Looking for camera for Swift SW380B

[jackieone]

I've viewed Oliver's video on the Summit 3.1MP digital microscope camera. It looks fine. It's not on Amazon, unfortunately.

I was discussing cameras with an online pal who praises cameras with Sony IMX sensors. These seem to be quite a bit more expensive than I'm comfortable with.

I'm really looking for a microscope camera that meshes with the SW380B, (fits into eyepiece tube) but is not more powerful than the optics of the microscope can handle. Most reviews of Swift cameras are not enthusiastic and there are not a lot of these cameras on Amazon (free returns, just in case...)

I've tried the phone adapter Oliver recommended, but with an iPhone 14 Pro, it wasn't working well at all.

So,
1) any other camera suggestions?

2) any other phone to microscope eyepiece adapter suggestions for iPhone 14 Pro or earlier models?

3) any suggestions where to purchase older phones (not necessarily iPhones I guess but that airdrop function is so excellent)

Just throwing this out there, in case anyone has any suggestions. Oh, connecting to Windows laptop is fine.

Thanks in advance, and I appreciate all your comments.

[blekenbleu]

I've viewed Oliver's video on the Summit 3.1MP digital microscope camera. It looks fine. It's not on Amazon, unfortunately.

1) are you interested in video? USB 2 is not good enough for video.

I was discussing cameras with an online pal who praises cameras with Sony IMX sensors. These seem to be quite a bit more expensive than I'm comfortable with.

Optics are at least as important as sensor.

I'm really looking for a microscope camera that meshes with the SW380B, (fits into eyepiece tube) but is not more powerful than the optics of the microscope can handle. Most reviews of Swift cameras are not enthusiastic and there are not a lot of these cameras on Amazon (free returns, just in case...)

I will disagree about more than 5 megapixels being wasted.
First, only 1/4 of pixels contain red or blue information.
Second, correctly downscaling from higher resolution JPG (e.g. from smartphone)
can improve image quality by reducing noise, and with appropriate filter, correct for lens blur.

Do you expect to only use the camera, or will you be often switching back to eyepiece?
If switching often and mostly still, then perhaps https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08L4PSCD5

I've tried the phone adapter Oliver recommended, but with an iPhone 14 Pro, it wasn't working well at all.

I use the Celestron – NexYZ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D7V3B8M?th=1 with iPhone SE, but
- it is really designed for larger eyepieces
- it needs readjusting with each replacement

So,
1) any other camera suggestions?

First, if imaging will be a regular part of your microscopy with video of live subjects,
then a trinocular microscope or camera with HDMI output for live view display is wanted.

2) any other phone to microscope eyepiece adapter suggestions for iPhone 14 Pro or earlier models?

I would try this, fine adjustments are important IMO: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CCJNSXLG

3) any suggestions where to purchase older phones (not necessarily iPhones I guess but that airdrop function is so excellent)

I got my used iPhone SE from some bulk ebay seller with good rating: https://www.ebay.com/itm/384354917815?var=652525752536
If no need to use as a cellular phone, then perhaps consider some phone locked to a carrier from an individual seller.

Also get a Bluetooth remote shutter release, e.g. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084VTFS4X

[jackieone]

Much thanks for your suggestions, and especially the links. Most helpful!

I had already looked at the Hayear 5mp camera, I’m going to try it out and see if it’s as good as its reviews.

I’m holding off for a while on the adapter/iPhone combo, but I’ve marked the links for future use.

Yes, video is quite appealing to me.

You mentioned USB-2 is perhaps too slow for decent video. I’ve looked at some of the USB-3 cameras, but I would be lying if I purported to say I understood all the technical bits that differentiate these by the diversity in prices.

Perhaps you could share some links of USB-3 cameras which would yield better results than a USB-2 camera, but at a minimal cost?

Even though I would not be plugged into an HDMI screen, but rather a Windows laptop, would using an HDMI camera make that much of a difference?

Also, in the interest of saving money, would you possibly suggest buying a camera from China via AliExpress? Or is that a bad idea?

And, lastly, what are the important details I should be looking at to compare cameras? I see sensor size is mentioned, and pixel size, pixels shown in microns, but even with all my reading I still can’t pick out the key points to be comparing vs. the prices.

Sorry for being so long winded in this post, but the learning curve is steep. I’m doing my best, but your input is valuable.

Much thanks, again.

