you know the differences between the a, b and c models?

What's the average price of used m7a? And what's the model name of m7a on the new Leica naming?

jfiresto
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#12 Post by jfiresto » Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:02 am

Amasa wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:49 am
... I do see different Wild 10X, 21 eyepiece, there's a, b and c. Do you know the differences between the a, b and c models?
You might want the B "high eyepoint" version you can use while wearing glasses. (It is marked with eyeglass symbols.) An advantage of the above M7A is its older model head has diopter adjustments on both eyepiece tubes. They will accommodate many other makes and models of eyepieces. Later heads come without them and expect and/or require adjustable eyepieces.
Amasa wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:49 am
What's the average price of used m7a? And what's the model name of m7a on the new Leica naming?
I paid about half as much for a fully Wild M7A on a light field base a few years ago. Leica discontinued the M7A because it became too expensive to manufacture, but not before trying to get it made in China. That fell through, but Motic ended up with the plans and continues to make and sell it as the repackaged K700. That is impressive for a 50 year old design!
-John

Amasa
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#13 Post by Amasa » Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:59 am

jfiresto wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:02 am
Amasa wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:49 am
... I do see different Wild 10X, 21 eyepiece, there's a, b and c. Do you know the differences between the a, b and c models?
You might want the B "high eyepoint" version you can use while wearing glasses. (It is marked with eyeglass symbols.) An advantage of the above M7A is its older model head has diopter adjustments on both eyepiece tubes. They will accommodate many other makes and models of eyepieces. Later heads come without them and expect and/or require adjustable eyepieces.
Amasa wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:49 am
What's the average price of used m7a? And what's the model name of m7a on the new Leica naming?
I paid about half as much for a fully Wild M7A on a light field base a few years ago. Leica discontinued the M7A because it became too expensive to manufacture, but not before trying to get it made in China. That fell through, but Motic ended up with the plans and continues to make and sell it as the repackaged K700. That is impressive for a 50 year old design!
Maybe this Wild m7a head could be had cheaper if we don't get the accesories. But looking at the head it's different from the first one posted. On the first one there are 3 markings of scale, numbers, 2 on the metal tube and 1 on the rubber. On this ebay m7a 2nd choice link there's only 1 print on the tube.

jfiresto
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#14 Post by jfiresto » Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:47 am

Amasa wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:59 am
... Maybe this Wild m7a head could be had cheaper if we don't get the accesories. But looking at the head it's different from the first one posted. On the first one there are 3 markings of scale, numbers, 2 on the metal tube and 1 on the rubber. On this ebay m7a 2nd choice link there's only 1 print on the tube.
It is usually more economical to buy a microscope, if you can find one, that includes the accessories you want or need. This is particularly true if you might need a microscope with a photo tube one day.

Wild produced the M7/M7A/M7S models for over twenty years and made major and minor refinements to them over the years. For example, in earlier years the focus knobs had markings to show how to set the focus tension. If you do not see Wild Heerbrugg anywhere, a microscope might also be the close Chinese copy from the 1990s.

EDIT: Yes, that horizontal example could be a copy. It is missing the exposure slide rule and the objective optical coating does not look right, from what I can see.
-John

Amasa
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#15 Post by Amasa » Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:35 pm

I will keep looking for used Wild m7. If you have other sources in Europe aside from ebay that sell them please post links.

jfiresto
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#16 Post by jfiresto » Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:39 pm

If I see anything, I will let you know.
-John

Amasa
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#17 Post by Amasa » Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:24 am

How good are the Wild m8 compared to the m7a, is it worth looking for used m8? They are produced earlier than m7s so it may be a bit modern but could be produced slightly cheaply like it doesn't have diopter on both eyetubes.

Scarodactyl
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#18 Post by Scarodactyl » Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:38 am

The m8 is a tier higher than the m7. More sophisticated optics and a wider zoom ratio. The only better stereo Wild made was the rare M10. If you find a deal on a used m8 take it and run. I've bought a few m7s cheap over the years, but never owned an m8, cheap ones disappear fast. I do have the later Leica mz75 which has similar specs and is extremely nice.
Over time high end stereos shifted to having focusable eyepieces rather than focusable oculars. Maybe it was cheaper to build that way but practically speaking it isn't a big deal.

Amasa
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#19 Post by Amasa » Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:05 am

What's the right price for a a used m8 so I can use as baseline?

Scarodactyl
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#20 Post by Scarodactyl » Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:12 am

In the US around 1000usd on eBay for a complete one, more if you need one right now, less if you're willing to make a riskier buy and assemble from parts.

Cheapest option I see: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wild-Heerbrugg ... 4568023730
You'd still need the binocular tube with eyepieces and a stand, but thry are available.

Amasa
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#21 Post by Amasa » Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:16 am

Complete meaning a normal stand or with the lightfield/ darkfield stand?

