Help with purchase of new scope and setup with DSLR

[securitypedant]

Hi

My 10 year old son is showing a lot of interest in microscopes and the world of the small. I want to purchase something entry level, that ideally I can attached to my digital camera.

I would like to get some advice from this forum. I have a budget of about 2-300 US dollars for both the scope and any adapter.

I was looking at the AmScope M150C, https://amscope.com/products/m150c.

My digital camera is a Sony A6300 that uses the Sony E mount. https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-a6300

The goal is to get him interested in biology and looking at the small things in life. I would happily sacrifice some quality to get higher levels of magnification.

Thanks in advance for anyone's replies.

Simon

[Phill Brown]

Hi and welcome.
I have found a 10 year old has a different attention span, 1000x oil and claims of 2000 are very unlikely to be useful.
A movable/adjustable stage would be an upgrade. Moving the slide smoothly by hand at 400x is not easy even with practice.
Sometimes sharing with a binocular view can be frustrating, the image through a single eyepiece can be brighter than when split into 2.
Monocular don't look as high tech but are more than equal, the only way to be convinced is to share a binocular, too much fiddling gets in the way of enjoying the subject.
Higher magnification is often empty with no gain in resolution but poor depth of field, much of the world of tiny is amazing below a total of 400x.
Taking pictures hadn't been interesting to my lad.
40x is great for living moving things.
Mobile phones take better pictures through the eyepiece starting out.
Trinocular with DSLR, dark field and phase, microscope collections are just a few months down when no one is keeping tabs on the cost.

[Dubious]

I second what Phill says about magnification. With a compound microscope, I do my viewing at 100-400x (mostly pond life), and for most of the live critters I view, 100x or 200x is more useful than 400x, given the difficulties of focusing at high magnification on three dimensional moving objects--often you can focus on only a slice at a time.

Instead of the microscope you linked, I would try to get one that has a condenser with adjustable iris diaphragm (sits under the specimen stage to focus the light) and an X-Y adjustable mechanical stage (makes positioning the specimen slide a lot easier). Unfortunately, that would double the cost of the microscope, even at the lower end. Have you considered, either with or instead of a compound microscope, getting a stereo microscope? As 20x or so, they can give spectacular views of insects, spiders and plants and may work better in interesting a kid initially.

Another suggestion, if it is possible where you live, is to take your son to a children's museum or similar where there are microscopes that he can try, to get a feel for what works best and interests him the most.

[Scarodactyl]

I recently got a nice American Optical monocular scope (my dad spotted it at a flea market and bought it for me) which needs a new home. It's a nice, solidly built student scope with good optics, mechanical stage and adjustabke condenser, it lights up and everything is moving smoothly. It has a plan 10x and a 45x achro, and really needs a 4x to fill out the 3 slot nosepiece. Hooking up the camera would be a bit involved but possible. It would also be cheaper than that amscope, enough that you could likely get a few parts for it on eBay and still end up ahead. I understand if you're only looking to buy new, I just got this baby in and would love to pass it on to someone just starting out.

[securitypedant]

Thanks for the replies so far. One thing I do want to do is capture images on my DSLR. Anyone have experience of fitting a E mount Sony camera to a monocular eyepiece?

How do you view live critters at such a magnification? Don't they run around all over?

I would try to get one that has a condenser with adjustable iris diaphragm (sits under the specimen stage to focus the light) and an X-Y adjustable mechanical stage (makes positioning the specimen slide a lot easier). Unfortunately, that would double the cost of the microscope, even at the lower end.

Do you have any examples of these sorts of scopes? I'm totally new to this world. I am happy to buy a used scope, I found these in my budget.

https://microscopecentral.com/collectio ... microscope
https://microscopecentral.com/collectio ... microscope

I recently got a nice American Optical monocular scope

Would love to know more. Can you be more specific about the model and features? Any pictures?

[securitypedant]

I also found a list of scopes on here that might be suitable. Again, i'm struggling to read the feature set that's important.

https://www.labx.com/microscope/page/1? ... rice=0,200

[Dubious]

Thanks for the replies so far. One thing I do want to do is capture images on my DSLR. Anyone have experience of fitting a E mount Sony camera to a monocular eyepiece?

