Amscope T340B-DK vs. Amscope T490B-DK

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Jimbo
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Amscope T340B-DK vs. Amscope T490B-DK

#1 Post by Jimbo » Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:21 pm

Does anyone know the difference between these two scopes?
One is $363 the other about $450. I’m anxious to get on the phone and order my first scope and don’t want any regrets.

Red_Green
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Re: Amscope T340B-DK vs. Amscope T490B-DK

#2 Post by Red_Green » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:02 pm

I don't know the differnce but I can vouch for the Amscope T490B DK being an awesome microscope. Just look up my threads and see the pics.

Advice though, save some money and forgo the darkfield and either make or buy some patch stops. Cheaper and more effective in the long run.

InstantMochiii
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Re: Amscope T340B-DK vs. Amscope T490B-DK

#3 Post by InstantMochiii » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:39 pm

I'd say go for the cheaper one. They seem to be pretty much the same, except the design of the body and base changed. In fact, I might go ahead and get the Amscope T340B-DK-LED myself... Especially after that last thread you made! (It was really useful, that last thread, haha.)

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Re: Amscope T340B-DK vs. Amscope T490B-DK

#4 Post by InstantMochiii » Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:32 pm

You know what? I don't really know anymore... Literally NO ONE has gotten the T340B-DK for some reason? (probs cuz the visual :/) But I did find an interesting thread on this forum.

https://www.microbehunter.com/microscop ... led#p99582

It seems that the only viable difference is what it looks like.

Jimbo
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Re: Amscope T340B-DK vs. Amscope T490B-DK

#5 Post by Jimbo » Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:27 am

Thank you all for your input. I think I have decided!

The Amscope T490A. As Red Green said, it would save money and patch stops are faster to change.
I like that it has 15X eyepieces and I plan to buy a 20X and 60X objective. Perhaps drop the 4X from the turret.
It is HARD to choose a microscope!

Greg Howald
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Re: Amscope T340B-DK vs. Amscope T490B-DK

#6 Post by Greg Howald » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:03 am

I own a b340-dk. It is comparable to the 490 with one exception. The 490 has 30 watt 12 volt halogen bulb. Dark field, polarization, phase contrast must be so good.
I'm so envious. Buy the 490.
Greg

ScienceMatters
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Re: Amscope T340B-DK vs. Amscope T490B-DK

#7 Post by ScienceMatters » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:51 am

The T490A and T490B-DK have a 20W bulb. For the 30W bulb, look at the T400A-30W. That was my first microscope and I would definitely recommend the 30W bulb if you’re into dark field. At higher magnifications, you need it.

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Re: Amscope T340B-DK vs. Amscope T490B-DK

#8 Post by dtsh » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:47 pm

Jimbo wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:27 am
Thank you all for your input. I think I have decided!

The Amscope T490A. As Red Green said, it would save money and patch stops are faster to change.
I like that it has 15X eyepieces and I plan to buy a 20X and 60X objective. Perhaps drop the 4X from the turret.
It is HARD to choose a microscope!
If you're trying to save money, the 15x eyepieces will make the 20x and 60x largely redundant as the 10x will become 15x and the 40x will become 60x.

Jimbo
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Re: Amscope T340B-DK vs. Amscope T490B-DK

#9 Post by Jimbo » Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:48 pm

Sciencematters, thanks for the wattage info. The T490A also offers a 3w led. Would you still want the 30w halogen?

dtsh, good advice on the ep’s helping to fill in on the magnification. I hadn’t though that far ahead.
So now it looks like either the T490A-LED or the T400A-30W. They are now both listed at about $402.
Anybody?

InstantMochiii
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Re: Amscope T340B-DK vs. Amscope T490B-DK

#10 Post by InstantMochiii » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:14 pm

Jimbo wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:48 pm
Sciencematters, thanks for the wattage info. The T490A also offers a 3w led. Would you still want the 30w halogen?

dtsh, good advice on the ep’s helping to fill in on the magnification. I hadn’t though that far ahead.
So now it looks like either the T490A-LED or the T400A-30W. They are now both listed at about $402.
Anybody?
I'd say T490A-LED, as halogen heats up and can kill some organisms. Also, LED is white, and halogen is yellow-ish.

