Buy stereo microscope watchmaker

Everything relating to microscopy hardware: Objectives, eyepieces, lamps and more.
Post Reply
Message
Author
Josi
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:23 am

Buy stereo microscope watchmaker

#1 Post by Josi » Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:22 am

Hello, I'm a hobby watchmaker and I have just started to repair watches and film it while working (link to YouTube below) . My problem now is that an eye loupe is not enough. I need to see if all mechanical parts is in good condition, check for dirt and lubricate them with precision.

So I really need a stereo microscope to continue my work.

My workbench is height adjustable and i got plenty of room. I have a desk lamp also with 3 lightning pipes. And roof lamp is at around 100 w.

List of stereo microscope specification needs :
1. Working distance of 100 mm+, would also be great if its possible to mount auxiliary lens 0,5x to increase distance more.

2. With lowest magnification around 30 mm field of view. Magnification can be from around 5-40x.

3. The table the scope stands on needs to be pretty flat, a boom stand would be best but can start with an orindary scope stand that sits on the table.

4. Would be great if its a trinocular. I would like to have the option in the future to film thru the scope when i work on watches via an usb camera.

5. As I understand a new premium scope is very expensive so a used one but from a company that has service and refurbished it would be nice (if a new one fits the budget of course it can be new) . Also if you know any similar kind of business that sells scope on ebay. Want to buy the scope in EU.

Budget around 1000 euro. Can go above if its really a must.

Youtube below, in this i filmed with Sony A7s, sigma 70 mm. A scope with some really close shots would be great to add to the video.



/Josef, Sweden 🇸🇪

jfiresto
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:19 am
Location: Northern Germany

Re: Buy stereo microscope watchmaker

#2 Post by jfiresto » Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:04 am

Have you seen this page? Its author is in the U.S. and so recommends microscopes that are plentiful there. My father, a retired geologist/materials scientist, has been quite happy with his Nikon SMZ-2T, the trinocular version of the -2B the watchmaker suggests.
-John

User avatar
HowardHopkinson
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:24 pm

Re: Buy stereo microscope watchmaker

#3 Post by HowardHopkinson » Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:53 am

An Amscope SM-1TSZ-V203 stereo microscope is what I use and think it would be ideal for what you're looking for. It magnifies from 3.5X to 90X and has a zoom control and a trinocular port. It comes with a 0.5 barlow lens as well as a 2x barlow lens that can be changed as required. It isn't too expensive either, I got it brand new at £222.54 including free shipping.
Swift SW380T compound microscope.
Swiftcam 18MP SC1803R camera.
Amscope SM-1TSZ-V203 stereo microscope.

Josi
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:23 am

Re: Buy stereo microscope watchmaker

#4 Post by Josi » Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:17 am

jfiresto wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:04 am
Have you seen this page? Its author is in the U.S. and so recommends microscopes that are plentiful there. My father, a retired geologist/materials scientist, has been quite happy with his Nikon SMZ-2T, the trinocular version of the -2B the watchmaker suggests.
This was a very good link and got some useful info on other stuffs also, thank you. :)

I will look more into smz-2t. Is it possible to mount a c-mount usb camera on this or do you have to buy a special adapter?

Do you know any shop in eu or uk that sells these in refurbished condition? Shops or ebay-shops? I want the condition of the scope to be perfect.

jfiresto
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:19 am
Location: Northern Germany

Re: Buy stereo microscope watchmaker

#5 Post by jfiresto » Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:13 pm

Josi wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:17 am
This was a very good link and got some useful info on other stuffs also, thank you. :)
You are welcome. I know very little about watchmaking, but the fellow who created that site seems like a man of helpful, practical wisdom.
I will look more into smz-2t. Is it possible to mount a c-mount usb camera on this or do you have to buy a special adapter?
My father has a video camera for it, on a c-mount, so it should be simple to substitute a mirrorless camera using a thread adapter. We will try that with a micro four thirds Olympus the next time I visit.
Do you know any shop in eu or uk that sells these in refurbished condition? Shops or ebay-shops? I want the condition of the scope to be perfect.
The SMZ-2T is less common on this side of the Atlantic. The last ebay.de auction for one was last year. I would not limit yourself to just that model: the 2T is one of many good microscopes from that era. Like buying a used car, it is much more important to find one that was looked after and in good shape. A refurbished scope from a dealer might be around 1000 euros. You can get cheaper candidates off ebay, but it can be hit and miss buying getting a good one. A lot of people do not know what they are selling. You have to be patient or willing to clean or refurbish things yourself, or pay someone to do that.