How do you view live critters at such a magnification? Don't they run around all over?

I would try to get one that has a condenser with adjustable iris diaphragm (sits under the specimen stage to focus the light) and an X-Y adjustable mechanical stage (makes positioning the specimen slide a lot easier). Unfortunately, that would double the cost of the microscope, even at the lower end.

Do you have any examples of these sorts of scopes? I'm totally new to this world. I am happy to buy a used scope, I found these in my budget.

https://microscopecentral.com/collectio ... microscope
https://microscopecentral.com/collectio ... microscope

I recently got a nice American Optical monocular scope

Would love to know more. Can you be more specific about the model and features? Any pictures?

The Sony A6300 seems to be a mirrorless camera, not technically a DSLR, but that's actually good as it's lighter and doesn't have a mirror slapping up and down, so probably less vibration and easier to attach to the eyepiece tube without tipping the microscope over, etc. Hopefully, someone here knows of an adapter that would work. If you use the site's search feature on "Sony A6300" there are a few people using it here, but I suspect they are using it with a trinocular port.

Pond water critters do swim around, but they are constrained in a drop of water on a slide (with a slide cover on top), so it's possible to chase them about --that's where the X-Y mechanical stage is useful.

The two microscopes you linked do not have an adjustable condenser and mechanical stage; but here are some that do.
https://amscope.com/collections/compoun ... ducts/m220
https://amscope.com/collections/compoun ... ucts/b120c

Note that I know nothing about these two microscopes other than that they are cheap (maybe even cheaper on Ebay or Amazon), and have those two features. The one Scarodactyl mentioned is probably better in most respects.

[Scarodactyl]

I recently got a nice American Optical monocular scope

Would love to know more. Can you be more specific about the model and features? Any pictures?

I am not sure of the model but someone here will be. It's labelled AO Spencer, no obvious model name, and has infinity optics.
It has a monocular head with a 10x eyepiece (this head should be swappable for a binocular or trinocular one which aren't too insanely expensive on eBay). It needs a 4x objective (not bad, 20-30ish on eBay), but comes with a 10x and a 45x (3 slots in the nosepiece). The view it gives is really nice--I tried my diatom test slide on it and really liked what I could see, though I damaged my phone camera so I can't take good photos through the eyepiece to show you.
It has a full focusable condenser with an iris. It has a mechanical stage with x and y movement but does have a slightly primitive fixed slide holder vs a spring loaded one on a higher end scope. Everything moves smoothly and it seems to have been taken care of. And these were built like tanks, all metal and super hefty.
I am based in NC, and if you're interested you can have it for 28 dollars plus shipping.
I think it's a good starter scope. I'm not an AO expert but it looks like it should be upgradeable to some extent, and if you reached the limits of that it'd be time to upgrade and perhaps pass this one on to someone else.

[securitypedant]

I am based in NC, and if you're interested you can have it for 28 dollars plus shipping.

Yes! Would love to buy this from you. I’m in San Francisco, any idea what the shipping would be? Doesn’t need to be fast, use the slowest form of ground.

[PeteM]

That's a very usable scope. Excellent build quality and decent optics. Pretty easy to fit an eyepiece camera to it as well. And from one of this site's most knowledgeable and trusted members.

A ten year old might also be best served by a stereo microscope. Somewhat like lower power binoculars and a higher power telescope, you might find that a lower power stereo microscope gets used more often. For one thing, you can just grab a specimen rather than deal with preparing a specimen thing enough to deal with the decreasing depth of view at higher magnifications.

[apochronaut]

I am based in NC, and if you're interested you can have it for 28 dollars plus shipping.

Yes! Would love to buy this from you. I’m in San Francisco, any idea what the shipping would be? Doesn’t need to be fast, use the slowest form of ground.

