Another DIC question

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Scarodactyl
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Re: Another DIC question

#61 Post by Scarodactyl » Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:06 pm

It is a bipin bolt iirc, at least in the model I took apart. A pair of needlenose pliers should work.
I'd be careful with heat since you don't want to damage those laminated prisms.

LouiseScot
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Re: Another DIC question

#62 Post by LouiseScot » Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:13 pm

Hobbyst46 wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:20 pm
A trick that worked for me once was adding a tiny drop of light machine oil along the rim of the moving part, and let it penetrate into the bearing (without warming). Too much oil will make it run too freely, though.
Thanks for the tip though I'm not sure about risking oil getting on the prisms. I quickly tried warming it earlier but it didn't do anything :( If anyone happens to have a diagram showing the insides - or better still, a photo - that would be useful. Tomorrow, I'll see if loosening the bolt helps.

Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

LouiseScot
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Re: Another DIC question

#63 Post by LouiseScot » Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:53 am

I found the Optiphot repair manual which has this drawing of a nosepiece:

OptiphotNosepieceDrawing.JPG
OptiphotNosepieceDrawing.JPG (65.49 KiB) Viewed 7393 times


I imagine the dic nosepiece is similar. It mentions lubricant G202 which I suppose is a type of G for grease but details lost in the mists of time now.
At least I can see where the ball bearings go, but I think disassembly will be a last resort!

Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

MichaelG.
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Re: Another DIC question

#64 Post by MichaelG. » Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:01 am

LouiseScot wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:53 am
I imagine the dic nosepiece is similar. It mentions lubricant G202 which I suppose is a type of G for grease but details lost in the mists of time now.
At least I can see where the ball bearings go, but I think disassembly will be a last resort!
.

It also shows the use of several grades of adhesive … So I agree with your conclusion.

MichaelG.
Too many 'projects'

LouiseScot
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Re: Another DIC question

#65 Post by LouiseScot » Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:55 am

Good news! - The warming has done the trick and allowed me to rotate it :) It's stiffened up a bit on cooling to (my) room temperature (17 deg). But at least it is rotatable now. I asked the seller about its provenance and he said he bought it many years ago at an auction of apparently new Nikon items including Multiphot lenses. So it must have been quite a few years ago! He says he only has Leitz microscopes so it's just sat in a cupboard since! I must admit, it does look brand new. I hope I can get it working. First job - I need some sort of an adapter which will hold it securely.

Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

Hobbyst46
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Re: Another DIC question

#66 Post by Hobbyst46 » Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:52 pm

Good news. Crossing fingers for the next...

LouiseScot
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Re: Another DIC question

#67 Post by LouiseScot » Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:59 pm

I managed to make a 2-part adapter with a female T-thread. In the pics I've attached a T-adapter for illustrative purposes :)
It would be nice to have an actual Labophot/Optiphot stand (especially to take the weight) but they are rather expensive :( Are there any equivalent stands that are cheapish and can take the 44mm nosepiece? Other than that, I'll have to make do.

DIC_adapt4.jpg
DIC_adapt4.jpg (23.95 KiB) Viewed 7358 times
DIC_adapt3.jpg
DIC_adapt3.jpg (46.55 KiB) Viewed 7358 times
DIC_adapt1.jpg
DIC_adapt1.jpg (39.34 KiB) Viewed 7358 times

Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

Scarodactyl
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Re: Another DIC question

#68 Post by Scarodactyl » Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:07 pm

Whoops, sorry I forgot to send you my design. This should work fine, though I can still send it if you'd like.
In the US labophot stands are pretty cheap, but our used market is just a lot friendlier in general. They did make some big id ustrial stands that take these nosepieces as well as some standalone head/nosepiece mounts that went onto a boom stand.

LouiseScot
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Re: Another DIC question

#69 Post by LouiseScot » Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:41 pm

Scarodactyl wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:07 pm
Whoops, sorry I forgot to send you my design. This should work fine, though I can still send it if you'd like.
In the US labophot stands are pretty cheap, but our used market is just a lot friendlier in general. They did make some big id ustrial stands that take these nosepieces as well as some standalone head/nosepiece mounts that went onto a boom stand.
No worries - my design should be ok. I might glue a metal T2 adapter in place just to make it very secure - it will obviously weigh even more with objectives attached. Unfortunately the cost of shipping from the States is prohibitive and the stands seem quite expensive over there anyway. I'm sure my adapter will do the job but I'm not sure about the motorised rail I'd be attaching to. The latter is fine as I've been using it with just a single objective but the nosepiece plus 2 or 3 objectives will be heaver. Of course, I'll have to try it and see :)

Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

Lomonaut
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Re: Another DIC question

#70 Post by Lomonaut » Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:48 pm

Interesting thread, I hope this will work out for you!

