Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

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Fred F
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Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#1 Post by Fred F » Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:52 am

Greetings:
Last spring I purchased a Leitz Orthoplan (non functional) from Ebay for spare parts (602A Phase condenser/quintuple turret/ 1x dovetail objective holder/6X GW eyepieces/ etc..etc..)
the 1x was stuck in the frame due to the set screw sheared broken off. I was able to drill and use a LH thread screw extractor to remove unit.
there was reported no image through the eyepiece but simply shifting the mirror assembly offered images.
the 602a was frozen but I was able to slowly work that free.
5 objectives untested.
lamp assemby functional
Focus coarse not completely frozen but not worth shearing something
Focus fine free wheeling (no indexed stops)
After 6 months of Covid isolation and Oregon wildfires (one road from evacuation in September) I decided to investigate . Judicious use of Naptha initially started freeing up the coarse knob. Actualy made progress of full smooth multiple rotation then is simpy seized.
It acted like a plastic part had become swollen in the mechanism.
So
1. am willing to investigate and do an autopsy on the focus block understanding it probably is mortally wounded. Any one have guidelines procedures for disassambly or have knowledge of why Naptha would frieze up the mechanism?
2. I have become enamored of the WF scope... my AO10 is functional but no where the same image quality.
3. Looking for best approach to locate a functional focus block for Orthoplan? I know .... hen's teeth.... but I have patience to wait and see what the best path would be.
thanks for any info you can offer
fred in Oregon..

MichaelG.
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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#2 Post by MichaelG. » Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:31 am

.

Great project, Fred ... even if it was forced upon you

I would be very interested to see your ‘Autopsy’

For what it’s worth [and unfortunately a little late] ... I have found ‘PlusGas Formula A’ dismantling fluid to be very effective on hardened Leitz greases and, being Kereosene based, it is ‘Mostly Harmless’

MichaelG.

.
https://www.plusgas.co.uk/history/#
Too many 'projects'

PrecisionInstruments
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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#3 Post by PrecisionInstruments » Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:31 am

The Orthoplan focus is extremely complex, rebuilding is something that takes lengths of training and supervising to become comfortable with.

To remove the focus block, which is the Z-axis liner bear block along with coarse/fine focus system, there are 4x 3mm hex head screws.

Removing this block will cause the stage and condenser to become out of collimating. A factory collimator would usually be used to adjust back into collimation upon assembly. The only other way to do this without the factory collimator is to use Kohler Illumination, unless you rig up some laser point with target and mirrors.

If you raise the raise the focus block all the way up, and with the stage off, you will access two of the 3mm hex heads through holes in the front of the block either side, which are about 10mm in.

The other two are up the top of the block, focus needs to be lowered now. Though, these two will loosen ‘wedges’ either side behind the block, they are there to adjust the distance the focus block sits from the frame (thicker part of the wedge tilts the stage and condenser forward, thinner part allows it to tilt back). Which is where the collimation is important.

Removing the four flat pan head screw & reflected lamp house panel front the rear of the stage will allow you to place the wedges back in place, and manoeuvre them upward and downwards independently from each other to regain collimation upon assembly.

Having removed the four 3mm hex heads from the front of the focus block will allow you remove it from the stand and observe the magic in which the creators have made.

A full rebuild of that assembly alone take a good 4hours by someone that has them aced!! Good fun though!
I have a headache, For which the future’s made

Element 56
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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#4 Post by Element 56 » Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:09 pm

You probably softened the grease temporarily and when the solvent evaporated it seized. That's my guess anyway. There is a plastics gear inside (page 16 #9 in yellow) but I doubt it swelled.

http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/art ... _Ver_4.pdf

If or when you take it apart there is a lot of pieces you will need to keep track of. I always take photos and sometimes drawings or things I haven't worked on before. The Orthoplan is brilliantly made not difficult to disassemble or reassemble however as already stated it does require some knowhow to realign everything. It sounds like you don't have much of a choice at this point but you may consider trying the solvent again and follow with a penetrating lubricant before digging in. Let it work in and don't force anything. Also don't over do it. Less is more especially when messing with different greases and penetrating oils that weren't meant to be where you need to put them.

