Help Choosing between Laborlux K or Swift 380
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- Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:07 am
Help Choosing between Laborlux K or Swift 380
Hi Guys,
My name is Rafael and im from Portugal.
This is my first post ever and i hope im in the right place/topic.
Here we dont have any forum or any other site to beggin or get help or learn. Im very happy ive found microbeHunter channel and society and i cant wait to get my first microscope.
Im basicaly a noob and im trying to learn but my english is not that good and some things are dificult to understand to me. That being said...
I was going to buy a Swift 380 but i saw a second hand Laborlux K for the same price. Now im divided.
As far as i know, the major difference is that Laborlux K has Phase Contrast and EF lens, and the Swift dont. I think phase contrast is an very good feature, but what about the EF lens?
What should i do? What is your opinion?
My name is Rafael and im from Portugal.
This is my first post ever and i hope im in the right place/topic.
Here we dont have any forum or any other site to beggin or get help or learn. Im very happy ive found microbeHunter channel and society and i cant wait to get my first microscope.
Im basicaly a noob and im trying to learn but my english is not that good and some things are dificult to understand to me. That being said...
I was going to buy a Swift 380 but i saw a second hand Laborlux K for the same price. Now im divided.
As far as i know, the major difference is that Laborlux K has Phase Contrast and EF lens, and the Swift dont. I think phase contrast is an very good feature, but what about the EF lens?
What should i do? What is your opinion?
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- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 12:15 am
Re: Help Choosing between Laborlux K or Swift 380
The first thing you need to do when buying a used microscope is get an assurance from the vendor, that the microscope is in good working order. If that cannot be done, then find out just what functions of the microscope are not in good working order. Based on that , you have to decide whether those functions not working up to spec. are easily repairable.
A Laborlux K with phase in good working order is a far superior microscope to a Swift 380. The latter is an entry level stand of simple and unlikely to be durable construction. They are made for mass market sale and not designed to be improved or upgraded beyond their basic capability. The Laborlux K has greater possibility for upgrades and when clean and working well, will provide superior performance.
One annoying aspect of entry level mass market microscopes that seldom gets mentioned, is the lack of precision in the optical path. While the design assures optical precision in theory, the practical aspects of their production and limited profit obtainable down through the marketing chain means that few inspections or adjustments are performed on the instrument after assembly in the factory. Defects in an instruments precision are usually discovered during use . Typical problems are that the objective parcentering is poor and or the optical path is not true. While it is possible that you can get a good one right out of the box, it is not often the case. Unfortunately, those unaccustomed to using microscopes usually just accept such defects as normal and by the time they find out about such performance issues, they either put up or opt to spend more money on another microscope, rather than adjusting or upgrading the one they have.
Buying a quality adjustable and upgradeable microscope at the start is a prefereable option.
A Laborlux K with phase in good working order is a far superior microscope to a Swift 380. The latter is an entry level stand of simple and unlikely to be durable construction. They are made for mass market sale and not designed to be improved or upgraded beyond their basic capability. The Laborlux K has greater possibility for upgrades and when clean and working well, will provide superior performance.
One annoying aspect of entry level mass market microscopes that seldom gets mentioned, is the lack of precision in the optical path. While the design assures optical precision in theory, the practical aspects of their production and limited profit obtainable down through the marketing chain means that few inspections or adjustments are performed on the instrument after assembly in the factory. Defects in an instruments precision are usually discovered during use . Typical problems are that the objective parcentering is poor and or the optical path is not true. While it is possible that you can get a good one right out of the box, it is not often the case. Unfortunately, those unaccustomed to using microscopes usually just accept such defects as normal and by the time they find out about such performance issues, they either put up or opt to spend more money on another microscope, rather than adjusting or upgrading the one they have.
Buying a quality adjustable and upgradeable microscope at the start is a prefereable option.
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- Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:07 am
Re: Help Choosing between Laborlux K or Swift 380
Wau that was a very complete and helpfull answare! Thank you very much.
Interesting facts about durability and upgrading options i wasnt aware.
The seller says the microscope is in perfect condition and he have good reviews on his page and he lives 3 hours from me. I guess ill go visit him and test the microscope before the purchase.
I will try to find here in the forum on how to test a second hand microscope.
As soon as i get one microscope, i will show my purchase and share that happiness!
Interesting facts about durability and upgrading options i wasnt aware.
The seller says the microscope is in perfect condition and he have good reviews on his page and he lives 3 hours from me. I guess ill go visit him and test the microscope before the purchase.
I will try to find here in the forum on how to test a second hand microscope.
As soon as i get one microscope, i will show my purchase and share that happiness!
Re: Help Choosing between Laborlux K or Swift 380
Hi InfiniteCosmos, welcome.
