Newbie interested in mycology

What is your microscopy history? What are your interests? What equipment do you use?
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nin
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Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:54 am

Newbie interested in mycology

#1 Post by nin » Thu May 06, 2021 2:27 am

Hi everyone,

I'm a recent college graduate interested in going to grad school for microbiology, but taking a gap year or so to work first. I'm particularly interested in the ecology and evolution of microbial symbioses, especially those that involve fungi.

I love collecting and identifying fungi as a hobby, but outside of classes I haven't had much experience with microscopy. I'd like to learn more about microscopy in general, identifying fungal structures, and lichen identification (which is pretty new to me!)

I'm trying to read and learn more about compound microscopes before buying anything; there's a lot of information out there, but this forum seems like a great resource! I was wondering whether looking for local sellers is a good idea. I'm in the NYC metro area and found this shop (https://microscopestorenyc.com) which is selling used and "fully serviced" Olympus and Nikon compound microscopes for $500. Is anyone familiar with this shop? Is this a reasonable price for used compound scopes?

Looking forward to learning from you all!

Nin

PeteM
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Location: N. California

Re: Newbie interested in mycology

#2 Post by PeteM » Thu May 06, 2021 3:14 am

Happy to send you a copy of a guide to various microscope brands and models - once you have enough posts to send a message. Could help you read up on something you might find locally.

$500 would be a terrific deal on something like an Olympus BHS with SPlan objectives, a good deal on a BHTU with DPlan objectives, and a poor deal on something like a CH-2 with short-barrel objectives.

apochronaut
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Re: Newbie interested in mycology

#3 Post by apochronaut » Thu May 06, 2021 1:43 pm

Mycology is very demanding of the microscope. So much of i.d'ing in mycology comes down to very subtle differences in gill structure, spore prints and ultimately very fine details of the spores themselves. You will need two microscopes. A stereo for perusing the gross details and a very good Bright Field and or Phase contrast microscope, the resolution of which you can rely on. Fungal spores are very small, as minimal as 2 microns and when one is logging details at that size, many achromat optics just aren't good enough.
Choosing a microscope by brand is foolhardy and naive. It is usually a method of choice by people who haven't been around microscopes for very long. They see names like Nikon, Olympus , Zeiss, Leica and assume that these are the best. They are only the best if they are good, healthy examples of them and well known brands are just as subject to abuse and breakage as any other microscope is. Those are all good microscope brands but at the optical quality level you need, you cannot afford them because their notoriety and the demand placed on the supply of good used ones, makes them expensive. Any microscope made by any brand above a certain category can be excellent, depending on the individual condition and the features it was fitted with.

For a stereo, you can get by with one of up to about 40X magnification but one feature you probably could use for gross anatomical examination is a wide flat field : at least a 20mm f.o.v. This rules out some older stereos but most can do that or close. A zoom type is most common but there are several with magnification changers that are very good if you are on a budget. You might also consider one on a boom arm, if you have the room. Many fungi are large or colonial and being able to hover over a larger intact specimen rather than place fragments on a stage is a huge plus . The pod is removeable and can be slipped into a standard base for regular incident or transmitted illumination. Many brands have those features available. You buy by feature not who made it. Search : stereo, boom, articulating, zoom, 4:1, 4X, transmitted base. Add in the name of a known brand if you wish but do not search by brand alone.

Your compound microscope will be the one that you will use for critical i.d.'s based on spore characteristics. Over 95% of compound microscopes are achromatic. Higher up the ladder in colour correction and therefore higher in clarity and resolution are fluorite and then apochromat optics. In the case of microscopes made after about 1995, buying into fluorite or apochromat optics can be prohibitively expensive, especially if you zero in on the famous brands. If you look towards an older scope, late 60's into the 80's, maybe even nudging the 90's you can likely find a very close to if not equal to 21st century quality microscope with critical fluorite or apochromat high magnification immersion optics around your 500.00 price point. The key is to search for the optics, not the brand. You may have to give up a small f.o.v. ...maybe 18mm for instance but when searching for details on 2 to 6 micron spores, you won't even notice any f.o.v. shortfall.

A word about Chinese or Indian microscopes. All of them have achromat optics up to about the 1500.00 price tag and some of them not very good achromat optics. While they do mfg. fluorite and apochromat objectives, the most modest 4 objective well colour corrected set available is over 1000.00 alone. Buying the objectives individually from multiple sources, you can get the price down to around 600.00, with half of it going to the 100X 1.30 planF. So, buying into better colour corrected budget optics is still expensive.

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75RR
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Re: Newbie interested in mycology

#4 Post by 75RR » Thu May 06, 2021 9:24 pm

Is anyone familiar with this shop? Is this a reasonable price for used compound scopes?
You did well to ask. None of them are reasonably priced!


Nothing wrong with a brand name, they are well regarded for a reason. You do however have to get to know which models are which, as not all are created equal. Student microscopes for example.


It should be noted that some used microscopes are clearly in bad condition - and these, even if from a well known brand, should be avoided.


You should read up as much as you can on each brand and their models.

See links below to several manuals:

http://www.alanwood.net/olympus/downloads.html

http://www.science-info.net/docs/zeiss/

http://earth2geologists.net/Microscopes/LeitzScopes.htm

https://user.xmission.com/~psneeley/Per ... oscope.htm


If you find something you consider tempting do ask here before buying - it could save you money.
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)

apochronaut
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Re: Newbie interested in mycology

#5 Post by apochronaut » Fri May 07, 2021 3:14 am

Of course there is nothing wrong with brand names but the attachment to them and obsession with them can waste a lot of money needlesly, money that could be used for needed supplies , add accessories to build a better system or just buy a better system outright. Second hand big 4 microscopes, except certain models such as Labophots and some older Zeiss and Leitz are way overpriced. Three quarters of their value is for smoke and mirrors.
I have put an entire 5 objective infinity corrected microscope together with 2 planachros, 3 planfluorites and a trinocular head for about the same amount of money as it would cost to purchase one Olympus plan fluor objective . For the cost of 2 objectives I have put together a 6 objective planfluor/planachro trinocular system with BF and oil immersion DF. I would defy anyone looking through the eyepieces and not knowing what brand microscope they were using to be able to tell what brand it actually was.

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