It makes me realize all the more how incredibly lucky I was with my DIC Optiphot acquisition... BTW its objective prisms are cemented and fixed in place in the nosepiece, it's a De Sénarmont system where adjustment is done with the polarizer and the condenser has a built-in retardation plate.

PeteM
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Re: Another DIC question

#71 Post by PeteM » Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:53 pm

Lomonaut wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:48 pm
. . . It makes me realize all the more how incredibly lucky I was with my DIC Optiphot acquisition... BTW its objective prisms are cemented and fixed in place in the nosepiece, it's a De Sénarmont system where adjustment is done with the polarizer and the condenser has a built-in retardation plate.
Any chance you could post a picture of your system? The ones I've had an opportunity to see have had either a slider up top (transmitted) or individually movable and removable prisms (reflected).

It IS good fortune to find a complete system at an affordable price.

LouiseScot
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Re: Another DIC question

#72 Post by LouiseScot » Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:00 pm

Lomonaut wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:48 pm
Interesting thread, I hope this will work out for you!

It makes me realize all the more how incredibly lucky I was with my DIC Optiphot acquisition... BTW its objective prisms are cemented and fixed in place in the nosepiece, it's a De Sénarmont system where adjustment is done with the polarizer and the condenser has a built-in retardation plate.
I've seen your past posts about it and the pics you took - the cheek cells came out well! My quad nosepiece is unused (until now!) and it cost me less than £300 with 4 prisms. So a bargain! I have a rail mounted motorised infinity system to attach it to. A little extra work needed - I'll need to fit a rotatable analyser by some means. I have suitable 10x, 20x and 40x objectives ready for it. If it all works I might consider getting a 5x objective to complete the set and maybe even a 100x one if I can find something affordable! My reason for buying the nosepiece was to, hopefully, use it to get my Sanderson prism project working. But if I only get the nosepiece and some sort of condenser prism up and running that would still be pretty good. As you can see from the pics my nosepiece has spring-loaded prisms which you can translate using the thumb screws. It's all good fun! I'm a compulsive tinkerer - I do it with nearly everything.

Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

Lomonaut
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Re: Another DIC question

#73 Post by Lomonaut » Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:15 pm

PeteM wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:53 pm
Any chance you could post a picture of your system? The ones I've had an opportunity to see have had either a slider up top (transmitted) or individually movable and removable prisms (reflected).
There are some pics and discussions here in My microscope:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=13133

That was so confusion in the beginning! The prisms hidden in the nosepiece cannot be moved like in Louise's.

It would be great to get it working with a Sanderson prism in the condenser, fingers crossed!

PeteM
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Re: Another DIC question

#74 Post by PeteM » Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:08 pm

Lomonaut wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:15 pm
. . .
There are some pics and discussions here in My microscope:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=13133 . . .
Now I recall. Thanks.

Did you ever find out if this nosepiece was something Nikon briefly tried? Or something the previous user managed to assemble? I suppose one way to tell might be the quality of the DIC effects?

LouiseScot
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Re: Another DIC question

#75 Post by LouiseScot » Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:16 pm

Lomonaut wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:15 pm
PeteM wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:53 pm
Any chance you could post a picture of your system? The ones I've had an opportunity to see have had either a slider up top (transmitted) or individually movable and removable prisms (reflected).
There are some pics and discussions here in My microscope:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=13133

That was so confusion in the beginning! The prisms hidden in the nosepiece cannot be moved like in Louise's.

It would be great to get it working with a Sanderson prism in the condenser, fingers crossed!
I made a holder for my pol analyser today and that allows me to revolve it when it's fitted to the infinity tube :) However, I think I might try the nosepiece on the Sanderson prototyping rail first as, at the moment, it's easier to arrange a Sanderson condenser prism. If it happens to just work, I'll be well pleased!

Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

LouiseScot
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Re: Another DIC question

#76 Post by LouiseScot » Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:38 pm

Hobbyst46 wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:43 pm
LouiseScot wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:37 pm
This Labophot has the same turret https://www.ebay.com/itm/202652540130?f ... irect=true
Expensive too!