That will be a good microscope for a 10 year old. Those AO microscopes are completely modular and can be built to various specifications depending on the accessories you attach to the basic stand or frame. That one has been set up as a student scope but by removing modules, such as the illuminator, nosepiece and viewing head and replacing them with different models of same and adding an objective or two it could easily be upgraded as your son grows into it. There were many thousands of them sold, in the upper 5 figures at least and to this day most accessories abound for them.......and they are cheap. Even phase contrast is cheap and excellent.
One easy way of keeping the monocular feature and fitting a camera is to watch out for a teaching head and another monocular head. The additional head is used as a photo tube. You should be able to land both for less than 50.00 plus shipping. With that microscope it is easy to set up a Sony Alpha camera to get a full capture of the microscope field. You use an identical eyepiece as the viewing eyepiece for a photo relay lens and a camera coupling that the eyepiece sits inside.

The illuminator that microscope has is the 10 watt student version. 110V. with a simple on off switch. They are one of those golfball sized bulbs with an E26 base. The illumination is adequate for 450X but maybe not great for photography and likely not great if split to a dedicated photo tube. There are the more professional 18 watt and 20 watt halogen illuminators easily available, which will improve all aspects of imaging. The 18 watt will need a transformer and the 20 watt has one integrated. The illuminator goes and comes by removing two screws only.

If you need info. about setting up your photo tube , I can send it to you. If you intend to use an afocal or even a relay lens system on the eyepiece tube, remember the camera can cause vibration, cantilevered out on that eyepiece tube. I would recommend doing afocal with the camera , tripod mounted.

[Dubious]

The AO is an excellent deal--a well-built, modular microscope at an unbeatable price. It may also leave enough in your budget to consider getting a stereo microscope as well.

[securitypedant]

What superb replies from everyone. Thank you so much. I'm in the progress of acquiring the AO and once I get it, i'll be figuring out what I need to do to learn how use it and how I can get my Sony A6300 attached.

[securitypedant]

One more quick question, i've never used a scope before, well outside of when I was at school and 15. (Now 46). Once the scope arrives, i'll do my research on how to correctly use it, but I need some subjects to look at. Any advice? Do I just buy some slides, go outside and find some plant or animal stuff and throw it on the slide? Or should I buy some pre-prepared slides to look at? I figure everything else I can easily sort out, but this one extra piece of information will help.

[Phill Brown]

Always lower the objective to near the cover slip,then focus by moving out while viewing through the eyepiece.
Spring loaded objectives can be useful to reduce the risk of breaking the cover slip.
There are usually budget ways to create dark field with patch stops, wish I'd been shown diatoms and radiolarians with dark field at school.
eBay is good for prepared diatom slides, reasonably priced come along often enough. Happy hunting.

[Adam Long]

I would recommend you buy a little box of 25 prepared slides to help you get the hang of things (~$30). Mine has plant, fungi and histology sections as well as a bee's mouthparts and leg. The bee mouthpart is not a perfect preparation, with a leg folded under the head, but I have spent many hours staring at it, the thing is a miracle of complexity. You will likely find at first it is much easier to get good results at higher magnifications with the properly prepared sections compared to your own samples.

Don't worry about 100x oil immersion objectives until you feel the 40x is limiting. That may be never.

Get a pack of blank slides and coverslips and keep a sample bottle in your pocket. Anywhere wet and green is good.

There are lots of places to find interesting samples but one of the most reliable for me has been spirogyra - the green cotton-wool like algae you find in ponds. The algae itself is beautiful, particularly in darkfield, and it usually contains a good variety of protists and rotifers. Damp moss is good for Gastrotichs and Tardigrades.

[DrPhoxinus]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274388801973?c ... gLoJvD_BwE

A used box of 25 slides on eBay $14

[DrPhoxinus]

The last one had shipping charges

https://www.ebay.com/itm/283259407837?_ ... %3A2334524

[dtsh]

One more quick question, i've never used a scope before, well outside of when I was at school and 15. (Now 46). Once the scope arrives, i'll do my research on how to correctly use it, but I need some subjects to look at. Any advice? Do I just buy some slides, go outside and find some plant or animal stuff and throw it on the slide? Or should I buy some pre-prepared slides to look at? I figure everything else I can easily sort out, but this one extra piece of information will help.

