Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

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Sir
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Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#1 Post by Sir » Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:37 pm

I know know... another thread about a Chinese microscope :roll:

I'm aware that for the price of these microscopes I can get something much more substantial second-hand, but for logistical reasons I've narrowed down my search for a new microscope between two Motic microscopes, and I'd appreciate some input in helping me decide between the two. My options are:

1. Motic BA310E
2. Motic Panthera CC
(Note: on the website you can click "add to compare" for a side by side comparison of the two)

I plan on using this to make videos with a mirrorless camera, so I've opted for a trinocular. The difference between the two trinoculars is that the BA310E has the option of a 100:0/0:100 or 100:0/20:80 light split, and the CC has a fixed 50:50 light split. I'm fairly confident I can accomplish my goal with either type, though I do plan on making a lot of darkfield videos, which may just give the BA310E the edge here. It's also well documented on YouTube how these perform, whereas the newer Panthera models that claim to have Ultra High Contrast "UC" objectives have almost no video examples. However, I did contact Motic support who were kind enough to share this comparison of the objectives. Certainly a noticeable difference, but I'm not sure how much of that is just marketing magic on their end :lol:

Both scopes are more or less the same price for me. The newer model (CC) has a few more bells and whistles, but the older model (BA310E) has a well documented track record. So that just leaves the question. If you had to pick between the two, which would you go with and why?

Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you.

Hobbyst46
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#2 Post by Hobbyst46 » Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:31 pm

A very slight (IMHO) advantage of the 40X UC objective. For darkfield, a lot of light is needed. A 30W halogen or 3W LED on the 310 model does not sound extremely bright.
On the other hand, the Panthera specs boast full Kohler illumination. That would be an advantage. My own preference would be against 50:50 division of the light intensity.

MicroBob
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#3 Post by MicroBob » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:04 pm

The difference between the trino heads might actually be important. When you chase plancton life it is important to have an image splitter, which both have. For photography it is good to use a lot of light for low ISO settings and short exposures and the light in the eyepieces should not blind you. So a 20:80 setting would be nice. For dark field you might need all light you can get and 100 or 80% would be better than 50%. The 50% trino would also give a somewhat higher risk that bright room light influences the image the camera takes.

He is using a Motic 310 and the results should make him happy: https://www.tv2nord.dk/mikroliv-i-nordj ... acc#player

For his great video quality he uses an ilabcam-Adapter and Iphone.
So this could be an alternative too and save the money for the trino head

Bob

fero
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#4 Post by fero » Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:48 pm

Look like BA310 is very capable microscope. I am also looking for a microscope for photography. What I am wondering is how he can achive dark background - do you thinki it is dark field or just some filters/patterns?

PeteM
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#5 Post by PeteM » Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:39 pm

To add to the above -

- Both scopes claim full Kohler illumination.

- The larger 22mm field number is a plus on the newer model.

- One wonders how well the "rackless" fine focus in the newer model will work for focus stacking?

- I suspect Motic would sell you the newer model with a 20/80 split trinocular.

PeteM
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#6 Post by PeteM » Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:41 pm

MicroBob wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:04 pm
. . .

He is using a Motic 310 and the results should make him happy: https://www.tv2nord.dk/mikroliv-i-nordj ... acc#player . . .

Bob
Spectacular images, Bob. Thanks for providing the link.

That design of the cell phone holder was originally specific (if memory serves) to the iPhone 6. Anyone know if there are other versions?

It did seem that a few of the images were using DIC - not available on that Motic? Perhaps Rheinberg on a few of the others.

viktor j nilsson
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#7 Post by viktor j nilsson » Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:45 pm

PeteM wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:41 pm
MicroBob wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:04 pm
. . .

He is using a Motic 310 and the results should make him happy: https://www.tv2nord.dk/mikroliv-i-nordj ... acc#player . . .

Bob
Spectacular images, Bob. Thanks for providing the link.

That design of the cell phone holder was originally specific (if memory serves) to the iPhone 6. Anyone know if there are other versions?

It did seem that a few of the images were using DIC - not available on that Motic? Perhaps Rheinberg on a few of the others.
Martin doesn't have DIC. He uses a technique he calls 'pseudo-DIC' by which he means setting up the scope for darkfield and placing a diffusing material between the condenser top lens and the slide. Quite effective.

