Really cool mod to see 3d in compound microscope

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marcel_
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Really cool mod to see 3d in compound microscope

#1 Post by marcel_ » Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:35 am

Just stumbled on this really cool mod. Did anyone try this at all?
https://youtu.be/z6TUnvAD-Pg


It is basically using the 3d technique simular to using 3d glasses, by making sure your left eye sees a different image as your right eye.
Seems like it will either give you a major headache or you find this really cool. Just like the 3d movies. ;)

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patta
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Re: Really cool mod to see 3d in compound microscope

#2 Post by patta » Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:11 pm

That's a very neat trick
I've tried with half-stops ("3D caps") at the eyepiece, an old mod that (should) give the same result, by splitting the aperture in left & right.
But this method with the two polarizers at the objective back focal plane, looks like much cooler and easier to use.

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Re: Really cool mod to see 3d in compound microscope

#3 Post by josmann » Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:13 am

patta wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:11 pm
That's a very neat trick
I've tried with half-stops ("3D caps") at the eyepiece, an old mod that (should) give the same result, by splitting the aperture in left & right.
But this method with the two polarizers at the objective back focal plane, looks like much cooler and easier to use.
Indeed I believe you will find it much more pleasant :)

Configured like this there is no difference in looking into the scope from how you normally do. I've found it to be every bit as comfortable and easy to look through as without the mod.
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Re: Really cool mod to see 3d in compound microscope

#4 Post by marcel_ » Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:08 pm

I just bought a few polarisation sheets just for this purpose.
These sheets were originally meant for a phone. But it seems that they do not block the light that much. You can see through quite well, if I put two on top of the other and turn them. They're supposed to block the light at some position. There's only a little difference in darkness if I turn them.
So I may buy them from China (takes weeks to arrive) or find an alternative closer to home. Any suggestions?

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Re: Really cool mod to see 3d in compound microscope

#5 Post by josmann » Sun Jan 30, 2022 11:29 pm

marcel_ wrote:
Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:08 pm
I just bought a few polarisation sheets just for this purpose.
These sheets were originally meant for a phone. But it seems that they do not block the light that much. You can see through quite well, if I put two on top of the other and turn them. They're supposed to block the light at some position. There's only a little difference in darkness if I turn them.
So I may buy them from China (takes weeks to arrive) or find an alternative closer to home. Any suggestions?
Hi Marcel, linear polarizing film should be gray in white light (it will block around 60% of unpolarized light) and turn very dark when crossed with another piece. It may be that you purchased something else. The light from LCD screens is usually strongly polarized and it is possible to add a thin film on top which converts the linear polarization to circular polarization. This has the effect of making the LCD viewable if you're wearing polarized sunglasses. If the film you received is visually clear, then this may be what you purchased. Sorry if that's the case but don't throw it out! Such film has plenty of applications in microscopy and possibly for fine tuning this mod as well.

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Re: Really cool mod to see 3d in compound microscope

#6 Post by marcel_ » Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:02 pm

So, it might actually not be so bad.
I see the following when I hold them :


Blocking mode, slightly curved, this creates a lot of colors on the picture, in real life not that much
IMG_20220201_184631_edit_329913636321532_copy_736x547_1.jpg
IMG_20220201_184631_edit_329913636321532_copy_736x547_1.jpg (26.71 KiB) Viewed 4253 times
Non blocking mode is still blocking a lot
IMG_20220201_184611_edit_329928644086113_copy_930x593_1.jpg
IMG_20220201_184611_edit_329928644086113_copy_930x593_1.jpg (31.69 KiB) Viewed 4253 times
Blocking mode very flat on top of eachother, however it is not a lot of difference compared to non blocking in real life
IMG_20220201_185420_edit_330403201743853_copy_957x725.jpg
IMG_20220201_185420_edit_330403201743853_copy_957x725.jpg (61.59 KiB) Viewed 4253 times
Blocking mode again, but now hold against a lamp: as you can see: a lot of light is coming through
IMG_20220201_185428_edit_330386260928231_copy_753x746.jpg
IMG_20220201_185428_edit_330386260928231_copy_753x746.jpg (60.95 KiB) Viewed 4253 times