[jackieone]

Oh, to clarify: this is the typical information posted by sellers about their microscope cameras, which is where I could use some guidance picking out the 3-4 important details to compare among several different camera offerings.

HAYEAR USB3.0 Digital Microscope Camera 8 Mega Pixels USB Live Video Camera with Calibration Support Windows Mac HY-900B https://a.co/d/hrL41Ev

Description
Model: HY-900B USB3.0 Color CMOS USB camera, plug and play
Sensor: 1/2.5" Color CMOS IMX317
Sensor size: 8.365mm(H)x6.615mm (V)
Pixel size: 1.62μm(H) x1.62μm(V)
Spectral response: 400nm~700nm
Resolution: 3840x2160;2560x1440;1920x1080
Image format: MJPEG / YUV422
Video resolution: 3840x2160 @30fps; 2560x1440 @30fps; 1920x1080 @30fps;1280x720 @30fps; 1024x576 @30fps; 640x480 @30fps; 640x360 @30fps;
Dynamic Range: dB (Linear)-dB (HDR)White Balance: Auto/ Manual
Image output: USB3.0, 5Gbit/s
Functions: Exposure/ Gama/ Color/Gain/Contrast/ Brightness
Support for drive free protocols: USB Video Class (UVC)
System support: WinXP/Win7/Win10/win11 ; Linux / Android (compatible UVC), MAC-OS X10.4.8 or latest (compatible UVC)
Application: Industrial vision, visual inspection, microscopes, astronomical telescopes, intelligent terminal devices, facial recognition, advertising machines, dish recognition, intelligent sales cameras, electronic weighing recognition, USB raspberry pie camera, scanning camera,etc..

[MichaelG.]

I have no personal experience of the HAYEAR cameras, but that specification is remarkable both for its resolution and frame-rate. … both very impressive.

One thing I would mention though is the chip size
Do the maths and you will see that the active area is significantly smaller than the physical size of the chip … SONY states a 16:9 frame with a diagonal of 7.2mm

This is what you will be imaging, and the optics will need to suit that.

MichaelG.
.

Basic product information from SONY
https://www.sony-semicon.com/files/62/p ... _Flyer.pdf

[Chas]

If you would like to explore using your mobile phone a bit further there are a couple of things to be aware of:

A] Over time the eyepoint of eyepieces has got higher which can mean that the basic camera phone clamps can sit in the wrong place.
B] Some mobile phones dont let the user manually set the camera's focus distance, easily.

These two things can tangle together in a really horrible way
( and to make things more distressing a phone might switch its lenses if it is zoomed in a bit too much ).

To nail down the focussing issue; if you get a standard/old fashioned/ low eyepoint cheap eyepiece , eg:

Standard 10x eyepiece.jpg (22.57 KiB) Viewed 8464 times

You should then be able to use your bracket and phone quite happily and find a way to master setting of the focus of your phone (I cant quite tell, but it might mean a special camera App for an Iphone ).


Here are some photographs of eyepoints taken by Peter Evennet ~25 years ago:

Peter Evennet .jpg (66.32 KiB) Viewed 8464 times

If you can get the focusing and zooming to work comfortably with this eyepiece, you are in a position to look at altering the bracket (for the Swift's eyepiece) :

You need to get the phone's lens to around the eyepiece's eyepoint (I dont have a swift380 but I do have a few high eyepoint eyepieces) .
A basic microscope phone bracket comes apart if you unscrew the adjusting wingnut ... the threading is the normal 1/4 inch camera thread.
You can buy cheap camera tripod adapters/spacers that will allow you seperate the microscope clamp from the camera clamp and thus get the phone in a more correct position.
Like this:

phone adapter with a spacer.jpg (68.05 KiB) Viewed 8451 times

I am pretty sure that this should 'get you there' but I cant guarantee it.

[Hobbyst46]

Oh, to clarify: this is the typical information posted by sellers about their microscope cameras, which is where I could use some guidance picking out the 3-4 important details to compare among several different camera offerings.

HAYEAR USB3.0 Digital Microscope Camera 8 Mega Pixels USB Live Video Camera...

...System support: WinXP/Win7/Win10/win11 ; Linux / Android (compatible UVC), MAC-OS X10.4.8 or latest (compatible UVC)
Application: Industrial vision, visual inspection, microscopes, astronomical telescopes, intelligent terminal devices, facial recognition, advertising machines, dish recognition, intelligent sales cameras, electronic weighing recognition, USB raspberry pie camera, scanning camera,etc..