See if you can take a slide and cover slip with you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxTFgDe5CEE
or try to purchase a prepared slide before you go to have something to focus on.
The key word is smooth. So the Course and Fine focus should move smoothly as should the stage controls.
Field diaphragm should open and close smoothly as should the condenser diaphragm.
Condenser should also rotate through the the Phase and brightfield ports smoothly as well.
Took the liberty of looking up your microscope in Olx, it looks to be in very nice condition, do note that even though it has a Phase condenser it does not seem to have Phase Objectives.
Not a major problem, it is easier to find Phase objectives than a Phase condenser.
It does mean however that you will not be able to test the phase illumination at this time.
What you can do is observe each Phase Annulus through the eyepiece tube by removing the eyepiece and looking down the tube when the appropriate phase port is in position.
Another option is to remove the condenser and observe the annulus from underneath, this in fact might be best since you will not have a Phase telescope at this time.
Make sure they look complete, as in a solid circular band.
Do note that The Universal Condenser UKL (see manual in link below) does Phase, Darkfield and Brightfield.
http://science-info.net/docs/leitz/Leit ... ochure.pdf
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... Manual.pdf
Note: You need to take into account the cost of a trinocular head (should you wish to take photos regularly) and the cost of buying Phase objectives
before deciding if and how much you are willing to spend on this microscope.
.
Not always possible but definitely a good idea when it can be arranged.I guess ill go visit him and test the microscope before the purchase.
See if you can take a slide and cover slip with you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxTFgDe5CEE
or try to purchase a prepared slide before you go to have something to focus on.
The key word is smooth. So the Course and Fine focus should move smoothly as should the stage controls.
Field diaphragm should open and close smoothly as should the condenser diaphragm.
Condenser should also rotate through the the Phase and brightfield ports smoothly as well.
Took the liberty of looking up your microscope in Olx, it looks to be in very nice condition, do note that even though it has a Phase condenser it does not seem to have Phase Objectives.
Not a major problem, it is easier to find Phase objectives than a Phase condenser.
It does mean however that you will not be able to test the phase illumination at this time.
What you can do is observe each Phase Annulus through the eyepiece tube by removing the eyepiece and looking down the tube when the appropriate phase port is in position.
Another option is to remove the condenser and observe the annulus from underneath, this in fact might be best since you will not have a Phase telescope at this time.
Make sure they look complete, as in a solid circular band.
Do note that The Universal Condenser UKL (see manual in link below) does Phase, Darkfield and Brightfield.
http://science-info.net/docs/leitz/Leit ... ochure.pdf
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... Manual.pdf
Note: You need to take into account the cost of a trinocular head (should you wish to take photos regularly) and the cost of buying Phase objectives
before deciding if and how much you are willing to spend on this microscope.
.
Last edited by 75RR on Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Re: Help Choosing between Laborlux K or Swift 380
A few years ago, a forum member from France posted marvelous photos achieved with a Laborlux K on this forum.
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- Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:07 am
Re: Help Choosing between Laborlux K or Swift 380
Hi! Thank You very much!
You guys are simply amazing.
You right, it lack the phase objectives...
What i have in mind is to learn and study the micro nature, take videos on behavior of the specimens and maybe share it on YouTube too for other curious minds to see and maybe i can make other People to get interested on microscopy like i am now.
So, if im not wrong, my idea for now is to connect a Gopro or my Phone camera in one of those binocular holes.
I will never forget the "smooth" word everytime touch a microscope again
I guess the trinocular head can wait a couple years, the problem now is the expensive phase contrast lenses to work on this brand. Even if i had only one or two phase lens i think would be enough? Since the microscope have a 5 lenses revolver.
Even without the phase contrast lenses, Laborlux K keep being a better choice? To my little knowledge, the darkfield on Swift 380 can me achieved by making filters. But Swift 380 will never de able to do phase contrast, right?(or will require a 500€ phase contrast kit)
One of my big Dreams is to observe(making timelapse) on immune cells fighting bacteria. Thats why i got so divided. I think phase contrast is better for this kind of observation.
You guys are simply amazing.
You right, it lack the phase objectives...
What i have in mind is to learn and study the micro nature, take videos on behavior of the specimens and maybe share it on YouTube too for other curious minds to see and maybe i can make other People to get interested on microscopy like i am now.
So, if im not wrong, my idea for now is to connect a Gopro or my Phone camera in one of those binocular holes.
I will never forget the "smooth" word everytime touch a microscope again
I guess the trinocular head can wait a couple years, the problem now is the expensive phase contrast lenses to work on this brand. Even if i had only one or two phase lens i think would be enough? Since the microscope have a 5 lenses revolver.