PeteM
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#8 Post by PeteM » Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:13 pm

Thanks, Viktor.

MicroBob
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#9 Post by MicroBob » Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:51 am

Here is the contrast technique described that he uses - obviously worth a try! His images have more a 3-dimensional look than the optical sectioning effect of DIC. For plancton life his setup may very well be better auited than DIC, why not?

Here the LabCam adapter types can be seen, move mouse on left image and click on quick shop: https://www.ilabcam.com/collections/lab ... labcam-pro
Apparently the company's main activity is pathology imaging technique where they make complete scans on slides with a partner company that makes the microscope steering software.
I think this combination of optics and electonics has a lot of future.
For a smartphone adapter the price if very high but it includes a lens system to get a better connection between Microscope eyepiece and smartphone wide-angle camera. It really would be interesting to look closer in what optics are needed in this place and whether they can be sourced for an acceptable price. The holder itself can be 3D-printed or made with the fret saw from a piece of plywood.

Bob

Sir
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#10 Post by Sir » Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:20 pm

Thank you all for your valuable insights. I've decided to go with the BA310E myself. The CC may be newer, but that does not always mean better (although I'm sure it's a very capable scope). The great track record and the light split option sold me on the BA310E in the end.

Now I just need to work on my slide preparation and imaging techniques. Hopefully with some persistence I can come close to the quality that Martin is able to achieve. Those videos are absolutely brilliant!

Sona
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#11 Post by Sona » Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:25 pm

I think it's more or less your personal preference. The specifications on these two are more or less the same

micromaniac
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#12 Post by micromaniac » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:47 am

hi, you should go for the Panthera, new is better in this case. check the comparison images between the EC plan objectives of the BA series and the newer UC objectives of Panthera for both normal and PH-c versions here:

https://www.mikroskopie.de/?page_id=1779

it is in german so you need to click on "BEISPIELBILDER"
you can see the difference is quite remarkable

also note that the Panthera has a 22 viewing field giving you a much larger observable area to look at

regarding the 50/50 split, this is a common thing also with many other brands, i doubt that a manufacturer would at this price range compensate on a few W to destroy the product experience.
Even the high end POL versions have the same wattage and fixed split, so i am thinking this may be a bit of a "homemade" issue...

hope this can help you in your decision

Scarodactyl
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#13 Post by Scarodactyl » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:56 am

Those pictures look odd to me. Do you work for this seller?

micromaniac
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#14 Post by micromaniac » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:51 am

i don't - why do you find them odd?

deBult
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#15 Post by deBult » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:22 am

Motic builds scopes and optics for the “large” names.

Christian (the German Motic and Zeiss seller the link is referring to) has a good reputation in guiding his customers.

Scarodactyl
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#16 Post by Scarodactyl » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:22 am

There just seems to be to be way too large of a contrast in image quality. Generally the differences between older and newer similarly-specced objectives tend to be more subtle. This isn't even achro vs fluorite, or old vs new, it's new vs slightly less new (by microscopy standards). Maybe you'd see a big contrast in 'super cheap achro' vs 'decent to top achro' but if both are by Motic they ought to both be quite decent, at least that's my impression of the brand. It's easy for other variables to creep in when trying to make this kind of comparison (I say, having just gotten a nice crop of useless photos this evening for my own attempted comparison) which makes me wonder about it.

Pardon my suspicion, we just had a weird situstion where a new poster come in shilling an (unrelated) dealer a couple weeks back. With your first post being on a month old thread with a link to a commercial site it seemed like a question worth asking.

micromaniac
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#17 Post by micromaniac » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:51 am

no worries, it did sound a bit as if I were advertising, didn't it?

I am looking for a microscope and I am considering the Panthera now which is why I found this thread to which I meant to contribute the conclusions and information I found.

Regarding your suspicion regarding the images, I don't see why a reputable seller who offers both systems would purposely make one less good than it is (or the other better), given the possibility of other factors but it seems that both images were made 'side by side' so I trust the information.

Sir
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#18 Post by Sir » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:08 am

I shared the same comparison in my original post, they were direct from Motic, and I was a little suspicious myself with the differences being so stark. Either way, I ended up ordering the BA310E already. Only downside is Motic said it won't be delivered till MAY!!! :(

Scarodactyl
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#19 Post by Scarodactyl » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:23 am

Well, if you end up with a desire to upgrade you can always stalk eBay for deals on Olympus uis objectives which should be compatible. Deals on fluorites and apos do pop up every now and again.