Louise
And there is volume pricing... three DIC Optiphots on the shelf... :?
They are still for sale ha ha
I'd really like to get hold of some documentation for it (the Labophot 2 M with DIC) - particularly the DIC parts but can't seem to find anything online. The nosepiece I bought seems to work ok. I think it's also working with the Sanderson/polycarbonate prism but it's actually quite hard to tell! I'll try and post some images over the weekend :)

Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

LouiseScot
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Re: Another DIC question

#77 Post by LouiseScot » Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:21 pm

Does anyone know what you'd expect to see with a condenser prism (preferably Nikon) installed and you viewed down the tube with no objective or eyepiece - just crossed polarizers? I've been trying to match up polycarbonate prisms with the nosepiece prisms but still
can't seem to achieve DIC :( I must be doing something wrong...
Thanks for any info!
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

LouiseScot
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Re: Another DIC question

#78 Post by LouiseScot » Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:03 pm

LouiseScot wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:21 pm
Does anyone know what you'd expect to see with a condenser prism (preferably Nikon) installed and you viewed down the tube with no objective or eyepiece - just crossed polarizers? I've been trying to match up polycarbonate prisms with the nosepiece prisms but still
can't seem to achieve DIC :( I must be doing something wrong...
Thanks for any info!
Louise
So I came across this explanation in Murphy and Davidson's book (2013):
DIC_Alignment_Murphy2012.JPG
DIC_Alignment_Murphy2012.JPG (123.88 KiB) Viewed 6841 times
I found it very useful and was the only reference I could find that explicitly mentions the condenser prism view. It's generally a very good book (Fundamentals of Light Microscopy and Electronic Imaging (2013).
It actually confirmed what I previously thought. I can see both the objective prism dark fringe and the condenser prism one. My ones point Ne and SW but I presume that's caused by the tube lens. Anyway, they match, which I think is the most important thing. What I can't do with the DIC nosepiece is easily remove any of the prisms. So I can't check the extinction status. I was thinking of trying to undo and remove the 5x prism. I don't have a 5x objective and I'm unlikely to use that prism. Anyone know if I can remove it without causing any problems? And put it back later in case I choose to use it after all...?

Here's a pic I took at 20x using transmitted light and of some translucent plastic fabric which has a mesh-like structure:
Plastic1_0000138pc.jpg
Plastic1_0000138pc.jpg (98.97 KiB) Viewed 6841 times

The only trouble is that it doesn't look much different with the polycarbonate prism removed! Hmm... I wonder how that works?
I'm contemplating trying to get a better condenser (perhaps a dic and/or phase one. At the moment I only have a modified cheap one, which is probably not ideal...

Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

Scarodactyl
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Re: Another DIC question

#79 Post by Scarodactyl » Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:21 pm

Is the plastic birefringent?

LouiseScot
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Re: Another DIC question

#80 Post by LouiseScot » Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:38 pm

Scarodactyl wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:21 pm
Is the plastic birefringent?
No, but the objective is only a cheap infinity achromat. I'll have to try with the Nikon CFI60 20x Apo but wasn't sure if it would be compatible with the nosepiece prisms which are really intended to work with CF M Plan objectives.
Cheers
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

LouiseScot
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Re: Another DIC question

#81 Post by LouiseScot » Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:41 pm

Can anybody advise re removing the 5x nosepiece prism? Is there any problem/precaution with taking it out, putting it back in?

viewtopic.php?p=112137#p112137

Thanks

Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

LouiseScot
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Re: Another DIC question

#82 Post by LouiseScot » Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:37 pm

I assume I just need to undo the 4 larger screws, arranged in a square, in order to remove the prism holder from the nosepiece? Hope that's right!

Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

viktor j nilsson
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Re: Another DIC question

#83 Post by viktor j nilsson » Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:50 pm

Yes, but note that they are attached with a red thread locker. I believe it is alcohol soluble. I destroyed two of them on mine.

LouiseScot
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Re: Another DIC question

#84 Post by LouiseScot » Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:56 pm

viktor j nilsson wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:50 pm
Yes, but note that they are attached with a red thread locker. I believe it is alcohol soluble. I destroyed two of them on mine.
Oh, ok - thanks, Viktor! You mean the screws themselves are thread locked? I can't see anything externally... Does that also mean some fine adjustment is required if replacing the holder back on to the nosepiece?

Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

viktor j nilsson
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Re: Another DIC question

#85 Post by viktor j nilsson » Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:11 pm

LouiseScot wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:56 pm
viktor j nilsson wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:50 pm
Yes, but note that they are attached with a red thread locker. I believe it is alcohol soluble. I destroyed two of them on mine.
Oh, ok - thanks, Viktor! You mean the screws themselves are thread locked? I can't see anything externally... Does that also mean some fine adjustment is required if replacing the holder back on to the nosepiece?

Louise
AmVg4LG~3.jpg
AmVg4LG~3.jpg (67.42 KiB) Viewed 6785 times
Yes, the screws are thread locked. If you look closely at the photo you can see the red glue still left in the screw hole. They are stuck really hard, and the screws are soft.

There shouldn't be any trouble with alignment. It's just that they aren't meant to be opened up by the user.