For slides, I'd encourage you to make your own. For water samples, a drop on the slide and a coverslip is all you need. For more permanent slides, PVA glue (Elmer's Clear Glue) works quite well alone and a little better when mixed with glycerin (recipes abound on the internet, search for "PVA glue mountant"). If you have mosquitoes around like most of us do, they can be very interesting specimens to look at with detail that will take many microscopes to their limits. The only downside to small insects is you'll quickly decide you need a lower power stereo microscope to help prepare them; thankfully, there are many very usable, but vintage stereo scopes around too.

A nice side-feature of the AO infinity scopes is that is is very hard to crush a slide and objective together and cause damage; since the objective just ends up resting on the slide with little force. It's still not a good idea to do it, but it does at least tend to save one from cringing when you hear "crunch!". As apochronaut stated, they're nice because there's just so many options and parts available; darkfield condensers with the funnel stops show up on eBay from time to time for around $50 too if you have any interest there.

[apochronaut]

Spring loaded objectives can be useful to reduce the risk of breaking the cover slip.

Except for one cat.# 1303 63X, offered for the 100 series in the 1980's, spring loaded objectives are not necessary on that microscope. It can only use AO or Reichert 34mm parfocal infinity corrected objectives.They must have an infinity symbol on them and be no longer than 34mm from the thread shoulder to the tip. None of those objectives made in the U.S.A. are spring loaded because all of the AO and Reichert infinity corrected microscopes use a nosepiece focusing system with a spring loaded nosepiece.
That same optical system was adopted for certain models of Austrian made Reichert microscopes that did not use a spring loaded nosepiece, so the Austrian versions are spring loaded but will work on the American microscopes. Very few would have made it across the pond. Sometimes you will see the occasional Austrian designed version of an AO objective, imported from Austrian production in order to fill a U.S. production shortfall. Those look spring loaded but in those cases, they did not install a spring but used a measured spacer instead. The 1303, 63X is the only one they did not do this with and the Austrian made objectives shipped over, were all spring loaded.

[Dubious]

If you haven't yet, check out Oliver's videos on specimen collection (particularly water life) and microscope use--"useful" links at top of forum list. There is also a "shop" with links to microscopy supplies on Amazon, and to books that he recommends.

While collecting water samples is easy, you can also buy protists and other specimens from Carolina.com. Browse the categories or use the search function to find.

https://www.carolina.com/living-organis ... d%3A100001

[tlansing]

I remember when I was 12 (now I am 63) and got my first microscope, the most exciting thing for me was to see things that moved around in a sample. I have never lost my love for seeing the wee beasties. I collected samples from any pond that had algae in it and saw the most amazing things. A turkey baster can be a very handy accessory to help you collect your samples. Don't get too much of the algae or it may die rather quickly. Also make sure to collect some of the mud; there are all kinds of interesting critters, especially amoebas and amoebas with shells (tests). I also made hay infustions by putting some hay in a jar with some water. Let it sit until there is a scum on the top and you can see lots of bacteria and ciliated protozoa. I hope your 10 year old enjoys exploring with your new (used) microscope!

[securitypedant]

The last one had shipping charges

https://www.ebay.com/itm/283259407837?_ ... %3A2334524

Ordered!! Thank so much.

[securitypedant]

If you need info. about setting up your photo tube , I can send it to you. If you intend to use an afocal or even a relay lens system on the eyepiece tube, remember the camera can cause vibration, cantilevered out on that eyepiece tube. I would recommend doing afocal with the camera , tripod mounted.

Thanks for all the info. Once I get the scope, I may ask you (and the forum) some questions to get familiar with it. I can’t wait!

[DrPhoxinus]

With respect to the prepared slides sets,
the 25 set has a number of plant sections which are interesting but not that exciting after a while.
There are some tissue slides. The cross section of rabbit testis is very interesting and a test of resolution at 450x
There are 50 and 100 slide sets.
Be sure to get a slide list to make sure what you are getting

Enjoy,

Gerard