You could try to find another focus block on eBay but you will still have the same alignment issues. If you have to take it apart you can probably make the instrument usable with little trouble and it will at least be better that something you can't use at all. I've had mine apart twice and I'm considering doing it again. I didn't like the lubricant I used the first time and the type a used the second time is just okay. I'll get it right one of these days!

Anyway if you search around here and on the photography forum you will find lots of threads that talk about these and probably most of your questions will be answered reading through them.

Good Luck!
Kirby

Fred F
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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#5 Post by Fred F » Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:55 am

Many thanks for the comments. You offered sage advice and warnings. I am not overly enthusiastic about that disassembly process but I am thinking this would be a winter project that might result in gaining a moderately useable scope. Some more questions.
1. I sm using Naptha (Ronsonol) as the solvent. Is there a better choice for a hobbyist to use? I saw the referenced Plusgas from UK but it looks like it is going to deliver mid January from Amazon.
2. I have Tri-Flow penetrating lubricant- again opinions on what best to use?
3. Are there reputable service providers that will rebuild (recognizing it might be prohibitive cost). However I presently have access to a functioning Orthoplan in addition to my AO10 and have become covetous of the WF view and optical quality of the Lietz....
4.I had previouslypoured over the Overney article that was linked and while I like the information contained- however, it is not a service manual like I would prefer....
5. Any recommendations for manufacturers and types of instrument handtools to use on a microscope? I would prefer NOT to scar screw heads or damage setscrew by using the wrong tool quality.
My interest is in mycology and in species identification and image documentation. Mainly bright field work and 400x and 1000x for spore identification down to 4-6 um
I will attempt to upload some images from my AO10/Nikon J1 in the photograph section.

Input greatly appreciated.... stay safe and well
fred

PrecisionInstruments
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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#6 Post by PrecisionInstruments » Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:35 am

Hi Fred,
Regarding lubricants, I use only what the factory suggest. One of the original lubricants used is actually still available being Kluber Nontrop KR 291 (Leitz called it 410), it goes green and hard over time. I have to order it by the Kg, though that may due to my local distributor.

Only a fraction of old Leica tech’s (or someone lucky to have been trained by one, like myself) would know how to rebuild these systems. A local Leica service centre may still have the knowledge, though you’d have to be pretty damn lucky.
Below I will upload some pictures of notes I took during my apprenticeship. It may help, but I can guarantee the system will not work afterwards. No harm intended at all, but there’s a lot of feel that is required that can’t be noted down.

All my tools are PB Swiss Tools. Again, something the factory use. I will never get anything different as they are great.

For the sake of knowledge, if I were to rebuild the focus block assembly of an Orthoplan/Ortholux II, my service charge would be AUD$1,500. An expensive exercise, though one that I very time consuming. Extremely satisfying as well.
I have a headache, For which the future’s made

PrecisionInstruments
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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#7 Post by PrecisionInstruments » Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:54 am

F1.jpg
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I have a headache, For which the future’s made

Fred F
Posts: 16
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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#8 Post by Fred F » Fri Dec 25, 2020 2:28 am

Apologies for the slow response, I can only thank Precision Instruments (name unknown) for your time and effort sharing your Leitz focus block notes and for your cautious warning that you offer. I thank Kirby for his advise but it doesn't seem to be more direct and have less complexity as the specific instructions in dissassembly.
I would first like to address several questions to you about your Dec 8 post concerning removal of the focus block from the unit.
1. four 3mm hexheads accessed by high/low positioning of the focus block. OK.
- Are the wedges setup as opposing inclined wedge set pair?
- are the wedges centered on the focus range or are they captured by the upper 3mm
- Are there only two wedges (sets) in the system?
- is it feasible to mark/view/measure offset of wedge sets for reassembly?
- based on your tilt description - Is the collimation issue a results in a FOCUS issue due to the variable distance to objective lens based upon location of viewed object?

The disassembly of the focus block is going to have me cogitate the implications of failure well into January.
Best to you all and many thanks for those helpful comments!
fred

PrecisionInstruments
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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#9 Post by PrecisionInstruments » Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:24 am

Not a problem

The wedges are captured by the upper 3mm hex bolts. They can be lowered or raised which will tilt the stage and condenser block back or forwards.

If they aren’t set correct, not only will your stage be on an angle, but the condenser will also push the light path away from the centre optical axis.

