AmScope or Radical microscope for mycology beginner?

[Mycogirl]

Hello everyone - does anyone have experience with AmScope or Radical microscopes, or views as to which is better? I'm a beginner looking for something I can use on a mycology course but also just to use for general interest and home stuff (pond water, blood, plant tissue etc). I need a compount scope with 500-1000 magnification, and I like the idea of the trinocular scopes and also the ability to use a darkfield filter. Both Radical and AmScope have models that offer all this for the £300-500 range, and Radical even has one that offers phase contrast in that price range. I love the idea of being able to play with that but I wonder if it is going to be any good at all or if it's just a gimmick. The cheapest AmScopes I can find that do phase contrast are many times that price. Thanks in advance for any thoughts, ideas, suggestions anyone has.

[apochronaut]

Both offer instruments with very similar features and one would be as good as the other in terms of performance. The difference is and why there is a price differential for a similarly featured instrument, is that Amscope is an importer/retailer and Radical is a manufacturer/importer/retailer. Both have access to the same microscope stands and components from China but Radical also manufactures some components and shares a common border with China, thus expensive air freight does not become a factor in Radical's cost structure and they have a manufacturing working relationship with some people in China. Radical appears to import mostly components from China, finishing the stands locally and adding in some cases some of their own parts upon assembly in India and as well making entire instruments themselves in their plant or one they cooperate with . This also goes the other way with India selling some components to Chinese factories for inclusion into a " Chinese " microscope. The DF oil condensers and kits with an iris equipped 100X objective commonly available from China and Amscope for instance are in fact made in India and available for 1/2 price or less if you buy from India. Amscope manufactures nithing and buys finished stands and accessories from suppliers in both countries , possibly even Radical, so their pricing structure has another layer of markup, plus they apply the original shipping in that price structure. Don't believe their sale prices by the way. Chinese brokers have a "suggested list price" which is about 3 times their wholesale price. In practice, nothing is ever sold for the suggested price except in certain circumstances by big name brands, such as Zeiss or Unitron but that is the price quoted with the big slash through it, by companies like Amscope. Their sale price is usually what the microscope or part should actually be sold for and almost allways can be bought cheaper from a Chinese or Indian company.
This is why I recommend by-passing importers such as Amscope and buy direct from suppliers in either India or China. Chinese factories or brokers will likely charge shipping but there may be a possibility of free shipping from India. You can save a bundle that way. Bestscope are very good to deal with out of China.

[Dubious]

I took a quick look, and Radical is now selling through Ebay in the US, with free shipping from India.

A trinocular phase system using sliders with a cheap camera thrown in is $499, with your choice of led or halogen:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/143148701465?h ... Swv0dcV99W

A phase turret system is $569:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/113665254092?e ... SwmE9cV9-M

This is at the low end, but quite impressive prices. An advantage of buying from Radical would be that if you needed parts or addons, the company would presumably know about them and if they were available. With Amscope, its people don't know much about parts, even when they are sold by Amscope.

[josmann]

Interesting! Almost cheap enough for me to consider picking one up - would love it if they'd offer the phase turret and objectives alone. I have a feeling they're the same kind that is compatible with many scopes of similar construction. I've always been real curious about how well an AmScope 490 phase contrast system works in practice. Haven't seen any example images and the price is too steep to simply buy out of curiosity. I have a feeling that they might not be a ton of fun to use. The idea of a turret condenser in the 490-style holder doesn't seem like it'd be very stable.

Mycogirl: if you just want something small and practical for your desk an Amscope B120 or similar Swift/Bresser are all very fine choices as are the trinocular versions of each. There is not a ton of variability in performance from 200 dollars up to 500 dollars if you buy new. Just make sure you get something with a bi/trinoc head, an XY stage, and a condenser. Darkfield is easily achieved for free on 10x objectives and below. Almost all these come with 4/10/40/100 objectives in the turret - ignore "maximum magnification" numbers, just look for those objectives.

If you want something a bit more upgradeable, the scope I'm currently recommending here in the US is this one: https://bolioptics.com/40x-1500x-led-bi ... -xy-stage/ It is less ergonomic and portable, but it has key traits (including low cost) that make it a good choice for folks who want to dip their toes into upgrades down the line. You may be able to find the same scope under a different branding - as apochronaut has detailed, all the scopes available from all the brands you're likely shopping come from China or India. Amscope sells it as the T400 and Radical may have it too. The base is very common and is compatible with Amscope's DF and phase contrast condensers (it is the same base from the popular T490).