An older "big four" (Leica/Wild, Nikon, Olympus, Zeiss) microscope like the 2T is more for people who want a good, long term investment. The one in front of me has been in use, now, for four decades, and will like give many more decades of good service after I am gone. I would probably get a Chinese "stencil" microscope, like the one above, if you want a good, easy to buy, inexpensive solution for the short- to medium-term. Anyway, just my two cents worth.
-John

Josi
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:23 am

Re: Buy stereo microscope watchmaker

#6 Post by Josi » Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:01 pm

jfiresto wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:13 pm
Josi wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:17 am
This was a very good link and got some useful info on other stuffs also, thank you. :)
You are welcome. I know very little about watchmaking, but the fellow who created that site seems like a man of helpful, practical wisdom.
I will look more into smz-2t. Is it possible to mount a c-mount usb camera on this or do you have to buy a special adapter?
My father has a video camera for it, on a c-mount, so it should be simple to substitute a mirrorless camera using a thread adapter. We will try that with a micro four thirds Olympus the next time I visit.
Do you know any shop in eu or uk that sells these in refurbished condition? Shops or ebay-shops? I want the condition of the scope to be perfect.
The SMZ-2T is less common on this side of the Atlantic. The last ebay.de auction for one was last year. I would not limit yourself to just that model: the 2T is one of many good microscopes from that era. Like buying a used car, it is much more important to find one that was looked after and in good shape. A refurbished scope from a dealer might be around 1000 euros. You can get cheaper candidates off ebay, but it can be hit and miss buying getting a good one. A lot of people do not know what they are selling. You have to be patient or willing to clean or refurbish things yourself, or pay someone to do that.

An older "big four" (Leica/Wild, Nikon, Olympus, Zeiss) microscope like the 2T is more for people who want a good, long term investment. The one in front of me has been in use, now, for four decades, and will like give many more decades of good service after I am gone. I would probably get a Chinese "stencil" microscope, like the one above, if you want a good, easy to buy, inexpensive solution for the short- to medium-term. Anyway, just my two cents worth.
Yes i was thinking around 1000 euro to get a very good refurbished one. Do you know any particular home pages in EU that sells used scopes or any serious ebay dealer?

I really want a quality one, I agree with you on that.

PeteM
Posts: 2983
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:22 am
Location: N. California

Re: Buy stereo microscope watchmaker

#7 Post by PeteM » Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:56 pm

In addition to the four stereo microscopes in jfresto's link (all of which I've used), another good / affordable choice might be a Meiji EMZ trinocular with its 23mm field of view (at 10x) eyepieces.

The B&L 7 is one you need to be careful of - while it has very good resolution and an amazing-for-it's-time zoom range, half the examples I've seen have been out of alignment, lost tracking due to dried grease and years of use in the zoom mechanism, or were so fouled with something like soldering fumes that the image was cloudy and lacked contrast. I wouldn't buy one you couldn't see or easily return. A B&L Stereozoom 4 (a 4x range) is another option - and likely a wide enough zoom range and often equipped with a boom stand.

In addition to the AO 570 in that link, an AO 580 with a .5x supplemental might be even better. With 10x eyepieces it would give you 5x to 30x - probably just about right for your work.

The Nikon listed above has an even wider field of view and, along with the Meiji EMZ, might be just right. Those two could be found (in the US) in binocular versions for around $500 and somewhat more rarely and more costly in trinocular versions

The Olympus SZ-III zooms are another satisfactory choice and often affordable, at least in the US. These use a zoom ring (like the Nikon SMZ-2, not 2b) which might be a little less convenient than a side-knobs zoom for watch work?

"Scarodactyl" is one of our resident experts on even better scopes, should you happen upon one for under 1000 Euro. I think you'd be entirely happy, though, with something like the Nikon SMZ-1 or 2b or the Meiji EMZ trinocular zooms.

All of the above have supplemental objectives available.

Josi
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:23 am

Re: Buy stereo microscope watchmaker

#8 Post by Josi » Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:55 pm

PeteM wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:56 pm
In addition to the four stereo microscopes in jfresto's link (all of which I've used), another good / affordable choice might be a Meiji EMZ trinocular with its 23mm field of view (at 10x) eyepieces.

The B&L 7 is one you need to be careful of - while it has very good resolution and an amazing-for-it's-time zoom range, half the examples I've seen have been out of alignment, lost tracking due to dried grease and years of use in the zoom mechanism, or were so fouled with something like soldering fumes that the image was cloudy and lacked contrast. I wouldn't buy one you couldn't see or easily return. A B&L Stereozoom 4 (a 4x range) is another option - and likely a wide enough zoom range and often equipped with a boom stand.

