Fibre optic light sources

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imkap
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Fibre optic light sources

#1 Post by imkap » Tue Sep 13, 2022 6:58 am

I'd like some incident lights for experimenting with my microscopes (stereo, bh-2) and for macro photography. I've looked up on ebay and found some pieces by Leica, too highly priced for my taste, so that is out. I'm not sure it is better than some other non-Leica branded, like the one below...

At a reasonable price I found a Schott ACE 1 (150w halogen) with one gooseneck with a ring, not dual gooseneck. I suppose a ring has it's advantages, but probably might be able to source a dual gooseneck in time. Not sure if I'd be able to fit a ring around the objective on a BH-2...
There is a Meiji techno unit MO150 at an ok price, but without any gooseneck, not sure if it is possible to source this later. Maybe it is compatible with other brands?

A reasonable price for me is sub 100€/$...

Do you have any thoughts or experiences with this kind of stuff?

Thanks

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#2 Post by dtsh » Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:17 am

I have a dual 3W LED gooseneck, not quite the same as 150w fiber optic, but it's better than nothing.
I like remote illuminators for the most part as I can use the same high quality output on multiple scopes with just a little fiddling. The only downside is they tend to consume desk space which is in ever short supply.
I don't use the gooseneck with my compound that often, but I find it very handy with the stereo.

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#3 Post by imkap » Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:41 am

I was thinking about making a dual gooseneck with leds as I have some spare leds and goosenecks. But realised that there are some reasonably priced units for sale and the process of making it would be time consuming with an uncertain outcome.

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#4 Post by imkap » Tue Sep 13, 2022 11:06 am

I see there are versions with an iris on the 'output' hole. You can lower the light amount with the potentiometer obviously, so not sure what effect do you get by using the iris.

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#5 Post by Phill Brown » Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:21 pm

USB flexible LEDs on a power bank with a couple outlets is cost effective and has enough light for stereo scopes.
I have a jenalux but that was a lucky find in a job lot, doesn't get much use. It uses 8v on a 6v bulb that isn't very friendly for bulb life. 50hrs.

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#6 Post by Hobbyst46 » Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:49 pm

It is possible to construct a LED ring from flexible LED strips, that will illuminate the specimen under the 2.5-10x objective. Much more difficult for the 40X objective.
I have recently mounted a very inexpensive, 12V 1W neutral white light LED on the head such that it beams diagonally from above. Will show in a photo later.

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#7 Post by Scarodactyl » Tue Sep 13, 2022 5:12 pm

The big microscope brands sourced their halogen lights externally from companies like schott fostec, dolan jenner and chiu. No reason to pay extra for a decal.
I have found they all tend to be pretty good. I also like the stocker yale 21ac (previously sold by thorlabs as the osl1 and by others).
Whatever type you get it's better to buy one with the goosenecks already installed since assessing compatibility is a pain.
Ring lights are nice for some subjects but they're less versatile.

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#8 Post by blekenbleu » Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:10 pm

Dolan-Jenner 180 are available used, usually cheap and often with fiber pairs.
Replacement MR16 lamp, Osram EKE 150W 21V, is also readily available.
Brutally crude electrically, but also reliable.
DG180.jpg
DG180.jpg (46.37 KiB) Viewed 8583 times
Metaphot, Optiphot 1, 66; AO 10, 120, EPIStar, Cycloptic

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#9 Post by imkap » Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:37 pm

Phill Brown wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:21 pm
USB flexible LEDs on a power bank with a couple outlets is cost effective and has enough light for stereo scopes.
I have a jenalux but that was a lucky find in a job lot, doesn't get much use. It uses 8v on a 6v bulb that isn't very friendly for bulb life. 50hrs.
I thought of that, I even got 2 Jansjo USB from IKEA, but the new version is sooo weak at 0.3W and too scattered spot light. It might be ok for visual in addition to the light I have on my SZ40, but when recording or photographing there is never enough light. :D
I didn't think about these fiber optics until I saw that there is some choice in what I think is the 'affordable' range. I think I'll go in that direction.