My experience with a USB 2 Hayear camera was not positive. One problem was that setting the photo parameters (exposure time etc) was not possible in USB. Only In HDMI. On the other hand, USB worked better for stills, but I could not change the settings in that mode.

So if considering the camera (even if USB 3) I would suggest:
1. Verify that the optics fit - including which auxiliary lens is needed (0.5X or 0.35X or other).
2. Check out in detail the functionality of the bundled control software. Is the setup fully functional in the mode you want to use. Does it support tethering to a PC. Does it support a memory card. etc etc. Because these features are probably a part of the hardware and cannot be later modified.

[jackieone]

@MichaelG: I understand some of what you're saying, but what numbers do I multiply to find out the active area vs the physical chip size?

If Sensor size: 8.365mm(H)x6.615mm (V), what do I need to look at to compute active area?

I'm a bit lost here...

But thank you for your feedback! I'm learning a lot today!

[jackieone]

@Chas Wow! That's a LOT of information, and the workaround is fabulous! I've printed this information for future reference, because it is so detailed.

Much thanks for the details, and the pix to aid in the explanation.

[jackieone]

@Hobbyst46 Thanks for your reply. From your insight, and other review of various cameras, it seems the software is one of the biggest drawbacks to many cameras.

I'm going to just have to use it, try to see what works or does not, or if any workarounds.

BTW, I'm wondering if any other software can be used with these cameras, instead of the software included on the disk they usually send. Several reviews of various cameras state that alternate software was used, making the product better, but I don't know what they are referring to...

Another complaint was that software was "old" (how old? No clue.) and that was interfering with the basically fine camera. I don't know anything about this, but if you have any thoughts to share, I'm all ears.

Again, much thanks!

[Topcode]

Personally, I use touptek microscope cameras. In their E3ISPM lineup(designed for a trinocular, but they have an eyepiece camera lineup as well, this is just the one i use) which is usb 3.0, they have cameras up to 1.4" (23mm diagonal) but personally ive used 1" and 1/1.2" ones. The software, toupview, is honestly pretty good and easy to use. You can change compression settings, or save lossless. It has auto or manual white balance and exposure. It allows you to change binning to get higher FPS, you can set roi for higher fps, you can effectively control every part of the camera however you want to.

My experience with a USB 2 Hayear camera was not positive. One problem was that setting the photo parameters (exposure time etc) was not possible in USB. Only In HDMI. On the other hand, USB worked better for stills, but I could not change the settings in that mode.
2. Check out in detail the functionality of the bundled control software. Is the setup fully functional in the mode you want to use. Does it support tethering to a PC. Does it support a memory card. etc etc. Because these features are probably a part of the hardware and cannot be later modified.

No issues with controlling my touptek cams via usb, on video, photo, whatever. No sd card, so you do need a pc to use it, which is one downside.

[MichaelG.]

@MichaelG: I understand some of what you're saying, but what numbers do I multiply to find out the active area vs the physical chip size?

If Sensor size: 8.365mm(H)x6.615mm (V), what do I need to look at to compute active area?

I'm a bit lost here...

But thank you for your feedback! I'm learning a lot today!

The pixels have a declared size of 1.62 microns square … Multiply the pixel count in each axis by 1.62 and you get smaller numbers than the physical size of the chip … This is only to be expected, and there is nothing fundamentally wrong.
I was just warning that HAYEAR is conveniently quoting the larger dimensions.

MichaelG.
.
3840 x 1.62 = 6220.8 = 6.2208mm not 8.365mm
2160 x 1.62 = 3499.2 = 3.4992mm not 6.615mm

[jackieone]

@MichaelG Well, thanks for filling in that knowledge gap! WoW!

I just realized, that when you looked at the specifications I posted earlier, you were positive about the resolution and frame rate.

Looking at the resolution range (Resolution: 3840x2160;2560x1440;1920x1080) I see it is written in three sets. Which is most important, and why three groupings?

Looking at the video resolution ranges (Video resolution: 3840x2160 @30fps; 2560x1440 @30fps; 1920x1080 @30fps;1280x720 @30fps; 1024x576 @30fps; 640x480 @30fps; 640x360 @30fps) I see that the frame rate range given as 30fps for each of the ranges. I am guessing that is acceptable for a microscopy hobbyist, correct? But here, why 7 groupings of information? What is this based on?

So when you personally looked at the specifications, you
1) first looked at resolution,
2) then frame rate,
but what other specs were important to look at, to be able to make an educated guess about the product?

