neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

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woyjwjl
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neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#1 Post by woyjwjl » Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:48 pm

As in the picture, Neo Splan 10x is OK,

Neo Splan 50 NIC imaging is blurred (like 100x without oil),

After refueling (although I know this is dry), it can be imaged.

Excuse me, is this objective lens required to match DIC prism?
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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#2 Post by Scarodactyl » Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:08 pm

Sounda like the objective might be damaged.

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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#3 Post by woyjwjl » Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:18 pm

我用强光手电检查,未见任何分层....
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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#4 Post by Scarodactyl » Wed Jul 20, 2022 8:52 pm

If it was dropped it could have lens elements moved out of place.m, which might not be visible but could ruin the image.
This might be a dumb question, but your illuminator has an infinity symbol and f=180 on it, right? I am not that familiar with the lineup aside from the more elaborate and expensive BH2-UMA illuminator. Even if it does have infinity on it you should double check that there is a lens in there.

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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#5 Post by apochronaut » Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:26 pm

Isn't that a 210mm objective, in behind there?

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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#6 Post by woyjwjl » Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:37 am

Scarodactyl wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 8:52 pm
If it was dropped it could have lens elements moved out of place.m, which might not be visible but could ruin the image.
This might be a dumb question, but your illuminator has an infinity symbol and f=180 on it, right? I am not that familiar with the lineup aside from the more elaborate and expensive BH2-UMA illuminator. Even if it does have infinity on it you should double check that there is a lens in there.
With regard to the fall and displacement, I will check (it is hard to see a bump on the outside).

As for the F=180, I can use BH2-RLA,Neo Plan 10 for imaging.

Thank you for your reply.
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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#7 Post by woyjwjl » Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:31 am

apochronaut wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:26 pm
Isn't that a 210mm objective, in behind there?
To be honest, I have been following DIC in the Chinese market for almost a year now and have not found any so-called Chinese brand DIC microscopes ....

Related papers show that the making of prisms is a threshold and seems to be a matter of process rather than theory .....

As for price, as Tom says, it is a large number of amateurs most seeking a small number of second hand sources .....

Research institutions prefer to use confocal or electron scanning techniques (for which price is not the first consideration) rather than old DIC ....
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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#8 Post by apochronaut » Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:36 am

Bestscope BS 2081 has DIC. Catchbest Vision Technology is the company.

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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#9 Post by woyjwjl » Thu Jul 21, 2022 2:26 am

apochronaut wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:36 am
Bestscope BS 2081 has DIC. Catchbest Vision Technology is the company.
Sorry, I pasted in the wrong place ....

You said 210mm, guess you know more than I do ....

I just used(Using the 25mm-26mm adapter ring) both (10X 20X) objectives on the RLA and had no problems with the imaging (including the dark field).

The only confusing thing is that the 20X has a longer working distance than the 10X...

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=14810
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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#10 Post by Scarodactyl » Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:08 am

It could be damage to tbe objective, or something might be wrong with the setup. Changes in tube length are better tolerated by low magnification objectives than high magnification objectives. That illuminator should be fine but if the lens has been removed you would get similar symptoms. I have run into at least one systrm where such a lens had been removed which made it inoperable for normal usage.

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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#11 Post by woyjwjl » Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:19 am

Scarodactyl wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:08 am
It could be damage to tbe objective, or something might be wrong with the setup. Changes in tube length are better tolerated by low magnification objectives than high magnification objectives. That illuminator should be fine but if the lens has been removed you would get similar symptoms. I have run into at least one systrm where such a lens had been removed which made it inoperable for normal usage.
Thank you for the information

Lenses do exist ....

Maybe I have the wrong lens mount? Maybe I should buy another 40X objective lens to judge ....
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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#12 Post by Ranzilch » Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:55 pm

It has nothing to do with the DIC prism, it supposed to be focused w/ or w/o the prism if it's a good one.
Most likely this Neo SPlan 50 NIC objective is damaged.

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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#13 Post by apochronaut » Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:04 pm

woyjwjl wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 2:26 am
apochronaut wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:36 am
Bestscope BS 2081 has DIC. Catchbest Vision Technology is the company.
Sorry, I pasted in the wrong place ....

You said 210mm, guess you know more than I do ....
I meant the black and silver objective with the yellow ring. Is that not a fixed tube Olympus epi objective?

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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#14 Post by Ranzilch » Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:45 am

This one looks like a Neo 20x objective, so yes, tube length is 210mm.

