Buy Microscope.

[Edux]

Hi.
My name is Eduardo, I want advise on the purchase of a microscope.
http://www.ebay.es/itm/171936605031?_tr ... EBIDX%3AIT#
http://www.ebay.es/itm/262222363704?_tr ... EBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.es/itm/141805274493?_tr ... EBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.es/itm/381509960503?_tr ... EBIDX%3AIT
Among these four microscope which would you choose?
My budget would be of 2000€
Pardon my language
Thanks

[charlie]

Hello Eduardo

Choose for what? What is your background and what are your goals?

[Charles]

Hi Edux,

I would depend on what your purpose is to buying a microscope.

The Leitz Fluovert and the Leitz Diavert are both inverted microscopes, which means the objectives are below the speciment and the light is above. Of the two, I would go with the Fluovert since it also has Pol and DIC but if you want phase and Fluoro, then you would go with the Diavert.

Between the Nikon and the Orthoplan, I would go with the Orthoplan since it is more complete with phase. The Nikon only has one objective and is missing the slide holder.

All of the scopes, except the Nikon, also need power supplies

[75RR]

All these microscopes have already been sold.
Since they are not available the question must be about which model is best in very general terms.
Not sure quite what answer Edux expects nor how relevant it would be since we do not have any idea of his experience nor what use he plans to give them.

[JimT]

So Eduardo, lets here more about your background and interests so we can give you better advice.

[Edux]

Hi. Thanks for the answers. I am a student of Agricultural University of Madrid (Spain). I want to make yeast cultivation, fungi... do microphotograph. Check the performance of natural insectisidas in different plant parasites.
In principle, that's what I want the microscope.
The microscopes have not yet been sold. I have made offers for them, I will have negative feedback on eBay. I did not know that the deals were binding.
Sorry for my English

[einman]

[Charles]

So, you made offers on all four scopes and they all accepted your offer, so, you own all of these? I would contact the sellers immediately and let them know what happened. I'm sure they would understand.

[75RR]

I did not know that the deals were binding.

Agree with Charles - best to explain the misunderstanding.

As to the microscopes, since you might as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb, if they are not quite right then perhaps someone could recommend an ideal setup for what you hope to do, and a better match can be found on ebay.
Might be an idea to get a friend to buy it for you ;)

[KurtM]

Well now, this turned out to be an interesting thread! The Nikon E600 looks to be epi illumination only, no transmitted light.

[Edux]

Hi.
I've been looking at various websites, recommended for cultures of bacteria, fungi etc., an inverted microscope, because you can see directly from petri dish and to monitor activities (growth, behavior).
So I think that would be between these twoor similar:
http://www.ebay.es/itm/141805274493?_tr ... EBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.es/itm/171936605031?_tr ... EBIDX%3AIT#
1º GBP 725,00 (1.034 USD)
2º 2.300,00 USD
I'll have to explain to sellers, my mistake to send offers. I am noob to ebay. I hope they understand
Thank you very much for your answers.

[75RR]

The Leitz Fluovert and the Leitz Diavert are both inverted microscopes, which means the objectives are below the speciment and the light is above. Of the two, I would go with the Fluovert since it also has Pol and DIC but if you want phase and Fluoro, then you would go with the Diavert.

Not much to go on. Perhaps someone else will chip in.
Have you considered the availability and cost of spares/servicing?
Have you found the manuals yet and looked through them?
http://www.manualslib.com/download/9160 ... avert.html
http://www.frankshospitalworkshop.com/e ... manual.pdf

[Charles]

In my opinion, of the two inverted scopes, I would go for the Leitz Fluovert. It gives you Brightfield, Pol and DIC. It has two DIC prisms for the 25X and 40X and has the 25X objective but you will need the 40X as well as probably a 10X and/or 15X objective. It also seems the most complete with two lamps and power source.

[Edux]

Hi
Thanks thanks for manuals 75RR. I think Pol and DIC is a more complete microscope. I think in the future I can adapt to Fluoro, It will not be possible if.
Charles What type prism I would need to complete a (10x, 15x)? and objectives? Are they very expensive?
Not if you have in mind another best for my microscope?
Thank you very much!