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Re: Really cool mod to see 3d in compound microscope

#7 Post by josmann » Tue Feb 01, 2022 8:39 pm

Do these have protective film on them? The color banding you observed is indicative of some sort of extra layer between them. If you remove the film and cross them, they may get a lot darker when crossed. Another thing to check - at what angle to you get maximum darkness? Normally this stuff is cut so the polarization orientation is horizontal or vertical but for phone screen polarizers it may be 45 degrees.
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Re: Really cool mod to see 3d in compound microscope

#8 Post by marcel_ » Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:07 am

Thanks josmann. Good suggestion. There is indeed a protective layer that I was able to peel off. First I thought to keep it, since I reckoned that it would be unusable if the layer would be covered with glue. But it turns out no glue is used. Makes me wonder how it would stay on your phone.

Anyway, the results are still interesting.

You have to play with turning and - very important - flipping the sheets.
If you do not flip them in the correct way it does only let through some light of some color depending on the angle in relation to the light source.


I will keep them to see how they can be used. In the mean time I ordered other sheets as well.
Different angles towards light source :



Sheets held at some flipped position results in the desired blocking.
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Re: Really cool mod to see 3d in compound microscope

#9 Post by josmann » Wed Feb 02, 2022 12:13 pm

Aha, the flip sensitivity is the giveaway!

What you have there are polarizers that are cut with the polarization angle at 45 degrees. I’m gonna make a little video about your experience since it’s interesting but for now you should be able to do ShinyaVision as I described it except, if you have a folding head you’ll skip the part where you cut a smaller square (it’s already oriented correctly for that) and if you have a sliding head you’ll need to do that step (to get to a horizontal/vertical orientation).

Essentially what you’re running into here is the reason I have folks write “F”s on the pieces - the behavior of 45 degree oriented polarizing stuff can be unintuitive although it’ll hopefully become obvious after I demonstrate it in detail :)

I even found a video in the description of this alibaba listing where they're stamping filters like this out at a 45 degree angle: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 3d1fdWCtSX
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Re: Really cool mod to see 3d in compound microscope

#10 Post by richbart » Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:14 pm

I just saw this mod and found it intriguing. The only problem I see is because it depends on both oculars and the objective, how could you film it. If you use trinocular head, or camera in one ocular it seems like it wouldnt work. Haven’t tried it yet, but looking forward to working with idea. I have BH2 BHTU scope, so I wouldn’t have to make the square in the square. One mod I have used that I like has to do with putting frosted scotch tape over cover slip, and putting in DF patch. You have to put cover slip on diaphragm under sample.You have to fool around with field diaphragm opening, but looks pretty cool.
Last edited by richbart on Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Really cool mod to see 3d in compound microscope

#11 Post by josmann » Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:53 am

richbart wrote:
Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:14 pm
I just saw this mod and found it intriguing. The only problem I see is because it depends on both oculars and the objective, how could you film it.
Indeed, this would require two cameras to capture correctly as well as a stereoscopic or virtual reality presentation for the viewer :). Unlike the method you described (which is very cool on its own), it doesn't shade things to make them "look 3D" - it actually is a 3D view of the subject.

I did put together a 2D demo of the effect so you can get an idea of how the left and right eyepieces look different:


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Re: Really cool mod to see 3d in compound microscope

#12 Post by josmann » Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:50 pm

And here is the promised video inspired by the events we encountered here!

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Re: Really cool mod to see 3d in compound microscope

#13 Post by marcel_ » Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:58 pm

Hi Jason,

It works! 😀
It's great!

I really am very happy with the result. It really is 3d.
I admit that the combination with darkfield works best.
My first slide was one with salted toothpaste. The crystals looked like ice mountains that I flew over. Like being on an expedition.
Then I experimented a bit with a watery moss sample. This indeed had a very cool effect as if the rotifers were crawling more towards you. Ok, it was not as good as a Spielberg movie but still very cool to see.
So a big thank you for sharing your ideas. This mod is really worth it.
I must say that your instruction where you show the half dark view when taking off the eyepiece is quite important. This is where I decided how to cut the parts of the eyepieces by holding them against it before sticking them to the eyepiece.