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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#15 Post by woyjwjl » Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:50 am

apochronaut wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:04 pm

I meant the black and silver objective with the yellow ring. Is that not a fixed tube Olympus epi objective?
Yes, I just know it can image on RLA (including 40X), not sure if by 210mm you mean the optical barrel length?
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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#16 Post by LouiseScot » Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:32 am

You mention 'imaging but I can't see a camera anywhere? If you mean just normal viewing it could be that it needs a matching eyepiece for best results?

Louise
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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#17 Post by woyjwjl » Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:02 am

LouiseScot wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:32 am
You mention 'imaging but I can't see a camera anywhere? If you mean just normal viewing it could be that it needs a matching eyepiece for best results?

Louise
You got it wrong, the microscope above is not mine, it's just used to show the special objective lens asked by apochronaut.

None of this is what I need to consult.

Normal neo 40X
1.jpg
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Malfunctioning neo 50 nic
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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#18 Post by LouiseScot » Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:06 am

woyjwjl wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:02 am
LouiseScot wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:32 am
You mention 'imaging but I can't see a camera anywhere? If you mean just normal viewing it could be that it needs a matching eyepiece for best results?

Louise
You got it wrong, the microscope above is not mine, it's just used to show the special objective lens asked by apochronaut.

None of this is what I need to consult.

Normal neo 40X
1.jpg
Malfunctioning neo 50 nic
2.jpg
OK, sorry - was just trying to help
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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#19 Post by apochronaut » Sun Aug 07, 2022 3:24 pm

I am confused by why you would show a picture of a different microscope other than the one you are having problems with? If it was to show a picture of the objective that the post is about : that is sn infinity corrected objective mounted on a 210mm microscope stand. That was my point above. It won't work properly.

in your picture comparison, you are comparing a 40X Neo 210mm fixed tube objective to a 50X Neo nic infinity tube objective, correct? If they are both being used in a 210mm microscope stand, that is the root of your problem. When an infinity corrected objective is used in a fixed tube stand, the eyepiece becomes the telan/tube lens, and not a good one. There is spherical aberration resulting in a fuzzy image with lousy contrast in any such circumstances I have seen.

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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#20 Post by LouiseScot » Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:24 pm

The neo s-plan 50x in the very first photo is an infinity objective, no coverglass, for use in an Olympus compatible infinity microscope
so needs a tube/telan lens. The 'f=180' is the tube lens focal length (or reference focal length) which is different from a finite system mechanical tube length.

https://www.olympus-lifescience.com/en/ ... nityintro/

∞ = infinity symbol on objective

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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#21 Post by apochronaut » Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:28 pm

Exactly. He is trying to use it in a 210mm tube lemgth microscope it seems.

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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#22 Post by Scarodactyl » Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:29 pm

We've already confirmed he has one of the illuminators with an included tube lens and the lenses are intact. At least it seems to be the case(??)
That image is really rough, though the neo 40x doesn't look quite as good as I'd expect either to be honest.

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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#23 Post by apochronaut » Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:57 pm

I see he has the RLA illuminator and I assume that is the one disassembled on a bench, although there is already at least one picture of a microscope that is not part of his project. The one with the RLA illuminator and the 4 Olympus 210mm shorty objectives is then that same microscope? Is the RLA f. 180mm illuminator useful with 210mm objectives?

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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#24 Post by LouiseScot » Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:57 pm

It would be useful if @woyjwjl could explicitly list exactly what he does actually have in terms of microscope and objectives - would add some clarity :)

Louise
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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#25 Post by woyjwjl » Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:09 am

apochronaut wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 3:24 pm
I am confused by why you would show a picture of a different microscope other than the one you are having problems with? If it was to show a picture of the objective that the post is about : that is sn infinity corrected objective mounted on a 210mm microscope stand. That was my point above. It won't work properly.

in your picture comparison, you are comparing a 40X Neo 210mm fixed tube objective to a 50X Neo nic infinity tube objective, correct? If they are both being used in a 210mm microscope stand, that is the root of your problem. When an infinity corrected objective is used in a fixed tube stand, the eyepiece becomes the telan/tube lens, and not a good one. There is spherical aberration resulting in a fuzzy image with lousy contrast in any such circumstances I have seen.
1. Is this objective lens 210mm? This is what I mean by "you know more than I do".
1.jpg
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2.jpg
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2. I mixed this series of objective lenses with the FMur180 objective lens (through the RLA attachment), and it worked well (except for this 50 nic).
neo.jpg
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3. The purpose of showing the "different microscope" picture is to show the original matching microscope of this series of objective lenses.
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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#26 Post by woyjwjl » Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:24 am

LouiseScot wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:57 pm
It would be useful if @woyjwjl could explicitly list exactly what he does actually have in terms of microscope and objectives - would add some clarity :)

Louise
Thank you for your kindness.