[Dubious]

To answer the question as to whether the Radical phase contrast option would be any good or just a gimmick, I have no first-hand experience with Radical, but doubt very much it is a gimmick. The theory behind phase contrast may be impressive--it did win someone the Nobel--but the application is relatively simple and certainly within Radical's technical ability. Of course, whether phase contrast adds anything depends on the type of work you do. I'd say it adds a lot when working with protists and water critters; but I don't know enough about mycology to say whether it is beneficial there. A phase turret condenser is generally preferred over a condenser with a slot for a phase slider, but costs more. Best with any microscope purchase is if you have the option of returning it if it doesn't perform as expected.

[josmann]

I don't expect it to be a gimmick - I'm sure it works. I do wonder about the overall objective quality but I'm sure it's acceptable. More so, though, I wonder about the practicality for a hobbyist who is changing objectives and illumination setups at a higher clip than a clinician. I suspect that the turret condenser may not hold its position well when manipulated a fair amount. And of course the single annuli attachments would get old real quick!

Again, I don't know - there doesn't seem to be a lot of first-hand experience with them. And the Radicals definitely are competitively priced compared to what AmScope normally asks. Could be awesome! I'd love to know for sure!

[apochronaut]

Mycology is very demanding of a microscope, so it is hard to find a cheap one that is worthwile. One of the important demands in Mycology is spore identification. While, like many very small things, they can be seen at lower magnifications, in order to see the important required details, high N.A. and higher magnification is required. 60X .85 minimum but that would have to be a good 60X .85 : fully plan and well corrected, since the colour of the spores is one of the important identification details, although that can often be determined by doing a print. Hyphae are also important and difficult to image because of their delicacy.

All this really points towards getting a better second hand microscope . It will be hard to find a budget priced new scope that can do it. Phase will be important as well as high resolution DF.

[viktor j nilsson]

While I agree that mycology is one area where you really need a high NA oil objective, I don't think it's extremely demanding per se. Phase is convenient, but if you are okay with some basic staining, then pretty much any microscope with a 100x 1.25 oil objective and an abbe condenser should work well enough. Well, I guess that also means that you need at least half decent rigidity and a mechanical stage, but most should offer that. I just donated 12 basic Chinese "xsz-g" microscopes that I helped salvage from work to a bunch of amateur mycologists, and felt that they were perfectly acceptable for the purpose.

[apochronaut]

+ a stereo microscope.

[apochronaut]

There's a Watson 3 objective phase system pretty cheap in the U.K.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/353886369673 ... SwYLNh-TAL

Search Watson fluorite on ebay.uk as well, and a few fluorite objectives show up at excellent prices too. You will have to change phase objectives out to get bright or higher magnification dark field with acceptable resolution and contrast so for 300 you could have a very nice complete system.

[Mycogirl]

Thank you so much to everyone who replied to my newbie question! I am very sorry I was not around at the weekend so could not respond sooner.

You have all given me so much to think about. I've more or less decided against the AmScopes on the grounds of little support, and with Radical I've become a bit concerned about importing directly from India (through eBay or Amazon) as I have no idea how one would deal with any problems that might arise. I also realised after posting that one would probably need to add import duties and VAT to the Radical prices on eBay, which would be an extra 25%.

I therefore started looking at Brunel and GT Vision own-brand scopes - both linked to from the UK Mycological Society website (I am in the UK, sorry should have said that before). They're a step up in price from Radical, but they seem to be responsive companies and as far as I can tell with my limited knowledge offer good quality options with phase contrast kits I'd be able to buy in the future - something I would really like to have in the longer run for spore imaging. Currently I am thinking about the Brunel SP100 or SP150, which have plan objectives (SP100) or plan infinity objectives (SP150). That pushes the cost of the basic microscope up to around £800-1000 - quite a hike over what I had been considering! I have a feeling I might not be the first novice to find the bill putting on weight rather rapidly...

And then there's the stereo microscope... yes, I can see how wonderful it would be to have both. But that's going to have to wait for a bit I fear.

[Chas]

One possibilty to consider; there are monocular microscopes with inbuilt LED and battery lighting, so if it wasnt too heavy you might be able to take it with you, if you went somewhere.
I have a childrens microscope it weighs about 1 Kg but is very strong ..I can happily mount a dslr on the end of its eyepiece tube.
I am not suggesting a kiddies microscope for you obvs, but some of the lightweight diecast construction stuff is not as feeble as you might think.
Maybe talk to the folks at Brunel?

[Mycogirl]

Thank you, Chas. I had not been thinking about moving around with the microscope, just using it at home. But it is a good point; I guess it would be great to be able to identify things you found on site, so you knew whether to collect them or not. That's a whole new dimension to it and perhaps not something I'm ready for yet, but definitely worth thinking about. As is the solidity and strength of construction - again not something I'd really been focusing on, given all the other issues I've been trying to get my head around.

Thanks everyone for so much great advice.