In addition to the AO 570 in that link, an AO 580 with a .5x supplemental might be even better. With 10x eyepieces it would give you 5x to 30x - probably just about right for your work.

The Nikon listed above has an even wider field of view and, along with the Meiji EMZ, might be just right. Those two could be found (in the US) in binocular versions for around $500 and somewhat more rarely and more costly in trinocular versions

The Olympus SZ-III zooms are another satisfactory choice and often affordable, at least in the US. These use a zoom ring (like the Nikon SMZ-2, not 2b) which might be a little less convenient than a side-knobs zoom for watch work?

"Scarodactyl" is one of our resident experts on even better scopes, should you happen upon one for under 1000 Euro. I think you'd be entirely happy, though, with something like the Nikon SMZ-1 or 2b or the Meiji EMZ trinocular zooms.

All of the above have supplemental objectives available.
Great info thank you! Ill look up the new ones you recommended.

Josi
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:23 am

Re: Buy stereo microscope watchmaker

#9 Post by Josi » Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:25 am

Is also smz-10 a good option?

I will add auxiliary lens on all of them sometimes.

jfiresto
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:19 am
Location: Northern Germany

Re: Buy stereo microscope watchmaker

#10 Post by jfiresto » Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:33 pm

This thread has an old version of a list of used microscopes to buy and avoid, written by a company that services and sells them. The SMZ-10 is on the buy list.

The SMZ-10 is a Common Main Objective microscope, the other popular design that has just that, rather than the two, smaller objectives you find in Greenough design microscopes like those the watchmaker lists and demonstrates on his website. Nikon has a nice introduction to stereo microscopes that explains the advantages and disadvantages of each. CMO microscopes show varying degrees of lateral chromatic aberration which can be a dealbreaker for some. It appears around sharp contrasts and characteristically gets stronger toward the sides of the field of view.

Here is an image I captured with a CMO microscope through the glass back of a watch at 20X power (the watchmaker's favorite) to show you what I mean.
mainspring.jpg
mainspring.jpg (127.79 KiB) Viewed 8301 times
The lateral chromatic aberration appears as the blue and yellow fringing near the left side of the image. It is more a problem in photographs: the mind mostly filters it out (at least mine does) when you look through both eyepieces. You can see the LEDs of the ring light reflected off the central jewel.
-John

PeteM
Posts: 2983
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:22 am
Location: N. California

Re: Buy stereo microscope watchmaker

#11 Post by PeteM » Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:15 pm

The SMZ-10 is a well built scope with some unusual options - for example being able to switch the trinocular tube's camera view to either the left or right side. I have and like one.

However, unless you find a deal I think it's both overkill and not quite right for your application. At low magnifications, which you'll be using frequently, there is a sort of doming effect so that flat parts look slightly convex. This is often true of CMO microscopes, though greatly reduced (I'm told) in the even more expensive Nikon SMZ-10a, SMZ 800 etc.

Unless you find that deal, I'd suggest something like the Nikon zooms listed earlier above might actually do better for your work and at significantly lower cost. Those will be more compact, have a flatter field at low magnification, have a slightly easier-to-zoom zoom, and nearly as large a zoom ratio. The one thing the 10 might do for you is help painstakingly photograph stereo pairs, to take stereo-viewable pictures of (ever so slightly distorted looking) watch mechanisms.

Josi
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:23 am

Re: Buy stereo microscope watchmaker

#12 Post by Josi » Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:31 pm

jfiresto wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:33 pm
This thread has an old version of a list of used microscopes to buy and avoid, written by a company that services and sells them. The SMZ-10 is on the buy list.

The SMZ-10 is a Common Main Objective microscope, the other popular design that has just that, rather than the two, smaller objectives you find in Greenough design microscopes like those the watchmaker lists and demonstrates on his website. Nikon has a nice introduction to stereo microscopes that explains the advantages and disadvantages of each. CMO microscopes show varying degrees of lateral chromatic aberration which can be a dealbreaker for some. It appears around sharp contrasts and characteristically gets stronger toward the sides of the field of view.

Here is an image I captured with a CMO microscope through the glass back of a watch at 20X power (the watchmaker's favorite) to show you what I mean.

mainspring.jpg

The lateral chromatic aberration appears as the blue and yellow fringing near the left side of the image. It is more a problem in photographs: the mind mostly filters it out (at least mine does) when you look through both eyepieces. You can see the LEDs of the ring light reflected off the central jewel.
Great info, i have read it all now, thank you! Ill search for smz2b in EU first of all but maybe have to order from US. Trinocular seems rare so might skip it, to bad.