Scarodactyl
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#22 Post by Scarodactyl » Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:04 pm

Usually a normal stand. Wild/leica bfdf stands are usually kind of expensive but deals do pop up sometimes.

Amasa
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#23 Post by Amasa » Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:19 pm

There's an M8 that is offered to me but with 20x eyepiece and 1x objective. The widest magnication with this setup is 12x. I still would like to have below 10x magnification for my kid to view larger objects as it will have wider magnification.

There are two options to achieve this, buy either:
- 0.4x additional objective = 4.8x magnification/ 53mm field diameter
- 10x eyepiece = 6.0x magnification / 33.8mm field diameter

Based on manual, the field diameter is bigger on 0.4x objective/20x eyepiece compared to 1x objective/10x eyepiece on the same magnification. On paper it seems better but I don't know on actual usage which option is better.

Is it better that I buy 0.4 additional objective or 10x eyepiece?

jfiresto
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#24 Post by jfiresto » Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:58 pm

Amasa wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:19 pm
... Is it better that I buy 0.4 additional objective or 10x eyepiece?
It depends on what you all consider consider "better". There is a tradeoff: 10X eyepieces and no auxiliary objective will produce sharper images; 20X eyepieces and the 0.4X auxiliary objective will give you more depth of field and much more working distance. Working distance is often the deciding factor. This woman is repairing a canvas under a Wild M8 (click image to enlarge):

Image

Her work is pretty flat, and her tools and thread are not very thick, so she has room to comfortably sew under the unadorned 1X(?) plan objective. She would have a lot of extra room if she added the 0.4X auxiliary, but would probably have to sit on a high stool to look into the eyepieces.
-John

Scarodactyl
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#25 Post by Scarodactyl » Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:12 pm

You probably want 10x eyepieces to replace the 20xes but they aren't necessarily expensive to get. Nikon stereo eyepieces are compatible as well as some cheaper Chinese ones. A 0.4x aux is good for super wide fields of view and long working distance and would be a nice accessory to have, especially if you want to do work under the microscope.

jfiresto
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#26 Post by jfiresto » Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:53 pm

Scarodactyl wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:12 pm
You probably want 10x eyepieces to replace the 20xes ... Nikon stereo eyepieces are compatible....
+1 for getting 10X eyepieces. Are the fixed Nikon eyepieces parfocal or do they need to be adjustable? The Olympus and Zeiss eyepieces I have tried expect a shallower intermediate image. It would be cool if Nikon eyepieces are as deep as Wild.
-John

Scarodactyl
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#27 Post by Scarodactyl » Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:02 pm

It does vary from head to head--I think later Leica ones changed the depth at some point. But non-focusable nikon and wild oculars have been compatible in my experience, able to be adjusted to parfocality. Focusing Nikons on a Wild head designed for focusing ones were pretty close iirc, not quite parfocal but maybe worth it for an ultrawide FoV (which Wilds can typically cover, though intermediate accessories may reduce to image circle.)

Amasa
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#28 Post by Amasa » Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:04 am

Are the Nikon suggested over the Wild 10x/21 eyepiece or because it's generally cheaper used or because it has a bigger field number.

Scarodactyl
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#29 Post by Scarodactyl » Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:27 am

It widens your search when buying used. Soketimes Wilds come up cheap (especially the 10x/21c variant viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9554 ) , more oftrn Nikons do. Wild limited theirs to a 21mm field number but a wider field like 10x/23 will work so that is a potential advantage for a Nikon.

dazz
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Re: Advice on buying Stereo Microscope

#30 Post by dazz » Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:58 am

Hi
I found this post because I am searching for advice on buying a stereo microscope for use with electronics. At present I am using an old Watson Barnet like this one https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-46jufh/ ... 87.jpg?c=2 but the narrow field of view of the eye pieces is a problem. I have to have my eyes at precisely the right place to view. I am looking to upgrade.

I have some options.
There is a Leica S4E https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketplace ... f=bRN6PI3z for $USD420.
There is a steady stream of Kyowa ex University microscopes being sold for about $USD275. The latest example https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketplace ... f=CsGi5uYg

I have also been looking on the USA/Canada ebay sites but ebay is horrible to deal with and the shipping cost to New Zealand adds a lot to the total cost without adding value. There is no possibility of returning faulty goods. Stereo microscopes are relatively rare in New Zealand so patience is essential and I can't be too narrow in my selection.

There are plenty of candidate suppliers on Aliexpress like this one https://www.aliexpress.com/store/537428 ... 76284886.0 but difficult to figure out the specs and quality. Feedback I have read indicates assembly instructions are rubbish but that shouldn't be a major problem for me. The good thing I have found with Aliexpress is that price is a good indicator of quality. If you pay more, you get more.

I don't know enough about microscopes to judge which option might provide the best value (not the same as the cheapest option). Any advice would be much appreciated.

Dazz

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