You mentioned the need for multiplying the stated resolution times the pixel size to give the correct dimensions, so are those two other specs I should be looking at - and doing the math on them.

Is there anything else that would be critical to look at when comparing across several different product specs?

Also, how do I determine what are the minimum dimensions for resolution that a hobbyist should be good with, for example, is 6.2208 mm x 3.4992mm good for resolution (even though it is not what the seller is promoting)?
Or is there a higher (or lower) minimum number I should be shooting for when I do the math on the specs?

I finally feel that I'm getting into that area I am deficient in, to be able to make a determination as to the QUALITY of the product I want to purchase, vs what my real NEEDS are for my hobby. Of course, if I were working in a lab, researching or whatever, the minimum needs for a microscope camera would be quite different.

Again, much thanks !!

[MichaelG.]

Sorry, I will have to keep this brief for now, and hope that others in different time-zones will fill-in some of the gaps

The different frame sizes are available for convenience … depending on how you wish to view or record the imagery,
… What is not disclosed, is whether the smaller sizes are simply ‘cropped’ or whether any of them use ‘bins’ of pixels [a block of four can sometimes be read as a single big one]

I suppose my biggest concern would be that the output is MJPEG which is a ‘lossy’ compressed format … probably fine for viewing, but perhaps not so good fo any analytical work.

I have to say, though, that if the actual results are to the standard you want … it looks like a bargain-buy at that price.
… either get a look at one, or buy from someone who will let you return it if not up to expectations.

MichaelG.

[jackieone]

@Topcode - much thanks for your input. I have previously seen reference to the Toupview software, but never discussed it with anyone using it.

I went to the Toupview website and they have downloads for their Toupview Light software.

Would you know if this is a universal microscope camera software product, or does it only work for ToupView cameras?

I found an article in microbehunter magazine reviewing the Toupcam S3CMOS 05000KPA. It looks fine, but further checking shows it is unfortunately out of my price range for now. However, that software...that is very interesting if it works with other brands of microscope cameras.

Again, thank you for your response. I'm learning so much!

[jackieone]

@MichaelG - Again, much thanks! I now understand so much more about this topic than I did 6 hours ago.

OK, I'm getting a good feeling about this, and yes, it's on Amazon. I'll let you know how it works out.
Have a good evening.

[J_WISC]

Regarding your iPhone …

I have an iPhone 13. Two problems were (1) you cannot turn off the Lidar sensor (used for focusing at night) and (2) the software struggles to choose a lens once the phone is close to the eyepiece.

It is important to cover the Lidar sensor with a piece of black material so it stops trying to find something to focus on.

Next, switch to portrait mode. This tells the software to use one specific lens. You have to check which one by, say, systematically covering each with your finger tip. But once you identify it, that’s the one to align with the eyepiece.

I’ve tried two specific phone holders so far.

https://www.celestron.com/products/nexg ... ne-adapter

Definitely universal, but too complicated and too heavy to meet my needs. It works. But the iPhone is already relatively heavy. The clamping mechanism doesn’t firmly hold on to the eyepiece and the phone/holder tip so the camera no longer points directly down the eyepiece tube. I started with this one because I wanted to photograph through larger dissecting scope eyepieces. It was a mistake.


https://www.etsy.com/listing/1116730778 ... pe-adapter

This one is light weight. And I like it much more so far. It has a better 5-point clamp, though I wish the clamping parts were a bit taller to better hold the eyepiece. There is a cup that goes AROUND the eyepiece, excluding light. A large advantage I didn’t anticipate is that the phone sits on top of the plastic cup and there is a small hole for the camera. This means there is ZERO chance of the camera lens scraping against the ocular lens as you adjust the position, a problem I encountered with the first one. The phone still tips a little, but I find it easier to address.

That’s my mini review. Either would work for the right person. I would not reject one or the other based solely on my experience.

[Topcode]

@Topcode - much thanks for your input. I have previously seen reference to the Toupview software, but never discussed it with anyone using it.

I went to the Toupview website and they have downloads for their Toupview Light software.

Would you know if this is a universal microscope camera software product, or does it only work for ToupView cameras?

I found an article in microbehunter magazine reviewing the Toupcam S3CMOS 05000KPA. It looks fine, but further checking shows it is unfortunately out of my price range for now. However, that software...that is very interesting if it works with other brands of microscope cameras.

I dont know if it is compatible with other brands, I would assume that it probably is not, however since the software is available free, someone who has a different camera could try it out.