Without the factory collimator, the only way to return the focus block to the correct position is to set Kohler illumination before disassembly, and rerun it to Kohler after reassembly. Make sure that the condenser centring screws are not moved when removing the stage/condenser.

Apologies if this is unclear, I have not recovered 100% from yesterday’s festivities.

Merry Christmas
I have a headache, For which the future’s made

Leitzcycler
Posts: 254
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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#10 Post by Leitzcycler » Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:01 am

Thank you so much for valuable information. I saved all these instruction for future and hope I would never need it.

What is the construction of a collimator? Is it possible to build it at home? Could e.g. a laser pointer used for this purpose?

MichaelG.
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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#11 Post by MichaelG. » Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:27 am

Leitzcycler wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:01 am
Thank you so much for valuable information. I saved all these instruction for future
.

+1 from me

... That’s very generous of you, PrecisionInstruments

MichaelG.
Too many 'projects'

Element 56
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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#12 Post by Element 56 » Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:26 pm

I want to add a few things to PrecisionInstruments excelent post.

First someone asked about the proper tools to work on microscopes and I wanted to share this kit I bought a few years ago. It's definitely an economy set but still worth the money. The blades are properly ground to fit the slot on the head of the type of screws used on microscopes and firearms. I use my set heavily on both firearms and microscopes and I have yet to break a bit but I did bend one. In my experience there's no substitute for quality tools and I've never regretted paying up for them. I grew up using Snap-On in the auto industry and I abhor anything from Harbor Freight, however, for what it is this set did not disappoint.
https://www.wheelertools.com/gunsmithin ... 62194.html

Below is a photo of something I printed out a while ago and had sitting in my shop. I intended to make this tool but still haven't gotten around to it. It is used to set up an Orthoplan after servicing and I'm sure it will work with others. I believe it screws into the nosepiece and that you would raise the stage close it the bottom of tool then check the gap between it and the stage with a feeler gage to confirm alignment. At least this is my assumption, however, looking at the photo it is not immediately obvious how it would attach to the nosepiece. I would expect to see a set of external RMS threads but maybe there's more to it than shown. I tried contacting the name on the business card for more info but I never got a reply. Anyway it's not hard to imagine how to make one that would thread into the nosepiece.

The screw with the little pins is what I made to remove the fine focus knobs shown in PrecisionInstruments drawling's. I think it's pretty self explanatory for those who have removed them. I use two different length pins as I work the knob off so I'm not pulling on just a few threads at a time. The idea for this came from the same site as the other tool.
Kirby
IMG_26122020_094619_(600_x_800_pixel).jpg
IMG_26122020_094619_(600_x_800_pixel).jpg (87.84 KiB) Viewed 10493 times

MichaelG.
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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#13 Post by MichaelG. » Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:42 pm

Kirby

Looking at the photograph here: http://science-info.net/pages/Arthur_Ro ... rLevel.jpg

I suspect that the knurled ring is a protective cover for a male RMS screw-thread on the stem of the tool.

MichaelG.
.

Edit: suspicion confirmed: http://couger.org/microscope/Roseoptics ... l-tool.pdf
... it’s mentioned here: http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/art ... _Ver_4.pdf
Too many 'projects'

Element 56
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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#14 Post by Element 56 » Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:25 pm

MichaelG. wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:42 pm
Kirby

Looking at the photograph here: http://science-info.net/pages/Arthur_Ro ... rLevel.jpg

I suspect that the knurled ring is a protective cover for a male RMS screw-thread on the stem of the tool.

MichaelG.
.

Edit: suspicion confirmed: http://couger.org/microscope/Roseoptics ... l-tool.pdf
... it’s mentioned here: http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/art ... _Ver_4.pdf
Thank you Michael! Your link tells the whole story!
Regards,
Kirby

Fred F
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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#15 Post by Fred F » Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:35 am

small world...
Arthur (Roseoptics) tuned up my AO10 ten years ago and sold me a AO Cycloptic binocular dissecting scope around the same time!
Last time I was in touch with him was in the mid teens!
Good guy..
I need to bone up on the Kohler illumination. I use Kohler to insure proper illumination of the specimen. I am a bit lost as to see how to use Kohler illumination in order to establish proper centricity and accurate orthogonal alignment. ( although use of the centering adjustments seems feasible to prevent off axis alignment .... I do fail to see how to use Kohler illumination for orthogonal alignment unless one moves substage to bring iris into focus and use that image to align). but I ramble and probably blowing smoke....
I need to be comfortable in establishing a method to bring focus block into concentrity and orthogonal alignment prior to me touching any 3mm screws and wedges..
Many thanks for the patience and informative postings!
fred