LouiseScot
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Re: Another DIC question

#86 Post by LouiseScot » Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:17 pm

viktor j nilsson wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:11 pm
LouiseScot wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:56 pm
viktor j nilsson wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:50 pm
Yes, but note that they are attached with a red thread locker. I believe it is alcohol soluble. I destroyed two of them on mine.
Oh, ok - thanks, Viktor! You mean the screws themselves are thread locked? I can't see anything externally... Does that also mean some fine adjustment is required if replacing the holder back on to the nosepiece?

Louise

AmVg4LG~3.jpg

Yes, the screws are thread locked. If you look closely at the photo you can see the red glue still left in the screw hole. They are stuck really hard, and the screws are soft.

There shouldn't be any trouble with alignment. It's just that they aren't meant to be opened up by the user.
Thanks for the pic! I presume I can't separately just undo the prism for similar reasons. Maybe I should leave well alone... I'll sleep on it :)

Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

viktor j nilsson
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Re: Another DIC question

#87 Post by viktor j nilsson » Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:21 pm

What do you mean by undo the prisms? Getting the screws out is the only difficult part. I wasn't aware of the adhesive being alcohol soluble when I opened mine up, so I just used brute force. But even then I got them out.

You might want to mark which prism is which, and which way they sit, so you can place them back the right way.

To me, the nosepiece was of little use unless I took the prisms out.

LouiseScot
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Re: Another DIC question

#88 Post by LouiseScot » Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:31 pm

viktor j nilsson wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:21 pm
What do you mean by undo the prisms? Getting the screws out is the only difficult part. I wasn't aware of the adhesive being alcohol soluble when I opened mine up, so I just used brute force. But even then I got them out.

You might want to mark which prism is which, and which way they sit, so you can place them back the right way.

To me, the nosepiece was of little use unless I took the prisms out.
Um, well there's the holder attached to the nosepiece and there are the prisms inside the holder - or does the prism actually come out at the same time if you remove the holder? I was only thinking in terms of removing the 5x prism so that I could confirm polariser adjustment / extinction and to be able to check out my diy polycarbonate condenser prisms separately.

Thanks

Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

viktor j nilsson
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Re: Another DIC question

#89 Post by viktor j nilsson » Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:43 pm

LouiseScot wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:31 pm
viktor j nilsson wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:21 pm
What do you mean by undo the prisms? Getting the screws out is the only difficult part. I wasn't aware of the adhesive being alcohol soluble when I opened mine up, so I just used brute force. But even then I got them out.

You might want to mark which prism is which, and which way they sit, so you can place them back the right way.

To me, the nosepiece was of little use unless I took the prisms out.
Um, well there's the holder attached to the nosepiece and there are the prisms inside the holder - or does the prism actually come out at the same time if you remove the holder? I was only thinking in terms of removing the 5x prism so that I could confirm polariser adjustment / extinction and to be able to check out my diy polycarbonate condenser prisms separately.

Thanks

Louise
You see the two parts behind and to the right of the holder in my picture? Those are the prisms. They sit in a small metal holder. The holder+prism slides back and forth when you twist the knob.
It pushes against a spring (size like a spring from a ball point pen). If you unscrew the knob into its outermost position the metal holder+prism comes out easily.

I've removed the prisms from the small metal holder, that glue is alcohol soluble too.. But the metal holders are so small you probably don't need to in your optical bench setup.

LouiseScot
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Re: Another DIC question

#90 Post by LouiseScot » Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:58 pm

viktor j nilsson wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:43 pm
LouiseScot wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:31 pm
viktor j nilsson wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:21 pm
What do you mean by undo the prisms? Getting the screws out is the only difficult part. I wasn't aware of the adhesive being alcohol soluble when I opened mine up, so I just used brute force. But even then I got them out.

You might want to mark which prism is which, and which way they sit, so you can place them back the right way.

To me, the nosepiece was of little use unless I took the prisms out.
Um, well there's the holder attached to the nosepiece and there are the prisms inside the holder - or does the prism actually come out at the same time if you remove the holder? I was only thinking in terms of removing the 5x prism so that I could confirm polariser adjustment / extinction and to be able to check out my diy polycarbonate condenser prisms separately.

Thanks

Louise
You see the two parts behind and to the right of the holder in my picture? Those are the prisms. They sit in a small metal holder. The holder+prism slides back and forth when you twist the knob.
It pushes against a spring (size like a spring from a ball point pen). If you unscrew the knob into its outermost position the metal holder+prism comes out easily.

I've removed the prisms from the small metal holder, that glue is alcohol soluble too.. But the metal holders are so small you probably don't need to in your optical bench setup.
Ahh... I didn't realise that the prisms came out if you completely undo the thumbscrew! D'uh! I wish I'd realised that before!!

The nosepiece is attached to my infinity rail system:
Rig1.jpg
Rig1.jpg (58.94 KiB) Viewed 6770 times
Thanks again!

Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

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