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Re: Really cool mod to see 3d in compound microscope

#14 Post by josmann » Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:37 pm

marcel_ wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:58 pm
Hi Jason,

It works! 😀
It's great!

I really am very happy with the result. It really is 3d.
I admit that the combination with darkfield works best.
My first slide was one with salted toothpaste. The crystals looked like ice mountains that I flew over. Like being on an expedition.
Then I experimented a bit with a watery moss sample. This indeed had a very cool effect as if the rotifers were crawling more towards you. Ok, it was not as good as a Spielberg movie but still very cool to see.
So a big thank you for sharing your ideas. This mod is really worth it.
I must say that your instruction where you show the half dark view when taking off the eyepiece is quite important. This is where I decided how to cut the parts of the eyepieces by holding them against it before sticking them to the eyepiece.
This is so great to read! I hope you'll encourage other folks to try it as well - I really do think it's something everyone should know about.

I encourage you to try it at other magnifcations and with other illumination techniques too! I think a deep blue Rheinberg filter would work nicely. I've spent so much time producing videos that I really haven't taken the time to try other things. I specified 10x because I know people can get darkfield on that pretty easily but it should work at any mag.
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Re: Really cool mod to see 3d in compound microscope

#15 Post by marcel_ » Sat Feb 05, 2022 9:47 pm

Just an update. I found that the effect was getting less clear and I was wondering why. So I closed one eye and it seemed that one eye was giving a clearer result than the other. I found out the reason.
The polarisation filter used for phones has a protective layer of plastic. I already peeled that off, as we discussed above. That already left me wondering how it would ever work on a phone, since I was expecting a glue layer.
Well... there's is a glue layer... There is another layer of plastic on the other side. Which indeed uncovers the glue that sits on top of the polarisation film. This layer was getting loose and blurring one side.
However taking it off also meant that the glue side for one of the eyepieces was facing towards my eye, glueing my eyelashes. Thus making the 3d experience a little more complicated but more entertaining for bystanders. I cleaned the glue off with a little alcohol.
The result is definitely better, much clearer.

One thing you should definitely use is a darkfield or color patch (rheinberg), making the background blue or darker. It does really stand out so much better.
Although this effect would theoretically work for all objectives, I think because of the depth of field 4x and 10x are best suited. I use 10x and 16x eyepieces and it is perfect. The out of focus parts also add to the perceived effect. My kids were able to see the difference as well. It is basically a binoculars effect.

Another thing I noticed is that you are much more aware of the space between the slide and coverglass. It reminds me of ice skating and seeing the bottom of the lake and the fish swimming underneath the ice.

So yes, I can only encourage people to start using it. It is very cool.

Oh and I would not recommend the phone filters. Just buy yourself a filter without the glue layer.

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Re: Really cool mod to see 3d in compound microscope

#16 Post by josmann » Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:51 pm

marcel_ wrote:
Sat Feb 05, 2022 9:47 pm
However taking it off also meant that the glue side for one of the eyepieces was facing towards my eye, glueing my eyelashes. Thus making the 3d experience a little more complicated but more entertaining for bystanders.
Oh noooooo! I never expected this mod could be so dangerous :lol: At any rate, fewer eyelashes means less oil on your eyepieces so really it's a feature!
Another thing I noticed is that you are much more aware of the space between the slide and coverglass. It reminds me of ice skating and seeing the bottom of the lake and the fish swimming underneath the ice.
Yes! I love this description of the effect! This is exactly what I mean when I say it changes my whole perception of the critters I observe. It feels like we only ever understand them two-dimensionally, but they have three dimensional lives just like us! One thing I'm really hoping I can find again are didinium - the famous paramecium hunters. They are known for swimming around in circles as they hunt but I bet it becomes even more interesting once you give them a lot more headroom to maneuver!
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