Can you post on this forum?: The project I'm going to do to test the effectiveness of natural insectisidas in parasites. Materials, process. equipment ... Also the in vitro cultivation of plants. Can exchange ideas and share them.

Thank you very much!

[Charles]

You have a five objective turret, so I would get at least a long working distance L40X 0.60 objective and an intermediate objective to gap between the 5X and the 25X, so an EF 10X would be good to have. They also have a NPL 6.3X or EFL 32X to fill out the fifth spot. I would think that besides the two DIC prisms they would have some Phase (Phaco) positions on the condenser, so any of the above in Phaco would be nice if you want to have phase capabilities. But you would need to know what is actually in that condenser, so you can get compatible phase objectives. Look in the Fluovert manuel 75RR referenced and you can see all your choices, but first you need to know what is already on the Fluovert and what will be needed or nice to have for it.

[apochronaut]

Based on what you have mentioned so far, regarding your requirements I would say that you need two microscopes.

One of the most common methods of determining the effects of a toxic compound on parasites or microorganisms is to simply determine if the compound causes recession of a colony in a petri dish. This will often occasion the use of a stereo microscope, at both the innoculation and assessment stages.

Ultimately, there will need to be assessments done at the multi-cellular and cellular level, so the imaging of individul bacterial cells, fungal fruiting bodies and spores etc. , will also need to be done. To do a good job , you will need high resolution.


I would put about 400- 500 in a decent stereo and 1500-1600 into the diascopic scope. You will need at least a 5 place nosepiece, a 6 is better. IT is surprising , how far 1500.00 will go in the purchase of a used microscope on ebay.

One of the mistakes purchasers on ebay often make is brand identity. Anybodie's, 40X .85 planfluorite objective will work well. There may be small differences in resolution , or contrast but you are not purchasing new, where you can afford to be picky. Getting a bargain on any of them is what is needed. Some of the major makers, Zeiss in particular , more recent Leica, probably Nikon too, command high after market prices because there is an altar somewhere, for each of them. Being a devotee, is not practical, if you have a limited budget and need a microscope to do a job. The instrument isn't going to sit on a shelf and be fawned over. Grab the best buy, available and build on it as you can. If you end up loving the thing and become a devotee, after the fact, that's good. Schmoozing on worship day, with other devotees, may land you some needed accessories.

My recommendation for objectives,based on a 6 hole nosepiece, irregardless of the brand is 4-5X planachromat, 10X planachromat, 20X planachromat or planfluorite 40X planfluorite or planapo 50-60X planachro oil immersion, 100X planachro oil immersion.

The budget is limiting in terms of the optics. They may have to be picked up over time, and obviously whatever is on an available stand, has to initially do. If better optics show up, that much better but any relatively recent, planachros for the lower 3, to save money for the upper 3, will be perfectly adequate.Putting some money into a high N.A. planfluorite or planapo 40X, if possible, allows you to use 15X eyepieces to get 600X, and not have to mess with oil, maybe even 800X if the objective is up to it, and if a set of good 20's become available at low cost. Having a 50-60X oil immersion as well as a 100X oil immersion, so you can go backtrack in an oil mode to lower magnification, makes for a very convenient session, once you are geared up for high magnification. Those initially can be planachromats, to be improved as money permits.

Aim for a trinocular head, high wattage, 100 minimum, achromat condenser,cardioid dark field condenser. It's hard to get better imaging of some spores than with DF , which is the cheapest high resolution illumination system available. A universal type condenser would be nice. DIC and fluorescence capability for the future are a must .

Obviously, only some of these will be available on any given instrument but that's the minimum ideal packing list , I would look for.

[75RR]

To be clear then, you are saying no to the 4 microscopes Eduardo has chosen, as it should be possible to find a non big four that will do the job at a better price.

Agree that some sellers of the big four seem to live in an alternate reality.

So, the recommendation to Eduardo then is to apologize to all four sellers and ask to be excused, look around again for a more suitable microscope or 2 and not to bid on anything until he has asked for the forums opinion on his next potential purchase?

Is it possible to recommend something more specific, something that will help him in his search?