[MichaelG.]

.

Regarding software compatibility …
This line from the previously posted spec. for the camera is [if it is entirely true] very useful:

Support for drive free protocols: USB Video Class (UVC)

MichaelG.

[jackieone]

@J_WISC - really appreciate the details of your experiences with those two phone holders. If I need to go that route, I'll check them out.

I wouldn't have thought of blocking the LIDAR camera sensor on the iPhone. That was one of the biggest hangups when I tried a different phone holder, I couldn't get the right camera to focus down the tube. It was so frustrating, I gave up. Plus, the few times I did get it to work, it was not impressive at all.

I found after a bit that I didn't like looking at the small camera screen to view the action. But it's still a great workaround if I cannot locate a decent microscope camera in the near future.

Much thanks for taking the time with your review. Have a great day!

[jackieone]

@Topcode - good point about the Toupview. I haven't anything to lose (except the time I spend trying to make it work!) and if the software which comes with my camera is substandard, I'll give it a try.

Much thanks!

[jackieone]

@MichaelG - Well, I didn't notice that, or if I did, it didn't register with me.

I'm not quite sure what the "USB Video Class (UVC)" means. I looked it up, but...I'm not sure how it works, or what it does. I get that there are two types of cameras, sensor cameras being one of these, and having this UVC on the laptop will enable the use of either type of camera. What that means to me, as far as my set up, I'm not clear.

So!

Again, thanks for taking the time to point out something important in the specs. I'll be checking for that as I go through the various seller's "blurbs" LOL!

[MichaelG.]

.

Bedtime reading:

https://www.e-consystems.com/blog/camer ... c-cameras/
MichaelG.

[jackieone]

@MichaelG - that was a great link! I'm getting it now!

Thanks!

[GerryR]

@Topcode - good point about the Toupview. I haven't anything to lose (except the time I spend trying to make it work!) and if the software which comes with my camera is substandard, I'll give it a try.

Much thanks!

Toupview and "Amscope" software are one and the same. The Amscope cameras come with this software and are reasonably good cameras. I had one on a stereo microscope for years. It was only a 1.2Mp camera but suited my needs at the time. I fairly recently made an adapter tube to be able to use the camera on my trinocular 'scope; works well there as well, all be it with the lower resolution. You have an Amscope microscope. Why not try their camera and software too!

Not too bright today-Swift microscope! Sorry for not being more careful in my reading. But the Amscope camera/software works on that too.

[Topcode]

@Topcode - good point about the Toupview. I haven't anything to lose (except the time I spend trying to make it work!) and if the software which comes with my camera is substandard, I'll give it a try.

Much thanks!

Toupview and "Amscope" software are one and the same. The Amscope cameras come with this software and are reasonably good cameras. I had one on a stereo microscope for years. It was only a 1.2Mp camera but suited my needs at the time. I fairly recently made an adapter tube to be able to use the camera on my trinocular 'scope; works well there as well, all be it with the lower resolution. You have an Amscope microscope. Why not try their camera and software?

a large portion of the amscope cameras are actually just touptek cameras but with a price increase added on, and there is no benefit to buying them other than branding.

[jackieone]

@GerryR - It's funny how all these brands are so interrelated...Thanks for the information. I've not installed the software which comes with the camera yet, so I'll try getting/using the Toupview later.

Have a great day!

[jackieone]

@Topcode - It's mind-numbing trying to keep track of what's what in the microscope camera world. Thanks for this information, I wouldn't have known the difference. LOL!

[jackieone]

So, it turns out that the Hayear "software" is just measuring software available if one needs it (which I do not.)

The camera runs quite nicely with either Mac, via Photo Booth or Windows via Windows Camera.

I had it attached to the laptop, and used the Windows controls to take video and photos, and I was able to adjust contrast, color, sharpness, etc. in the Windows Camera app. No issues, and I was happy with the product.

Basically a plug-and-play item, and since I can't tell the difference between a "good" camera and a "better" one at this point, I'm happy with the resulting photos/videos. It comes with two adapters to fit different sized eyepiece tubes or a Trinocular tube, there are no adjustments or even an on/off switch on the camera itself, just plug it into an outlet, and then into the USB 2 port of the laptop or Mac, and open the camera or PhotoBooth programs and you're in. Easy, which is nice.

This is what I ended up purchasing (sigh...it's always about the $$$):

https://a.co/d/2yzt9wa