DIC Prism Design

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microb
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DIC Prism Design

#1 Post by microb » Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:15 am

I'm going to take a look at the following as a possible reference on DIC prism design. If anyone else is knowledgeable, please let me know:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20010040723A1

abednego1995
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Re: DIC Prism Design

#2 Post by abednego1995 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:49 am

Excellent reference, the original document by Nomarski is rather cryptic (my French is horrible.) Kusaka describes the essence of prism design in the patent.
One thing worth noting is Fig.7A-8. The shear amount is physically dictated by the wedge angle alpha (as in Fig.3), and the focal length of the objective
and condenser to be used. Whereas the interference plane location can be controlled by the crystal axis angle beta (Fig.4) and ALSO how much tilt is induced
to the prism itself (theta, in Fig.7B).

This is actually how Nikon controls the interference plane location on their current reflective DIC system. Probably one has wondered how they managed to
use only one prism for all their objectives :-)

If you need equations to determine the alpha, and beta angles go find it in Vol2 of Advanced Light Microscopy by Maksymilian Pluta.
It's excellent.

BR,
John

Scarodactyl
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Re: DIC Prism Design

#3 Post by Scarodactyl » Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:20 am

abednego1995 wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:49 am
This is actually how Nikon controls the interference plane location on their current reflective DIC system. Probably one has wondered how they managed to
use only one prism for all their objectives :-)
Not to mention DIC on their zooming AZ100 macroscope. I am still impressed that is possible.

microb
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Re: DIC Prism Design

#4 Post by microb » Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:53 am

abednego1995 wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:49 am
If you need equations to determine the alpha, and beta angles go find it in Vol2 of Advanced Light Microscopy by Maksymilian Pluta.
I'll try to keep looking for that book, but if you have the equations, please let me know. I can't even do an interlibrary loan as the libraries are closed for a while.

Thanks,
Ted

viktor j nilsson
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Re: DIC Prism Design

#5 Post by viktor j nilsson » Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:06 pm

Excellent reference, highly appreciated! I've spent a couple evenings reading it through. It has given me a lot of ideas on how to further improve my own DIY DIC project (I am slowly build a DIY DIC system using two identical Nikon Epi DIC "10x40x100x" prisms). I was not aware that it was possible to alter the location of the interference fringe by tilting the Nomarski prism.

I believe that this is going to be extremely useful for my purposes: the interference fringe of my objective prism matches the BFP of my 10x and 20x objectives almost perfectly when placed as close to the objective as I can easily get it, but physical constraints have made it hard for me to move the prism close enough to "reach" the BFP's of my 40x and 60x objectives. But according to my quick back-of-the-envelope calculations, I could get the interference fringe where it needs to be for the 40x and 60x by tilting the prism ~8* and ~11* (degrees), respectively. I'm going to try this out soon.

abednego1995 wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:49 am
Whereas the interference plane location can be controlled by the crystal axis angle beta (Fig.4) and ALSO how much tilt is induced
to the prism itself (theta, in Fig.7B).

This is actually how Nikon controls the interference plane location on their current reflective DIC system. Probably one has wondered how they managed to
use only one prism for all their objectives :-)
John, do you have any idea how large the angle theta can be before it starts to seriously degrades image quality? In theory I could move the default position of the objevtive prism even higher up than it is now, which could help me get DIC with my 4x objectives as well. However, this would require a rather large angle theta of 22* when using my 60x planapo. I have a feeling that this might be too much.

Another idea I got from the patent was from Figure 21A and B, where they flip the prism upside down in order to accomodate low-power objectives with BFPs located far above the objective. I still haven't quite understood the ray tracing in this figure, but the idea is appealing and should be easy to test empirically.

Flipping the prism could allow me to keep the prism in the position which is ideal for 10x and 20x (with theta=0) but still get DIC to work with 4x (upside down, maybe also tilted) and 40x/60x (tilted). Will be fun to test.

Again, thanks to microb for this excellent reference.

viktor j nilsson
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Re: DIC Prism Design

#6 Post by viktor j nilsson » Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:49 pm

microb,

this preprint might be interesting to you as you continue to collect data on DIC prisms designs:
https://arxiv.org/abs/1810.04271

They empirically measured the shear angles of three Nikon prisms:
Shear angle.JPG
Shear angle.JPG (23.35 KiB) Viewed 8469 times
I'm not very familiar with Nikon's infinity systems but it seems like these ones for the Eclipse series:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nikon-Microsco ... 3973740207
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nikon-Microsco ... 3769313216

Found them in a Nikon price list from 2012: https://manualzz.com/doc/25024655/nikon ... price-list
Pricelist.JPG
Pricelist.JPG (143.19 KiB) Viewed 8469 times
Seems strange to me that Nikon would just add some flimsy stickers that can be peeled off to such expensive items!

Anyway, not sure why the Arxiv paper hasn't been published, maybe there is something wrong with it. Might still be interesting to you.

urbanpiper3
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Re: DIC Prism Design

#7 Post by urbanpiper3 » Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:02 am

Hello!