Hobbyst46 wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:49 pm
It is possible to construct a LED ring from flexible LED strips, that will illuminate the specimen under the 2.5-10x objective. Much more difficult for the 40X objective.
I have recently mounted a very inexpensive, 12V 1W neutral white light LED on the head such that it beams diagonally from above. Will show in a photo later.
Thanks for the suggestion... For my last DIY project with the light on the GFL I did spend quite a few $$, I think more than 60-70 + I bought some tools, the LEDs are not available locally so had to order multiple etc. After I got the LEDs, I immediately wanted to try a different model :mrgreen:
I'm not sorry, as I think it was time well spent, I learned something and the GFL functions pretty good. I'm more into DIY condenser fiddling these days. I'll try to adapt the 0.9 condenser from an Axiolab to BH-2 and then fiddle with the inside to try to make good darkfield with it. And bought a new 3 meter desk I need to assemble, for work (my real money acquiring work), the microscope and kids (at least one of them at a time) to do homework. So I would like a complete product to come at my door this time, don't want to start a DIY project now. I know it will not end up simply...
Scarodactyl wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 5:12 pm
Ring lights are nice for some subjects but they're less versatile.
:D
I thought so, I'd like to have some control. It would be nice if I had both, but as you said probably not easy to find just the compatible cables. Although you never know.
blekenbleu wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:10 pm
Dolan-Jenner 180 are available used, usually cheap and often with fiber pairs.
Replacement MR16 lamp, Osram EKE 150W 21V, is also readily available.
Brutally crude electrically, but also reliable.
This kind of thing seems like something I might like. I'll search...
EDIT: They are quite affordable, but all in the US. As always :roll:

I've stumbled upon a Meiji Techno fibre optics unit and seen it was made in Slovenia, didn't know they had a factory there. Unfortunately with no cables, but I'm thinking I might investigate the matter a bit as I have some friends there. Who knows what I'll find out.

Thanks for your help, everyone... :D
Last edited by imkap on Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#10 Post by Scarodactyl » Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:42 pm

imkap wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:37 pm
Scarodactyl wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 5:12 pm
Ring lights are nice for some subjects but they're less versatile.
:D
I thought so, I'd like to have some control. It would be nice if I had both, but as you said probably not easy to find just the compatible cables. Although you never know.
Generally speaking it's vital that dual goosenecks are perfectly compatible, because if they aren't they won't be firmly held to the illuminator and you won't be able to pose them. If the ring light is a bit too small you can just loosely hold it into the illuminator with one of the set screws and it will be fine since it's fixed to the microscope.

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#11 Post by imkap » Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:50 pm

Scarodactyl wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:42 pm
Generally speaking it's vital that dual goosenecks are perfectly compatible, because if they aren't they won't be firmly held to the illuminator and you won't be able to pose them. If the ring light is a bit too small you can just loosely hold it into the illuminator with one of the set screws and it will be fine since it's fixed to the microscope.
I understand. The ring light I saw is ~5mm wider than my microscope, but I think I might have the adapter made simply. I don't think I'll find an original Olympus unit for a good price.

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#12 Post by blekenbleu » Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:53 pm

imkap wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:37 pm
probably not easy to find just the compatible cables
Actually, much like microscopes, there are multiple "standards", but many use 15mm (or 5/8-inch) ferrules,
but again (like microscopes), it is usually easier to get a complete one cheaper than piecing together.
Metaphot, Optiphot 1, 66; AO 10, 120, EPIStar, Cycloptic

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#13 Post by imkap » Mon Jan 02, 2023 10:00 am

I decided to buy one of these, there are some options on ebay currently.
Some have only one potentiometer for adjusting light bulb voltage / intensity, others have an additional knob for closing the iris. I'm not sure what effect would I get by having the option with an iris, they are a bit more expensive. Does any of you have experience with the iris variant?
Thanks

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#14 Post by jfiresto » Mon Jan 02, 2023 11:23 am

An iris lets you dim the output, without lowering the brightness temperature of a halogen bulb, at the cost of shortening its life.
-John

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#15 Post by imkap » Mon Jan 02, 2023 11:53 am

I understand, so I could have a color temperature I'd want and the bulb might last longer. Thanks

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#16 Post by imkap » Mon Jan 02, 2023 3:04 pm

I found this one: overall cost with shipping and import would be 135€. These come cheaper in the US, but it is how it is. It says Meiji techno, but it is made by Dolan Jenner U.S.