Fred F
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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#16 Post by Fred F » Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:14 pm

In December I ordered the Plusgas dismantling lubricant from across the pond... it arrived last week and Monday I decided to see if the coarse adjustment was frozen or something more dramatic had occurred.
Going somewhat blind as to the best flow I applied the lubricant to to exposed pin bearings expose in casting and along the railslides between the dovetail focus block and the fixed block to the frame. Also to the center opening withe the visible brass pin and less around the Coarse adjsustment wheels.
three rounds of lubricant coupled with 15-20 minutes on a Wagner heat gun @ 240 I observed a slight give when I applied firm rotational pressure equally on both corarse adjust. I applied another heat session and attempted to rotate.
I heard a crack/snap sorta like hard shellac snapping (or worse....) and the dovetail block moved about and 1/8" inch stiffly but freely Spent the the 10 minutes with heatgun and back and forth rotation to free the block.
Of course it is too lubricated now but that is another issue to be resolved andother day.
What I was always concerned with was did I make a bad purchase by spending $480 on an Orthoplan with
-stuck nose piece frozen in stand
-broken/missing nosepiece set screw (Root of above problem that the set screw got sheared off while threads still engaged
-frozen 402a phase contrast condenser
-frozen coarse adjust on focus block.
Last night I was able to view specimen through brightfield 40,250,400
and Phase contrast 2 (40x phaco)
Having issues with the Nikon 60x and haven't gotten around to attempting the 1000x
bought some 10XGW oculars (came with 6.3 peripan)
it is a start... gotta ways to go..at least it is no longer a boat anchor....
fred

Element 56
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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#17 Post by Element 56 » Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:45 am

Fred,

Your story scared me when you said you heard a cracking noise. There's a plastic gear in those but it sounds like it's okay if you have it working.

No you didn't buy a boat anchor. What you have is the norm for that and many other vintage instruments especially in that price range.

CRC contact cleaner might loosen up the iris if you unscrew it and pull it out of the bottom. They aren't bad to remove.

Another handy trick for freeing up tight parts is to get a good penetrating lubricant and spray some in a small container. Suck the oil into a syringe (I use glass) with a long needle and apply in small amounts wherever it's needed. Let it sit a while and work it a little bit every now and then. With patients you can save yourself a lot of work doing it this way. I'm using something called LPS and I really like it. However I don't know if that would have worked on your focus block. Those are tough on Orthoplans.

Kirby

Fred F
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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#18 Post by Fred F » Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:27 pm

Kirby:
thanks for the comments
Yes... I would rather not relive that moment. In hindsight I should have tripled the heat and lubrication cycles but that is in the past now...
As for the condition of the plastic gear it will have to wait until the focus block is removed to inspect and lubricate the system (in the future after getting an alignment fixture built) . It may very well have evidence of some damage but presently the focus rail can be positioned throughout the range and both coarse and fine adjustment are functional.
fred

Fred F
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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#19 Post by Fred F » Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:34 pm

I ended that last post without asking the question.
Considering the chemistry age of the Lietz lubricant with it's tendency for polymerization was the heat cycle of 240-250 F for 30 minutes aggregate of any use? Or given the state of the lubricant that it is unaffected by heat?
Am interested in knowing whether heat gun is a viable approach.
fred

Element 56
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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#20 Post by Element 56 » Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:34 pm

Fred,

I don't know if the heat really did much but it's definitely not the first thing I would try. My experience with applying heat to sized parts always involved a lot more heat on a less sensitive subject.

In the case with an Orthoplan or Diavert I would probably always just go straight to disassembly. I understand the alignment concerns but if you take it apart now and completely overhaul it the worst case is a usable instrument that may be slightly off. If you get to a point down the road where you have a better understanding of the alignment process and have the necessary tools to do it, you can proceed with it at that time. I understand not everyone argees with my logic but to them I would say what good is the instrument now? If you're forcing things to get it working you could end up with more than an alignment issue at which point you will need replacement parts and you will still need to align it.