Even without the phase contrast lenses, Laborlux K keep being a better choice? To my little knowledge, the darkfield on Swift 380 can me achieved by making filters. But Swift 380 will never de able to do phase contrast, right?(or will require a 500€ phase contrast kit)
One of my big Dreams is to observe(making timelapse) on immune cells fighting bacteria. Thats why i got so divided. I think phase contrast is better for this kind of observation.
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- Posts: 1546
- Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:29 am
- Location: Georgia, USA
Re: Help Choosing between Laborlux K or Swift 380
If the K has a phase turret that's a no brainer buy it. No need to make your own darkfield filters when you have a phase turret you will be able to achieve darkfield better than homemade filters with the annular diaphragms. You can have just a couple phase lenses. I often have bf lens s alongside phase lenses as I don't like using phase lenses for bf or df. Trinocular is nice sometimes, but you can also drop a camera into an eyepiece if need be. Sometimes this is a desirable modality as you can observe with one ocular the exact image in the other simultaneously.
1942 Bausch and Lomb Series T Dynoptic, Custom Illumination
Re: Help Choosing between Laborlux K or Swift 380
If the seller can provide you a picture showing the microscope and its lenses and condenser -- and you post it here -- we can double check that compatible parts are in place before your 6 hour trip.
As others have said, the Laborlux K would be a very nice scope, especially if complete with phase objectives and condenser.
As others have said, the Laborlux K would be a very nice scope, especially if complete with phase objectives and condenser.
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- Posts: 20
- Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:07 am
Re: Help Choosing between Laborlux K or Swift 380
Hi!
I'm here to share the results of all the help you guys gave me.
Today i bought a microscope, the LaborLux K i'm happy with it. Everything is tight and working nice and smoothly. Diaphragm is perfect as well as the stage and the Spring-Loads. The only thing i personaly dont like is the lamp that heats allot. Tomorrow i'll Blow the dust off and clean the microscope.
This Microscope came with two big surprises, one good and one bad.
The Bad one is: the "Universal UKL Condenser" only came with Dark Field Filters: 4 DF Filters + 1 BF Hole + 1 empty Slot?...
The Good one is: the microscope came with one 40x PHACO 2 Lens! So i got:
EF 4X
EF 10X
EF 40X
EF 100X oil
EF 40X Phaco 2
I really need a 60x BF Objective but i think it might be interesting to buy first the phase contrast filter for the condenser so i can use the phase lens. I saw phase contrast filters on Ebay and i think i will go for em.
Once again, Thank you All for helping me with my initiation and for all the advising
I'm here to share the results of all the help you guys gave me.
Today i bought a microscope, the LaborLux K i'm happy with it. Everything is tight and working nice and smoothly. Diaphragm is perfect as well as the stage and the Spring-Loads. The only thing i personaly dont like is the lamp that heats allot. Tomorrow i'll Blow the dust off and clean the microscope.
This Microscope came with two big surprises, one good and one bad.
The Bad one is: the "Universal UKL Condenser" only came with Dark Field Filters: 4 DF Filters + 1 BF Hole + 1 empty Slot?...
The Good one is: the microscope came with one 40x PHACO 2 Lens! So i got:
EF 4X
EF 10X
EF 40X
EF 100X oil
EF 40X Phaco 2
I really need a 60x BF Objective but i think it might be interesting to buy first the phase contrast filter for the condenser so i can use the phase lens. I saw phase contrast filters on Ebay and i think i will go for em.
Once again, Thank you All for helping me with my initiation and for all the advising
Re: Help Choosing between Laborlux K or Swift 380
Congratulation on your purchase. I have a Laborlux 12 that looks to be essentially the same, that I like a lot. For mine, I bought a phase condenser for $200, and some phase objectives for under $100 each. You should have no trouble finding a 10x.
Are you sure the condenser has 4 darkfield plates and no phase plates? I don't think it would come with 4 darkfield plates. The 513558 turret condenser I bought looks similar to yours, and it has 3 phase plates and 1 darkfield plate. At first glance the plates can look much the same as they both have circular cutouts.
Here is the model I purchased:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/383767638041?e ... SwnZJfianC
The numbered positions of my condenser are:
H -brightfield
1 - phase1
2 - phase2
3 - phase3
4 - empty
5 - darkfield
Are you sure the condenser has 4 darkfield plates and no phase plates? I don't think it would come with 4 darkfield plates. The 513558 turret condenser I bought looks similar to yours, and it has 3 phase plates and 1 darkfield plate. At first glance the plates can look much the same as they both have circular cutouts.
Here is the model I purchased:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/383767638041?e ... SwnZJfianC
The numbered positions of my condenser are:
H -brightfield
1 - phase1
2 - phase2
3 - phase3
4 - empty
5 - darkfield
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- Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:07 am
Re: Help Choosing between Laborlux K or Swift 380
Hi Dubious!
