Aligning Zeiss Standard trinocular head

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MikeBradley
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Aligning Zeiss Standard trinocular head

#1 Post by MikeBradley » Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:43 am

I'm trying to align a trinoc head from my Zeiss Standard GFL. One of the oculars is out of alignment laterally by approximately half a field of view (4x objective, 10x ocular). The camera tube and the other ocular are well aligned. Where I could find instructions on how to repair this and how difficult a task it might be?
Thanks
Michael
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Re: Aligning Zeiss Standard trinocular head

#2 Post by jjcook » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:36 am

Hi Michael,

Check out Ron Green's guide to Bincoluar Collimation: https://archive.org/details/APracticalG ... 8/mode/2up
- Jeff

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Re: Aligning Zeiss Standard trinocular head

#3 Post by Hobbyst46 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:53 am

jjcook wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:36 am
Hi Michael,

Check out Ron Green's guide to Bincoluar Collimation: https://archive.org/details/APracticalG ... 8/mode/2up
Thanks for posting this valuable source of information !

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Re: Aligning Zeiss Standard trinocular head

#4 Post by MikeBradley » Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:23 pm

Thanks Jeff and Doron for the reference. I did have a look at the guide from Ron Green but he only describes techniques to apply to ensure that everything is aligned. I also need to know how to actually make the internal adjustments and whether I need specialist tools to do them. Any pointers would be most welcome.
Thanks
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Re: Aligning Zeiss Standard trinocular head

#5 Post by 75RR » Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:33 pm

I'm trying to align a trinoc head from my Zeiss Standard GFL.
Can you post a photo of the trinocular and if possible of the view through the eyepiece
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Re: Aligning Zeiss Standard trinocular head

#6 Post by PeteM » Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:36 pm

Half a field of view is pretty far off - and suggests a mirror or prism has been knocked out of its mounting. You'll likely have to venture inside and see.

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Re: Aligning Zeiss Standard trinocular head

#7 Post by Element 56 » Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:34 pm

Was there an incident that you are aware of that knocked it out? It sounds pretty bad which may indicate an easy or obvious fix. I am not familiar with this particular Zeiss head but very often the first thing to look at and adjust (once you've decided you have no other choice) is the eyepiece tubes. Are you sure you need to go after a prism?'

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Re: Aligning Zeiss Standard trinocular head

#8 Post by MikeBradley » Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:53 am

Thanks everyone. Yes the offset between the FOVs is rather large. almost 1.5 mm. I took a couple of images today to illustrate this. I purchased the head online and it arrived by mail but I didn't check the alignment then. But since then it hasn't suffered any knocks. Photos of the head are attached also.
Thanks for any info on next steps.
Michael
Attachments
IMG_2265.jpg
IMG_2265.jpg (108.99 KiB) Viewed 6467 times
IMG_2268.jpg
IMG_2268.jpg (143.29 KiB) Viewed 6467 times
Trinoc1.jpg
Trinoc1.jpg (33.55 KiB) Viewed 6467 times
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Re: Aligning Zeiss Standard trinocular head

#9 Post by 75RR » Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:41 am

Here is an older thread on opening a Zeiss Jentsch binocular head

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2068&p=16305&hilit=cobwebs#p16305
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Re: Aligning Zeiss Standard trinocular head

#10 Post by Hobbyst46 » Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:11 am

The point encircled with red (if not an optical/illumination artifact) seems to be a bend, probably due to a severe knock. If so, could certainly cause misalignment (and much more damage)...
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Re: Aligning Zeiss Standard trinocular head

#11 Post by MikeBradley » Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:43 pm

Good eyesight Hobbyist46, fortunately it was only an artifact (dirt). However when I opened the head the left prism shows minor damage at both top corners, there are matching light scratches on the inside surface of the casing. So I know why the misalignment exists and that the prism damage is minor. The visible glue bond between the side of the prism and the holder has been broken on both sides and the prism can be moved laterally in a way that seems to realign the original glue bond. I could try realigning the original glue bond in a trial and error way, but what is the recommended way to proceed at this point? Thanks,
Michael
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Re: Aligning Zeiss Standard trinocular head

#12 Post by PeteM » Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:56 pm

Given how far off it was, I thought that might be the problem.

Others will have more experience with Zeiss heads, but that doesn't look like a Zeiss OEM glue job based on the one Zeiss head I've opened up. From appearances, could be what you have is a polyurethane glue (Gorilla glue etc) which expands (not needed) but isn't all the strong. Anyhow -- could be it was knocked, replaced, and knocked loose again?