[Charles]

I think the Leitz Fluovert is a great start for Edux's needs for his research. It is an inverted with five objective turret, which is the most commonly used for studying cultures, and can be use with both incidental and transmitted light. It already has most of the components he needs and with the addition of a few key objectives and a fluoro unit, he'll have most of the lighting methods he will need.

[apochronaut]

The mistake you made in offering on all 4 . probably can be reversed. If not , you're kind of stuck, so you will need to make the best of it. Until knowing, how how you are stuck, one can't make further recommendations, except to comment on your choices.

I'm puzzled by your information, Edux because one of those microscopes is well above your budget, and will need considerable cash input to fill out it's optical requirements. If, you did manage to get an offer accepted within your budget restraints, then that one( the Fluovert), is probably a good bet but you still have to deal with the objective issue and that will be expensive. If you can land that microscope and get it up to your requirements for 2,000.00 E. , then don't hesitate but it seems unlikely.
The Nikon, is a met microscope and not of much use to you.
The Diavert is the buy of the lot at a listing price of 1000.00 E. and has possibilities to build it fairly economically. The 50 watt, lamphouse is limiting but that could be upgraded, in future. It is quite well equipped, has 160mm objectives and could be of great use until you can move up a little
The Orthoplan, although it looks promising is a 170mm microscope, so you are immediately having to deal with sourcing objective and eyepiece alternatives from existing and ever limited Leitz 170mm stock. It needs a fluorescence lamphouse and has only one phase objective. It's a lot of money for what you are getting.


I would imagine you have to deal with a lot of fungal fruiting bodies and spores and pretty much bridge between plant pathology and mycology. Given the necessity to image very small structures in high contrast and resolution. Personally, I can't see you getting around using DF for the kind of work you are doing. DF can image structures down to 24 NM, so you need to consider whether an inverted microscope is where you need to go. They are limited in their system diversity and the ultimate resolution level they can attain. For very specific applications such as tissue culture and histology, where communal relationships are being explored, they are an easy call to make and deserve a place in any biology lab but tying all ones money up in one, at the expense of having more flexibility would likely be a mistake. It would be like putting all your money into an expensive set of skis and poles but when the snow got to be 4 feet deep, you realized that a pair of snow shoes were what you really needed.

[apochronaut]

To be clear then, you are saying no to the 4 microscopes Eduardo has chosen, as it should be possible to find a non big four that will do the job at a better price.

Agree that some sellers of the big four seem to live in an alternate reality.

So, the recommendation to Eduardo then is to apologize to all four sellers and ask to be excused, look around again for a more suitable microscope or 2 and not to bid on anything until he has asked for the forums opinion on his next potential purchase?

Is it possible to recommend something more specific, something that will help him in his search?

To explain that.
The big 4 are only the big 4 now. Previously, there were the big 10 or something like that. 4 of those , got amalgamated into one of those big 4, several others just quit and a few smaller ones struggle on with limited markets. Clearly, Edux's budget precludes purchasing into modern imaging systems, such as Confocal, TIRF,CARS,OPO, etc. , so the modern incarnation of the big 4 are off the table. Even relatively older techniques, such as Hoffman Modulation, Contrast are off the table. So, any of the more conventional imaging systems that evolved from within any of the older microscope companies, as long as they are in good condition, can meet his requirements and as long as they are within budget. The big 4 tend to get higher prices than warranted, even as older equipment, due to a degree of ignorance displayed in the general marketplace when it comes to the options available. If I was in Europe and was looking for a microscope that was capable of a multitude of contrast methods, built into one frame, I would be keeping my eyes open for a Reichert Univar or Reichert Polyvar. They are infinity, all objectives over .70 have iris diaphragms, so there is no need to have special objectives for DF or fluorescence and the various contrast methods can be combined.....and I have seen good stands go for not much more than 1000.00. There were relatively more of them sold in Europe than in N.A., so the supply shouldn't be too bad, although because they were so good, I'm sure there are still a lot of them in service. Even PZO is a good option for Europe. The Biolar had a 100 watt version, with polarizing interference, phase, trinocular , DF . I am not sure about fluorescence but I presume so. Although PZO only made planachromats, they are a 160mm D.I.N. objectives and 160mm Zeiss, can be retrofitted and work perfectly.