Thanks for all the great discussion works on DIC Prism Design. I am having trouble getting a soft-copy/ hard copy from my local libraries. Can someone share the DIC design chapters from Advanced Light Microscopy, Vol. 2 (Specialised Methods). By Maksymilian Pluta ??

Or any other articles/ textbooks that shows how to derive the α and β parameters to a obtain a given shear angle and shear amount from a Nomarski prism?

Question: in the case of a reflected light DIC, there is no condenser lens, so a Nomarski prism is used. In that case, how does it affect the shear angles and shear amount?

Cheers!
Mucho gracias -
James Blackwood

Scarodactyl
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Re: DIC Prism Design

#8 Post by Scarodactyl » Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:00 am

There is a condenser, that being the objective itself. It'a very symmetrical that way.

Boguslaw
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Re: DIC Prism Design

#9 Post by Boguslaw » Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:42 pm

Hello.
A friend has (had?) All three volumes. However, he was supposed to sell them and I don't know if he still has them?
I will write to him and ask if he will scan this fragment.
Attachments
Advancet Light Microscopy 1-3.jpg
Advancet Light Microscopy 1-3.jpg (61.82 KiB) Viewed 7026 times

tpruuden
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Re: DIC Prism Design

#10 Post by tpruuden » Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:42 am

Maybe bit off-subject but it may still be interesting to look for alternatives of classical Wollaston/Nomarski configurations to achieve the necessary interference properties:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-17589-4
https://opg.optica.org/oe/fulltext.cfm? ... &id=296150

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josmann
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Re: DIC Prism Design

#11 Post by josmann » Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:23 am

Boguslaw wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:42 pm
Hello.
A friend has (had?) All three volumes. However, he was supposed to sell them and I don't know if he still has them?
I will write to him and ask if he will scan this fragment.
My goodness, that’s a stack of gold there. I’d be willing to pay to get them digitized if he is willing to loan them out. There’s a book scanning shop not far from where I live.
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tpruuden
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Re: DIC Prism Design

#12 Post by tpruuden » Sat Jan 29, 2022 8:34 am

Boguslaw wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:42 pm
A friend has (had?) All three volumes. However, he was supposed to sell them and I don't know if he still has them?
If your friend wants to sell the books anyway, just refer him here - I would be interested in buying.

tpruuden
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Re: DIC Prism Design

#13 Post by tpruuden » Sat Feb 12, 2022 2:03 pm

The third volume seems to be available in digital format, has anyone found the second and first in digital?

JMC
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Re: DIC Prism Design

#14 Post by JMC » Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:05 am

There is a set of all three of Pluta's books for sale on ebay at the moment;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Advanced-Lig ... 5162950937

I have no affiliation with the seller other than having bought from him before (and it was a good transaction).

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woyjwjl
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Re: DIC Prism Design

#15 Post by woyjwjl » Wed Apr 27, 2022 3:12 am

Have a hunch of what will happen here. Leave a mark :idea:
Micrographers from China, thanks to the forum for providing a platform for exchange

tpruuden
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Re: DIC Prism Design

#16 Post by tpruuden » Mon May 02, 2022 1:50 am

Noticed it too late, already bought. If someone here got them and is planning to scan - the third volume is already scanned, available here:
https://openlibrary.org/books/OL1669033 ... microscopy
and also as pdf.

Boguslaw
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Re: DIC Prism Design

#17 Post by Boguslaw » Sun May 29, 2022 12:02 pm

Hello again everyone :-)
I'm sorry I didn't speak, but I was sick and had an operation :-(
I sold these sets "Advanced Light Microscopy vol. 1, 2, 3 M. Pluta 1988, 1989, 1993" on behalf of my friend who temporarily lives in the USA and sent them to Poland.
I have one more full set, but it is promised and put aside for some retired professor from England.

On the other hand, a friend now sends me two "Advanced Light Microscopy vol. 2 M. Pluta1989".
When they arrive, I have to list them on eBay for PLN 600-700 for 1 item.

Regards,
Boguslaw

Delamington_lens
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Re: DIC Prism Design

#18 Post by Delamington_lens » Sat Oct 21, 2023 7:46 pm

Boguslaw wrote:
Sun May 29, 2022 12:02 pm

On the other hand, a friend now sends me two "Advanced Light Microscopy vol. 2 M. Pluta1989".
When they arrive, I have to list them on eBay for PLN 600-700 for 1 item.
Did you end up receiving and onselling those?

PM'd you

tpruuden
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Re: DIC Prism Design

#19 Post by tpruuden » Mon Nov 06, 2023 4:37 am

I missed one auction on Ebay for all 3 volumes, have not seeked actively for the 2-nd and 1-st after that. I believe there is already scan for vol. 1 and 2 but not available in public archives.
Delamington_lens wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2023 7:46 pm
Boguslaw wrote:
Sun May 29, 2022 12:02 pm

On the other hand, a friend now sends me two "Advanced Light Microscopy vol. 2 M. Pluta1989".
When they arrive, I have to list them on eBay for PLN 600-700 for 1 item.
Did you end up receiving and onselling those?

PM'd you

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