You want to note the original position of the prism with fine witness marks. Perhaps pencil on the prism's paint, a scratch on the mounting. If I'm right (others may recognize what is /is not a Zeiss glue job) you may have a bit of trouble figuring exactly where it goes.

I've used a scalpel to remove traces of the old glue from the glass and the mount. IPA (not the tasty type) to get rid of any oil or other residue. Then carefully applied adhesive to get in back in place. Some other threads have suggested types. Let it cure. Clean off any fingerprints, as may happen. Reassemble. It will likely be a bit off, but then you can use the Zeiss adjustment screws to tweak the tubes into alignment.

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Re: Aligning Zeiss Standard trinocular head

#13 Post by MikeBradley » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:10 am

Just a thought, would it be possible to replace the bino parts in the trinocular head for the equivalent parts from an undamaged binocular head? The microscope originally had such a head and I think I can retrieve it.
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Re: Aligning Zeiss Standard trinocular head

#14 Post by MikeBradley » Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:52 am

I answered ny own question, the answer is no. What was probably obvious to many, the ocular parts of a CZ Standard bino head cannot be used to replace the equivalent parts in a trinoc.
duh!
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Re: Aligning Zeiss Standard trinocular head

#15 Post by MikeBradley » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:24 am

I checked for any evidence of the original position but didn't find any, only the cracked "non-standard glue" from the last repair job. By placing a temporary thin wooden shim behind it, the prism is now secured firmly in the holder and the offset between the eyepieces has been reduced from 1.45 mm to 0.9 mm, good progress. The left image seems brighter too. Do I now have to loosen the 3 screws securing the prism holder and move it?

I tried doing this carefully but despite fully loosening the screws the holder didn't want to move and I was reluctant to apply too much force.

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Re: Aligning Zeiss Standard trinocular head

#16 Post by 75RR » Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:28 am

MikeBradley wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:24 am
Do I now have to loosen the 3 screws securing the prism holder and move it?
I tried doing this carefully but despite fully loosening the screws the holder didn't want to move and I was reluctant to apply too much force.
Perhaps some more photos of what you are trying to do?

Have you checked that Ron Green's collimation instructions are not enough to compensate for the 0.9mm?
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Re: Aligning Zeiss Standard trinocular head

#17 Post by MikeBradley » Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:05 am

75RR, I did try to use the collimation procedure shown in Ron Greens guide for this head but I was not successful. The guide suggests that collimation involves "Slacken screws and slide eyepiece tube into collimation", but the 3 screws only loosened the eyepiece tube from the bar, there is no lateral "sliding" movement possible. Only minor adjustment is possible, taking advantage of the difference between the diameter of the 3 holes and the width of the 3 screws, not enough to take up the remaining offset between the objectives. (Photo)

The only significant adjustment I have been able to make so far was by shimming the prism and that's what makes me think that this is where the adjustment will need to made. The prism is now flush with the side of its holder and won't move any further. (Photo) Is it possible to slide the holder itself or to tilt the prism?

Does anyone know a source for an detailed diagram of the parts in one of these heads?

Thanks everyone

Michael
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Re: Aligning Zeiss Standard trinocular head

#18 Post by PeteM » Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:39 am

If you're close with the standard alignment process, you could open up the screw holes a bit. You might lose some planarity at the edges of the field - and some of the field if you go too far have WF eyepieces - but that still beats no microscope head.

Your camera probably has a straight shot to the stage, so you're not sacrificing image quality - just the quality at the edges of the view.

A new/used replacement off Ebay etc. is, of course, another fix.

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Re: Aligning Zeiss Standard trinocular head

#19 Post by MikeBradley » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:50 pm

Pete,thanks for the ideas. I tried sliding the eyepiece tube sideways after removing the screws and the required offset would clip a large part of the FOV. The photo tube is collimated perfectly with the right eyepiece and so the head is useable for viewing and imaging, just not as a bino. so all is not lost!

I'm not going to give up on the repair job just yet though, it must have been collimated at some time!

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Re: Aligning Zeiss Standard trinocular head

#20 Post by Zeiss mensch » Sat May 21, 2022 9:52 pm

definitely not Zeiss repair work. They do not use such adhesives, especially on the older GFL reflective optics. Vapors from the solvents can degrade the reflective surface's thin film of cupper as well as the other enamel black enamel coatings used. nd other coatings.. I have the same inclined binocular with the photo tube. Upon opening to clean off dust that had settled I saw how the edges around the mirror coating had begun to degrade at the edges. Another binocular head I have has a small coating spot on the prism's backside and unreachable. Luckily it doesn't show up as its not in the plane of focus.

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