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Re: Amscope T340B-DK vs. Amscope T490B-DK

#11 Post by Jimbo » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:46 pm

InstantMochiii, I was thinking the same thing, just wondering if the amount of light will be ok with 3W led vs. 30W halogen.

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Re: Amscope T340B-DK vs. Amscope T490B-DK

#12 Post by Jimbo » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:10 pm

I also plan to buy an extra 10X and 16X ep. I am planning to just put my iPhone on the trinocular port. Looking into a camera someday, but not yet.

dtsh
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Re: Amscope T340B-DK vs. Amscope T490B-DK

#13 Post by dtsh » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:34 pm

Jimbo wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:46 pm
InstantMochiii, I was thinking the same thing, just wondering if the amount of light will be ok with 3W led vs. 30W halogen.
3W should be sufficient for regular brightfield, but may be insufficient when using filters that block a lot of light or when using light intense methods such as darkfield.

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Re: Amscope T340B-DK vs. Amscope T490B-DK

#14 Post by InstantMochiii » Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:42 pm

Jimbo wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:46 pm
InstantMochiii, I was thinking the same thing, just wondering if the amount of light will be ok with 3W led vs. 30W halogen.
I saw a review on Amazon saying that it was 1W and the product description was wrong, so now I'm confused :/

InstantMochiii
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Re: Amscope T340B-DK vs. Amscope T490B-DK

#15 Post by InstantMochiii » Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:48 pm

dtsh wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:34 pm
Jimbo wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:46 pm
InstantMochiii, I was thinking the same thing, just wondering if the amount of light will be ok with 3W led vs. 30W halogen.
3W should be sufficient for regular brightfield, but may be insufficient when using filters that block a lot of light or when using light intense methods such as darkfield.
Are there any microscopes with an LED light that is 30W? T-T Or is that hard to do with LED? :( To be honest, wattage doesn't matter, but I want to be able to use darkfield imaging! DX

dtsh
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Re: Amscope T340B-DK vs. Amscope T490B-DK

#16 Post by dtsh » Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:01 pm

InstantMochiii wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:48 pm
dtsh wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:34 pm
Jimbo wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:46 pm
InstantMochiii, I was thinking the same thing, just wondering if the amount of light will be ok with 3W led vs. 30W halogen.
3W should be sufficient for regular brightfield, but may be insufficient when using filters that block a lot of light or when using light intense methods such as darkfield.
Are there any microscopes with an LED light that is 30W? T-T Or is that hard to do with LED? :( To be honest, wattage doesn't matter, but I want to be able to use darkfield imaging! DX
Probably? I know there are some with just under 20w from the factory and I've retrofitted a 12w LED to an AO10, but I'm not knowledgable on the new stuff since I buy older scopes as the tinkering aspect is as much fun for me as the using.
I will say that you hear about how much more light darkfield needs and it's not an exageration (at least with what I have), 20w halogen feels like it's just barely enough and I'm certain more would be much better.

InstantMochiii
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Re: Amscope T340B-DK vs. Amscope T490B-DK

#17 Post by InstantMochiii » Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:40 pm

dtsh wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:01 pm
InstantMochiii wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:48 pm
dtsh wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:34 pm


3W should be sufficient for regular brightfield, but may be insufficient when using filters that block a lot of light or when using light intense methods such as darkfield.
Are there any microscopes with an LED light that is 30W? T-T Or is that hard to do with LED? :( To be honest, wattage doesn't matter, but I want to be able to use darkfield imaging! DX
Probably? I know there are some with just under 20w from the factory and I've retrofitted a 12w LED to an AO10, but I'm not knowledgable on the new stuff since I buy older scopes as the tinkering aspect is as much fun for me as the using.
I will say that you hear about how much more light darkfield needs and it's not an exageration (at least with what I have), 20w halogen feels like it's just barely enough and I'm certain more would be much better.
ok, so after some research I've figured out that 3W in LED is equivalent to ~20-25W in halogen. :D