The only thing missing are the focusing lens, which should go to tips of the goosenecks. Maybe I could source these somewhere, or make something out of old eyepieces and 3d printed parts. I don't know. I'll send an email to Meiji, but I suspect it might be too expensive. Maybe you have some suggestions, thanks

https://www.ebay.com/itm/225302319919?m ... XEDvGjYSe2

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#17 Post by blekenbleu » Mon Jan 02, 2023 4:01 pm

imkap wrote:
Mon Jan 02, 2023 3:04 pm
The only thing missing are the focusing lens, which should go to tips of the goosenecks. Maybe I could source these somewhere
I have not needed those, but: https://www.edmundoptics.com/f/fiber-li ... ses/11349/

Also, FWIW, extensive use of halogen bulbs well below their rated power accelerates tungsten deposition on the glass.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halogen_l ... ogen_cycle
A key reason for variable power control is to limit initial inrush current, rather than operating intensity, for which use aperture.
Last edited by blekenbleu on Mon Jan 02, 2023 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#18 Post by imkap » Mon Jan 02, 2023 4:08 pm

Quite expensive, as everything :mrgreen:

So you think we might be ok without these for a start? I looked up and saw quite a few Dolan Jenner units including these on eBay. Probably someone will want to send them here separately. Shipping from US is unfortunately too expensive for the whole unit.

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#19 Post by blekenbleu » Mon Jan 02, 2023 4:29 pm

imkap wrote:
Mon Jan 02, 2023 4:08 pm
So you think we might be ok without these for a start?
Yes, you may discover that additional illumination concentration is unwanted.
I mostly use my cold light with an AO Cycloptic,
at which magnifications and illumination field diameters such lenses are inapplicable.
For higher magnifications, e.g. metallurgical microscopy,
small objective working distances confound relatively large diameter illuminator proximity,
compounded by difficulty precisely directing more focused beams.
Metaphot, Optiphot 1, 66; AO 10, 120, EPIStar, Cycloptic

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#20 Post by jfiresto » Mon Jan 02, 2023 5:25 pm

blekenbleu wrote:
Mon Jan 02, 2023 4:01 pm
... Also, FWIW, extensive use of halogen bulbs well below their rated power accelerates tungsten deposition on the glass.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halogen_l ... ogen_cycle....
Yes, but it is often the case that the bulb life is still lengthened at lower temperatures - just not as much as you would expect if it were a non-halogen bulb.

Here is what Schott expects for their KL-1500 HAL, 150W halogen light source:
kl1500_bulb_life.gif
kl1500_bulb_life.gif (21.13 KiB) Viewed 7812 times
Extending a 50h bulb life (the STANDARD range) three- to thirty-fold, is fairly substantial.
-John

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#21 Post by Chas » Mon Jan 02, 2023 7:17 pm

Phill Brown wrote: ↑
Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:21 pm
USB flexible LEDs on a power bank with a couple outlets is cost effective and has enough light for stereo scopes.
I have a jenalux but that was a lucky find in a job lot, doesn't get much use. It uses 8v on a 6v bulb that isn't very friendly for bulb life. 50hrs.

I thought of that, I even got 2 Jansjo USB from IKEA, but the new version is sooo weak at 0.3W and too scattered spot light. It might be ok for visual in addition to the light I have on my SZ40, but when recording or photographing there is never enough light. :D
I didn't think about these fiber optics until I saw that there is some choice in what I think is the 'affordable' range. I think I'll go in that direction.
The Jansjo USB things are pathetic!... When my old (3W) Jansjo started playing up, I looked around & there seem to be (on Amazon) a lot of 'Magnetic work lights' or 'LED machine lights' that seem to have a similar flexible neck and are 15W+ LED.
[I havent tried one, yet. But they seem to have a larger head than the Jansjo and so might be easier to diffuse ]

Edit; these sort of things:
Amazon work lights.jpg
Amazon work lights.jpg (46.85 KiB) Viewed 7707 times
I got a used halogen fibre light and noticed two things straight away ; with a large heavy base unit one end of the flexible light is sort of 'pinned' and so getting the lighting end manoeuvered is more of a fight. The second thing if that is the power unit has been working somewhere not too pleasent the stink that comes out can be horrible....so my fibre light sits in a cupboard unused
Last edited by Chas on Mon Jan 02, 2023 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#22 Post by jfiresto » Mon Jan 02, 2023 7:31 pm