I actually posted a link on it.
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=14810
IMG_20220311_192332.jpg
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This is my BH2 BHS,RLA accessory. It uses DIY LED lighting.

Therefore, I know the difference between infinity and finiteness.

I removed the fault lens and dealt with the layering problem, but the problem was not solved and continued to ask for help.

1. I used mirror oil instead (reversible). It was glued and fruitless, indicating that it was not caused by fogging in the glue layer.
115635incdeurzodk7ddnu.jpg
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2. Is there any recommendation for "special glue" for glued composite lenses? Thank you.
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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#27 Post by LouiseScot » Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:46 am

woyjwjl wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:24 am
LouiseScot wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:57 pm
It would be useful if @woyjwjl could explicitly list exactly what he does actually have in terms of microscope and objectives - would add some clarity :)

Louise
Thank you for your kindness.

I actually posted a link on it.
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=14810
I can't see a written list but it looks to me that you are trying to mix finite and infinite optics? The non 50x objectives appear to be finite lenses so that suggests you are trying to use an infinity lens in a finite system.

Louise
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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#28 Post by apochronaut » Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:16 pm

woyjwjl wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:09 am
apochronaut wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 3:24 pm
I am confused by why you would show a picture of a different microscope other than the one you are having problems with? If it was to show a picture of the objective that the post is about : that is sn infinity corrected objective mounted on a 210mm microscope stand. That was my point above. It won't work properly.

in your picture comparison, you are comparing a 40X Neo 210mm fixed tube objective to a 50X Neo nic infinity tube objective, correct? If they are both being used in a 210mm microscope stand, that is the root of your problem. When an infinity corrected objective is used in a fixed tube stand, the eyepiece becomes the telan/tube lens, and not a good one. There is spherical aberration resulting in a fuzzy image with lousy contrast in any such circumstances I have seen.
1. Is this objective lens 210mm? This is what I mean by "you know more than I do".
1.jpg2.jpg
2. I mixed this series of objective lenses with the FMur180 objective lens (through the RLA attachment), and it worked well (except for this 50 nic).

neo.jpg
3. The purpose of showing the "different microscope" picture is to show the original matching microscope of this series of objective lenses.
It seems to me you have a couple of hurdles to overcome.
First, objectives that are infinity corrected will be marked infinity corrected.That became a defacto standard after AO started making infinity corrected microscopes in the early 60's, in order to separate their infiinity corrected objectives from the earlier 160mm objectives. As each manufacturer followed suit and converted their systems over from finite to infinity, the ∞ symbol was placed on optics that were specific to infinity correction. Thus it is on the NIC 50 objective and the RLA illuminator.
The black and silver objectives you have are not infinity corrected otherwise they would be marked with the symbol ∞. You are using them through an infinity corrected RLA. The correct RLA is grey and black and does not have f = 180mm and ∞ on it. That is probably why the image taken through the Neo 40X objective looks to be affected by spherical aberration.

As far as why the NIC 50X objective also produces a poor image, even when used with the correct infinity corrected RLA ? Maybe the objective is fsulty, that is always possible but it appears that you have been doing some optical work in the RLA itself? That lens you show in the picture above doesn't look particularly good. Make sure the lenses in the RLA are all perfect.

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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#29 Post by woyjwjl » Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:49 am

apochronaut wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:16 pm
It seems to me you have a couple of hurdles to overcome.
Thank you and Louise for your patient reply.

I'll distill the questions for efficiency

1. Are these tube\ telan lens,Red or green? If so, I will disassemble and check again.
1.png
1.png (149.8 KiB) Viewed 3317 times
http://www.alanwood.net/downloads/olymp ... -tubes.pdf

2, I have heard that the lens set is glued together with UV curing glue, I would like to know the exact trade name.
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Re: neo splan 50 nic Unable to image

#30 Post by viktor j nilsson » Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:43 am

Check out Norland optical adhesives.

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