Red_Green
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Re: Amscope T340B-DK vs. Amscope T490B-DK

#18 Post by Red_Green » Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:31 pm

InstantMochiii wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:40 pm
I will say that you hear about how much more light darkfield needs and it's not an exageration (at least with what I have), 20w halogen feels like it's just barely enough and I'm certain more would be much better.
I agree with this. Sort of. With the standard Abbe and darkfield condensers I always felt that more light was needed.

I can't explain it but the brightfiled abbe condenser that is built into the Amscope phase turret has the exact same specs as the standard brightfeild condenser that came with the microscope but for some reason I can't explain the phase kit lets significantly more light in resulting in a much more brighter superior darkfield.

Actually the built in brightfeild condenser on the turret is so bright, it has damn near blinded me on several occasions if I forgot to turn it down lol.

The light bulb is the same and everything has the same specs, so I don't understand it and can't explain it.

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Re: Amscope T340B-DK vs. Amscope T490B-DK

#19 Post by PeteM » Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:36 pm

[/quote]

ok, so after some research I've figured out that 3W in LED is equivalent to ~20-25W in halogen. :D
[/quote]

Various sources suggest that halogen lamps put out around 15-25 lumens per watt - let's say 20. For LED it's around 70-100 lumens per watt - let's say 80. So, LEDS have about 4x the luminous efficiency.

A 20 watt halogen source would be around 400 lumens and a 3 watt LED source around 240 lumens. Flashlights often claim something like 1000 lumens, but it's usually hype or cheating on the solid angle part of lumen measurements.

Most value-priced microscopes currently have something like a 1 watt or 3 watt LED lamp - so they aren't as bright as the typical 20 watt halogen scope from some decades ago. The real kicker is the design of the illumination source. A well designed one relies on the relatively small area of the tungsten filament, condensing lenses, and Kohler illumination to get most of that light into the field of view. Same with well designed LED scopes. However, many use things like large COB sources and heavy diffusion to get an even field. Much of the light is wasted.

My own experience is that a 5watt well-color-corrected LED in a properly designed system is about the minimum one would want to replace a 20 watt halogen and 10 watts to have a significant improvement. As others have said, most anything works for brightfield. It's the higher magnifications and phase contrast, darkfield, DIC etc. that gobble up light.

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Re: Amscope T340B-DK vs. Amscope T490B-DK

#20 Post by Jimbo » Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:13 am

After reading all about dark field requiring a lot of light, I think I will go with the T400A-30W. Wish there were reviews on it, but I’m sure it will be fine. I have also tallied up $230 worth of slides, polarizing film, a phone adapter and extra 10X and 16X eyepiece for the third port. One extra luxury I will get is the 60X plan objective. I just have to try it! Last two items I can think of are a tool kit and the book “Ponds and small lakes”. It’s a lot, but I’m giving up one hobby for another as I plan to sell some of my Astronomy toys to help pay for this. I will always love astronomy, but it’s too difficult for me physically now, and it makes sense to look inward now after years of looking outward.
Can’t wait to get started!

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Re: Amscope T340B-DK vs. Amscope T490B-DK

#21 Post by farnsy » Sun May 16, 2021 11:56 pm

PeteM wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:36 pm
Various sources suggest that halogen lamps put out around 15-25 lumens per watt - let's say 20. For LED it's around 70-100 lumens per watt - let's say 80. So, LEDS have about 4x the luminous efficiency.
...

Most value-priced microscopes currently have something like a 1 watt or 3 watt LED lamp - so they aren't as bright as the typical 20 watt halogen scope from some decades ago. The real kicker is the design of the illumination source. A well designed one relies on the relatively small area of the tungsten filament, condensing lenses, and Kohler illumination to get most of that light into the field of view. Same with well designed LED scopes. However, many use things like large COB sources and heavy diffusion to get an even field. Much of the light is wasted.