Chas wrote:
Mon Jan 02, 2023 7:17 pm
...I got a used halogen fibre light and noticed two things straight away ; with a large heavy base unit one end of the flexible light is sort of 'pinned' and so getting the lighting end manoeuvered is more of a fight. The second thing if that is the power unit has been working somewhere not too pleasent the stink that comes out can be horrible....so my fibre light sits in a cupboard unused
After confirming the optics were in order and while waiting for it to cool down, I had a 150W halogen light source snap, crackle and pour out smoke. Fortunately, I was standing next to it and could pull the plug.

It had been listed as "for parts / not working", although the only thing that seemed amiss was the fuse holder cap of the 12V halogen circuit was missing and the 10A slow blow fuse was welded to the metal fuse cap contact. I fixed that and had a working light source for about ten minutes. Well, I did buy it to convert to LED.
Last edited by jfiresto on Mon Jan 02, 2023 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-John

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#23 Post by Scarodactyl » Mon Jan 02, 2023 7:33 pm

For the record if it reeks like rotten fish and urine you might be smelling burning insulation. I've had that smell twice, only realized what it was after thr same smell occurred from a bad outlet (thabks, previous house owner!)

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#24 Post by jfiresto » Mon Jan 02, 2023 7:45 pm

Mine smelled more like the epoxy ash I remember from some erupted, industrial control electronics that had been struck (or nearly struck) by lightning.
-John

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#25 Post by imkap » Mon Jan 02, 2023 8:16 pm

I ended up buying this, a bit more expensive but I hope it will be good. It has an iris and some options, even an LCD screen :? with some probably redundant info. If I was more patient probably I'd have found a better offer, but 210 is kind of ok and I thought of this as a birthday present, so it should come in time. Hopefully it won't smell of carcass or burn down the house...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265860089056

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#26 Post by Scarodactyl » Mon Jan 02, 2023 8:18 pm

I have one of this model. It's nice, a lot of brands use it.

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#27 Post by imkap » Mon Jan 02, 2023 8:28 pm

Scarodactyl wrote:
Mon Jan 02, 2023 8:18 pm
I have one of this model. It's nice, a lot of brands use it.
Yes I found Zeiss, Leica and generic Schott along with Olympus. Hopefully accessories should be easily available for it then. I'm glad you say it's nice, as it was a bit impulsive buy :D

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#28 Post by jfiresto » Mon Jan 02, 2023 8:44 pm

Does that one really have an iris? (I have a predecessor which I like.) Instead, I think your unit has a switch to insert or remove some supplementary optics.
supp_optics_lever.gif
supp_optics_lever.gif (14.59 KiB) Viewed 7722 times
The use of the supplementary optics ensures that you will achieve uniform, high intensity illumination even when using light guides with a smaller bundle diameter than 9 mm.

If the illumination is carried out with imaging or focussing optical systems at the light guide exit, perfectly uniform illumination is achieved by moving the supplementary optics out of the optical path.

To pivot the supplementary optics in and out, turn the pivot lever (6) clockwise or anti-clockwise to the corresponding symbols. The supplementary optics always need to be pivot in or out as far as they will go!
EDIT: Sorry, you are right, it also have a mechanical aperture. I am afraid my lighting is not one but two generations out of date.
Last edited by jfiresto on Mon Jan 02, 2023 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-John

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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#29 Post by blekenbleu » Mon Jan 02, 2023 8:51 pm

imkap wrote:
Mon Jan 02, 2023 8:16 pm
It has an iris and some options, even an LCD screen
Those smaller tips should work better near microscope objectives than do more typical 13mm tips...
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Re: Fibre optic light sources

#30 Post by imkap » Mon Jan 02, 2023 8:57 pm

Brochure says for the second knob: "Mechanical brightness control without variation of the light’s color temperature" so I presumed it is an iris.

For the small switch it says: "Switch for optimizing the illumination", I suppose it is the one you mention, hopefully the supplements are included :?

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