Sir
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#20 Post by Sir » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:16 pm

Scarodactyl wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:23 am
Well, if you end up with a desire to upgrade you can always stalk eBay for deals on Olympus uis objectives which should be compatible. Deals on fluorites and apos do pop up every now and again.
Honestly had no idea that I could use other brand objectives. That sounds very appealing, especially if I could find some fluors or apos. Are there any drawbacks I should be aware of, or any way to know for sure if an objective would be compatible?

micromaniac
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#21 Post by micromaniac » Thu Feb 25, 2021 4:09 am

Sir wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:08 am
I shared the same comparison in my original post, they were direct from Motic, and I was a little suspicious myself with the differences being so stark. Either way, I ended up ordering the BA310E already. Only downside is Motic said it won't be delivered till MAY!!! :(
pardon me, I missed your original link... yes, same pictures...

wow that is a long waiting time indeed, enjoy your new microscope when it arrives!

micromaniac
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#22 Post by micromaniac » Thu Feb 25, 2021 4:10 am

Scarodactyl wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:23 am
Well, if you end up with a desire to upgrade you can always stalk eBay for deals on Olympus uis objectives which should be compatible. Deals on fluorites and apos do pop up every now and again.
are you sure that this is possible?

Scarodactyl
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#23 Post by Scarodactyl » Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:13 am

Should be. Motic's infinity scopes are based on Olympus's infinity optical system, with a 180mm reference focal length, 45mm parfocal distance and rms threads. It's probably at least not far off.

mulberryfortune
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#24 Post by mulberryfortune » Sun May 30, 2021 10:38 pm

I am also choosing between the BA310 and Panthera CC. I am currently leaning towards the Panthera CC because of the the 22mm eyepiece, and also for the encoded nose wheel. What did you end up choosing in the end? Does anyone have experience of the Panthera CC and can share ?

Sir
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#25 Post by Sir » Mon May 31, 2021 9:13 am

mulberryfortune wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 10:38 pm
What did you end up choosing in the end?
I did end up getting the BA310E, which arrived a few weeks ago. Overall, I'm very satisfied. The LED illumination really is plentiful, so I suspect the light split on the Panthera will be great too. I'd love to get some Apo or Fluor objectives in the future, but I'll be looking at the second hand market for that. I'd like to think their Panthera line is better or at least just as good so I'm sure you'll be happy with whichever one you choose. That being said, my AmScope T490b (which I sold) was probably 75% as good as my Motic in terms of optical quality, and about 1/4th the cost. Still very much worth the upgrade for me though.

Here's a video of an amoeba I took a few days ago with my 310:


farnsy
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#26 Post by farnsy » Mon May 31, 2021 6:36 pm

Congratulations on your new scope! I've been interested in the higher-end Motic scopes for some time, so this was a really interesting discussion. Be sure to let us know of any unexpected plusses or minuses.

smollerthings
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#27 Post by smollerthings » Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:19 pm

MicroBob wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:51 am
Here is the contrast technique described that he uses - obviously worth a try! His images have more a 3-dimensional look than the optical sectioning effect of DIC. For plancton life his setup may very well be better auited than DIC, why not?
Is there somewhere I can find a tutorial for this technique?

smollerthings
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#28 Post by smollerthings » Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:25 pm

MicroBob wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:04 pm
He is using a Motic 310 and the results should make him happy: https://www.tv2nord.dk/mikroliv-i-nordj ... acc#player
Do you know if there is an english sub for that show? Thanks!

MicroBob
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#29 Post by MicroBob » Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:10 pm

smollerthings wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:19 pm
MicroBob wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:51 am
Here is the contrast technique described that he uses - obviously worth a try! His images have more a 3-dimensional look than the optical sectioning effect of DIC. For plancton life his setup may very well be better auited than DIC, why not?
Is there somewhere I can find a tutorial for this technique?
Back then I found a couple of PDFs where he described this technique among many other things. But I wasn't able to find them again, sorry.

smollerthings
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Re: Need help deciding between Motic BA310E & Panthera CC

#30 Post by smollerthings » Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:10 am

Thanks for checking! Do you remember broadly what he did to get that effect?

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