My own experience is that a 5watt well-color-corrected LED in a properly designed system is about the minimum one would want to replace a 20 watt halogen and 10 watts to have a significant improvement. As others have said, most anything works for brightfield. It's the higher magnifications and phase contrast, darkfield, DIC etc. that gobble up light.
I would think this analysis may depend on the design. A 20 watt halogen bulb radiates light both toward the mirror that sends the light to the specimen and in the opposite direction (and all the other directions as well). Most (or just about all) microscope LED designs do not radiate as much in the direction away from the specimen and often, I understand, have collminating lenses that greatly reduce the amount of wasted light. Even expensive microscopes these days have low wattage LED light sources. I happen to have looked at the Olympus CX43 the other day, a $5,000+ microscope, and noticed it has a 2.4 watt LED light source. The engineers seem to think it's plenty for the high magnification phase contrast objectives that it comes with--at least, I haven't heard any complaints about it having poor illumination. The Nikon E200 family came with either a 41 watt halogen or 3 watt LED. Presumably the two were comparable. Under the calculations you suggested, the halogen would be 3.4X brighter.

I don't own a bunch of LED microscopes or anything ("I'm not an expert, but I do watch a lot of youtube videos"), but I think we should be cautious before assuming that a 20 watt halogen system is brighter or better than a 3 watt LED. There are variations in the design parameters that throw off a simple lumens/watt comparison.

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Re: Amscope T340B-DK vs. Amscope T490B-DK

#22 Post by PeteM » Mon May 17, 2021 4:05 pm

farnsy wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 11:56 pm
PeteM wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:36 pm
Various sources suggest that halogen lamps put out around 15-25 lumens per watt - let's say 20. For LED it's around 70-100 lumens per watt - let's say 80. So, LEDS have about 4x the luminous efficiency.
...

Most value-priced microscopes currently have something like a 1 watt or 3 watt LED lamp - so they aren't as bright as the typical 20 watt halogen scope from some decades ago. The real kicker is the design of the illumination source. A well designed one relies on the relatively small area of the tungsten filament, condensing lenses, and Kohler illumination to get most of that light into the field of view. Same with well designed LED scopes. However, many use things like large COB sources and heavy diffusion to get an even field. Much of the light is wasted.

My own experience is that a 5watt well-color-corrected LED in a properly designed system is about the minimum one would want to replace a 20 watt halogen and 10 watts to have a significant improvement. As others have said, most anything works for brightfield. It's the higher magnifications and phase contrast, darkfield, DIC etc. that gobble up light.
I would think this analysis may depend on the design. . .
We'd mostly agree. The original post said as much - that the design mattered. Some further notes:

1) Zeiss' own microscopy site sets the same 100 lumens per watt upper limit. So 3 watts x 100 lumens would likely max out around 300 lumens.

2) Most of the cheaper Chinese scopes i've seen don't have particularly well-designed light sources. Some will get the light fairly directly into the condenser, but fail to have either very even illumination or some means of control (poorly collimated, no field iris). Others - andy many retrofits - rely upon extensive diffusion to get an even field.

3) Even the Nikon 200 and even the Olympus CX series, while bearing high prices, are near the bottom of their lines.

4) The situation is likely to keep improving. At the high end, we're getting more lumens in smaller LED dies as OEMS learn to make ones capable of handling higher power and maintaining a good CRI. At the low end some scopes are being completely redesigned, rather than just stuff a cheap LED lamp where the old tungsten-halogen lamp used to be. Wouldn't be a surprise that the better makers can now do with a 3 watt LED what they used to do with a 20 watt halogen bulb. Also wouldn't be a surprise that the cheaper scopes with 1 watt LEDS or COB units and lousy design still won't provide enough light for some methods at higher magnifications.

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