Josi
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:23 am

Re: Buy stereo microscope watchmaker

#13 Post by Josi » Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:34 pm

PeteM wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:15 pm
The one thing the 10 might do for you is help painstakingly photograph stereo pairs, to take stereo-viewable pictures of (ever so slightly distorted looking) watch mechanisms.
Thank you, what do you mean here?

jfiresto
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:19 am
Location: Northern Germany

Re: Buy stereo microscope watchmaker

#14 Post by jfiresto » Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:51 pm

Josi wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:31 pm
... Ill search for smz2b in EU first of all but maybe have to order from US. Trinocular seems rare so might skip it, too bad.
Trinocular microscopes are not that rare. I searched ebay.com for sold Nikon microscopes and got six SMZ-2Bs and six SMZ-2Ts. I think the issue is more that Nikon sold many more of these in the U.S.

On the other hand, you can later add a photo tube to a two-tube CMO microscope, but it is usually cheaper, overall, to buy a microscope that already has the photo tube attachment.
-John

PeteM
Posts: 2983
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:22 am
Location: N. California

Re: Buy stereo microscope watchmaker

#15 Post by PeteM » Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:30 pm

Josi wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:34 pm
PeteM wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:15 pm
The one thing the 10 might do for you is help painstakingly photograph stereo pairs, to take stereo-viewable pictures of (ever so slightly distorted looking) watch mechanisms.
Thank you, what do you mean here?
The typical stereo microscope with a trinocular tube -- when switched to the photo position -- "looks" down one side of the scope. It's predetermined by the maker. The Nikon has a switch to let the camera look down either the left or right side. So one has the option of taking photos of an object from both the left and right sides and creating a stereo pair. Or, just pick the single slightly different view they like best.

Josi
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:23 am

Re: Buy stereo microscope watchmaker

#16 Post by Josi » Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:58 pm

Well today suddenly a guy came up on a local page here in Sweden. He sold a B&L stereozoom4 for 200 euro with a heavy boom stand and fiber optical light. I took the risk and went to see the scoope, 10 min with car. Everything looked clean, the scope didnt have any scratches and looked to be in good condition. Image thru the scope looked fine,didnt know how to fully watch thru it.

So i bought the heavy thing and tested it at home, I understand now what the meaning of a picture in 3D means, it looks insane thru the scope. Great contrast and a whole watch movement can be seen thru the scope in 0,7x. I will adjust each eyes some Im sure about the picture but the whole picture seems to be in focus so i dont think any misalignment exist.

https://ibb.co/j8FLFGM

Scarodactyl
Posts: 2775
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:09 pm

Re: Buy stereo microscope watchmaker

#17 Post by Scarodactyl » Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:53 pm

That is a nice classic. I bought one for a jeweler friend back in thr before times. It should treat you well.

Josi
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:23 am

Re: Buy stereo microscope watchmaker

#18 Post by Josi » Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:58 pm

Thanks again for the help from all of you!

In action :)
Attachments
IMG_20210224_223023_150.jpg
IMG_20210224_223023_150.jpg (56.33 KiB) Viewed 7446 times
IMG_20210224_223023_043.jpg
IMG_20210224_223023_043.jpg (87.66 KiB) Viewed 7446 times

BramHuntingNematodes
Posts: 1538
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:29 am
Location: Georgia, USA

Re: Buy stereo microscope watchmaker

#19 Post by BramHuntingNematodes » Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:10 am

It's nice that stand is a real prize.
1942 Bausch and Lomb Series T Dynoptic, Custom Illumination

Josi
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:23 am

Re: Buy stereo microscope watchmaker

#20 Post by Josi » Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:20 pm

BramHuntingNematodes wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:10 am
It's nice that stand is a real prize.
Yeah, heavy and robust, it has very good adjustment wheels.

Josi
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:23 am

Re: Buy stereo microscope watchmaker

#21 Post by Josi » Sun May 16, 2021 7:40 pm

The B&L is working very good, in this video of me servicing a Certina watch i use my microscope with an mobile phone adapter, maybe its at 10 dollar from Amazon. Working very good. Hope you like.


MichaelG.
Posts: 3976
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:24 am
Location: North Wales

Re: Buy stereo microscope watchmaker

#22 Post by MichaelG. » Sun May 16, 2021 9:41 pm

Very impressive video [with real ‘work noises too, instead of irritating music], thanks

Looks like the ‘scope is ideal for what you are doing.

MichaelG.
Too many 'projects'

Post Reply