Thank You nice to meet you!
Its the same condenser yess.
I even tried to focus on the phase contrast lens after all the alighnment of the diaphragms and nothing happened, tomorrow i will try again but with the right filter(Po:2) and the right sample!
I cant believe this works as a phase filter... Thats why i only got the DarkFiled effect with only one filter What a mess!
As a Laborlux 12 owner, do you know if its possible to use other brand objectives on these microscopes?
Thank You nice to meet you!
Its the same condenser yess.
...maybe im wrong(i hope i'm wrong!), but they look like DF filters...let me show you. The filters look made of plastic as you said, and to my little know, i thought the phase contrast filters were all made of glass. On Youtube and so on, i see only phase contrast filters made of glass. Thats why i made an assumption.
I even tried to focus on the phase contrast lens after all the alighnment of the diaphragms and nothing happened, tomorrow i will try again but with the right filter(Po:2) and the right sample!
I cant believe this works as a phase filter... Thats why i only got the DarkFiled effect with only one filter What a mess!
As a Laborlux 12 owner, do you know if its possible to use other brand objectives on these microscopes?
Re: Help Choosing between Laborlux K or Swift 380
Yes, just like mine, so you are all set! Positions 1, 2 and 3 have phase plates. The cutout in each that lets the light through is the phase annulus. Leitz chose to use cutouts in an opaque plate, but it can also be done with a clear ring on a dark glass, which is what you saw elsewhere; the main thing is just to produce a light ring of the appropriate size to match the dark ring in the back plane of the objective. As you probably know, you need to place the light ring of the condenser optically inside the dark ring of the objective in order for phase contrast to work.
These sites have some information on how it works; maybe someone else knows of better explanations.
https://www.leica-microsystems.com/scie ... -contrast/
https://microscope-microscope.org/micro ... icroscope/
If you don't already have it, the Laborlux S instruction manual is useful (I've never been able to find a manual specifically for the 12; perhaps there is one for the K somewhere).
http://earth2geologists.net/Microscopes ... ctions.pdf
Pages 13-16 give the procedure for adjusting the condenser and optical system for phase contrast. Getting everything aligned properly can be tricky, so don't be discouraged if at first it doesn't seem to work.
In answer to your question, you can to some degree use other brand objectives if meant for a 160mm tube; but that should not be your first choice, as most manufacturers of that era, including Leitz, designed their eyepieces to correct for spherical and chromatic aberrations in their objectives. That is, other makers' objectives will work, at least for brightfield/darkfield, but you may not like the result. It's pretty much trial and error, unless someone here knows which other manufacturers' objectives are most likely to be compatible with Leitz eyepieces.
These sites have some information on how it works; maybe someone else knows of better explanations.
https://www.leica-microsystems.com/scie ... -contrast/
https://microscope-microscope.org/micro ... icroscope/
If you don't already have it, the Laborlux S instruction manual is useful (I've never been able to find a manual specifically for the 12; perhaps there is one for the K somewhere).
http://earth2geologists.net/Microscopes ... ctions.pdf
Pages 13-16 give the procedure for adjusting the condenser and optical system for phase contrast. Getting everything aligned properly can be tricky, so don't be discouraged if at first it doesn't seem to work.
In answer to your question, you can to some degree use other brand objectives if meant for a 160mm tube; but that should not be your first choice, as most manufacturers of that era, including Leitz, designed their eyepieces to correct for spherical and chromatic aberrations in their objectives. That is, other makers' objectives will work, at least for brightfield/darkfield, but you may not like the result. It's pretty much trial and error, unless someone here knows which other manufacturers' objectives are most likely to be compatible with Leitz eyepieces.
Last edited by Dubious on Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Help Choosing between Laborlux K or Swift 380
Congratulations - glad everything works smoooothly :)InfiniteCosmos wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:08 pmHi!
I'm here to share the results of all the help you guys gave me.
Today i bought a microscope, the LaborLux K :D i'm happy with it. Everything is tight and working nice and smoothly. Diaphragm is perfect as well as the stage and the Spring-Loads. The only thing i personaly dont like is the lamp that heats allot. Tomorrow i'll Blow the dust off and clean the microscope.
Have a look at this booklet before you start to clean your microscope.
https://www.zeiss.com/content/dam/Micro ... -zeiss.pdf
Also have a look at this interactive tutorial on setting up Köhler
https://www.microscopyu.com/tutorials/kohler
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Re: Help Choosing between Laborlux K or Swift 380
Forgot to mention, if a phase telescope did not come with the microscope, it does not need to be from Leitz; one from other manufactures will work fine. (You will need to insert this in place of an eyepiece so that you can see the rings while adjusting the phase plates.)