Kirby

Fred F
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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#21 Post by Fred F » Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:01 pm

agreed
looking to get a machinist to fab up the threaded alignment plate...that would take care of theta... still thinking about concentricity alignment..

Element 56
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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#22 Post by Element 56 » Sat Feb 06, 2021 4:35 pm

Eyeball it! :mrgreen:

Fred F
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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#23 Post by Fred F » Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:34 am

Followed the "eyeball it" strategy on aligning the focus block. maintained shim location and used the field iris stopped down to confirm alignment, Have been able to take images in brightfield, phase contrast, dark field
Not bad for parts Leitz...
Last item to address is Trinocular alignment due to have double images..Any recommended strategies?

I will post most of the pictures in the photo area but here is the link for the Gyromitra I photographed through a Nikon 1

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmV2u8L7
should be gyromitra photos

Element 56
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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#24 Post by Element 56 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:03 pm

Fred F wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:34 am
Followed the "eyeball it" strategy on aligning the focus block. maintained shim location and used the field iris stopped down to confirm alignment, Have been able to take images in brightfield, phase contrast, dark field
Not bad for parts Leitz...
Last item to address is Trinocular alignment due to have double images..Any recommended strategies?

I will post most of the pictures in the photo area but here is the link for the Gyromitra I photographed through a Nikon 1

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmV2u8L7
should be gyromitra photos

Fred,
I've been out of touch for a while and I just now saw your post. So you're getting a good image through the eyepiece but not through the trinocular? That would having nothing to do with the focus block alignment it sounds more like an issue with whatever optics your using to produce the image or some other alignment issue in the tube. Have you figured anything out since posting this?
Kirby

Fred F
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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#25 Post by Fred F » Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:49 pm

Kirby:
The issue was misalignment of the oculars.
Gregg on the io group pointed out that the 4 screws holding the ocular tube could be loosened to attain coincident image. DId that and the image coincided
He also brought up a good way for focus block alignment using a 4x objective. bring objective down to stage..no light showing then coplanar.. any light shows angle and vector.
I don't think that process will take care of theta (stage planar but not orthogonal to stand) since when stage micrometer is used the image is a few degrees rotated- I believe I placed the shims back on the wrong bolt... correcting this seems to be an iterative process that I am refraining from while I take photos..
take care and thanks for the response.
fred

Element 56
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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#26 Post by Element 56 » Wed May 26, 2021 4:44 pm

Fred F wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:49 pm
Kirby:
The issue was misalignment of the oculars.
Gregg on the io group pointed out that the 4 screws holding the ocular tube could be loosened to attain coincident image. DId that and the image coincided
He also brought up a good way for focus block alignment using a 4x objective. bring objective down to stage..no light showing then coplanar.. any light shows angle and vector.
I don't think that process will take care of theta (stage planar but not orthogonal to stand) since when stage micrometer is used the image is a few degrees rotated- I believe I placed the shims back on the wrong bolt... correcting this seems to be an iterative process that I am refraining from while I take photos..
take care and thanks for the response.
fred
Hi Fred,

Glad you got it part way worked out. The idea with the 4x sounds like a good way to things set up quickly.

Regarding the stage, I think the slide holder screws can be loosened and kind of persuaded in one direction or the other before retightening them. That may make up for a little bit of an offset. I'm not in front of mine so I cant confirm that this is true but it might help a little.

All the best my friend,
Kirby

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Re: Leitz Orthoplan focus block disassembly docuemtation

#27 Post by bill2penn » Mon Jan 23, 2023 9:10 pm

Hi Fred,
I'm late to the show but I wanted to ask if you are happy with the way you rebuilt and relubed the Orthoplan focus block. Do you have any advice for someone thinking of doing it also. I've got 3 Orthoplan stands and one Metaloplan stand (I'm a sick collector!) that could use a good relube of the focus block. The one estimate I received from a Leitz guy on the East Coast was $1200 to do it (just for one of them)!! I'm toying with the idea that it may pay for me to buy the tools, correct lube and collimator to do the job the right way and then go into business!
Bill
http://diatomsamples.weebly.com
Leitz Orthoplan and Ortholux (and many others....)

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