Spring loaded objective

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75RR
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Spring loaded objective

#1 Post by 75RR » Sat May 08, 2021 7:35 am

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Anyone ever open up a Zeiss 63x/1.4 Planapo?

It does not spring back as quickly as it should - would like to remedy that.
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MichaelG.
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Re: Spring loaded objective

#2 Post by MichaelG. » Sat May 08, 2021 8:58 am

It’s scrap ... feel free to post it to me for disposal
:lol: :lol:

MichaelG.
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But seriously ... Sorry, no experience of dismantling
Please tread carefully ... we love your images !!
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Edit: __ I expect that the engraved shroud will simply unscrew, exposing the spring and presumably some congealed lubricant on the bearing surface.

The section at Fig 3 here: http://zeiss-campus.magnet.fsu.edu/arti ... tives.html
might help, if you can find it at higher resolution.
Too many 'projects'

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Re: Spring loaded objective

#3 Post by Hobbyst46 » Sat May 08, 2021 9:24 am

MichaelG. wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 8:58 am
Edit: __ I expect that the engraved shroud will simply unscrew, exposing the spring and presumably some congealed lubricant on the bearing surface.
One by one I am trying to unscrew the shrouds on my Zeiss objectives, and the only one who yielded was the 16X0.40. It simply shows the longitudinal grove, a (locking ?) slot screw inside, and four tiny set screws nearer the front lens. No lubricant of any kind. I can try to lubricate as test, if an experienced member suggests it.

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mrsonchus
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Re: Spring loaded objective

#4 Post by mrsonchus » Sat May 08, 2021 10:13 am

May be no help but my Oly's spring-loaded objectives are dismantled (to the spring that is...) by unscrewing the back-stop which holds in the spring - then the body of the lens-pack just drops out whilst remaining completely intact - may be the same here?
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75RR
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Re: Spring loaded objective

#5 Post by 75RR » Sat May 08, 2021 10:44 am

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Thanks MichaelG., not scrap yet though I suspect if I start tinkering it soon might be ;)

Thanks Hobbyst46 , I have opened a dry Plan 40x. They seem quite different to the Oel Planapos.

Thanks mrsonchus, I can get at the spring from the back, just don't know what to do from there.
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Re: Spring loaded objective

#6 Post by mrsonchus » Sat May 08, 2021 12:58 pm

Hi, does the spring simply drop-out as my Oly's do? If so a simple solution, assuming that the lens-pack is sliding up and down freely, may be to pull the spring apart by perhaps 50-100% to give it a little more 'push'....
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75RR
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Re: Spring loaded objective

#7 Post by 75RR » Sat May 08, 2021 2:33 pm

mrsonchus wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 12:58 pm
Hi, does the spring simply drop-out as my Oly's do? If so a simple solution, assuming that the lens-pack is sliding up and down freely, may be to pull the spring apart by perhaps 50-100% to give it a little more 'push'....
That might work I suppose, assuming that is how springs work.

I have a 100x Planapo which works smoothly, swapped the springs around between it and the 63x and it still works as it should.

Be nice to have the 63x working as freely as the 100x.
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Re: Spring loaded objective

#8 Post by ImperatorRex » Sat May 08, 2021 2:45 pm

Hi 75RR,

photos for dismantling the Planapo 63/1,40:

https://www.mikroskopie-forum.de/index. ... ic=32250.0

Reference to Planapo 40/0,95 korr - maybe some coincidence?

https://mikroskopie-forum.at/lexicon/in ... eiss-west/

Hope it helps a bit.

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Re: Spring loaded objective

#9 Post by 75RR » Sat May 08, 2021 2:49 pm

ImperatorRex wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 2:45 pm
Hi 75RR,

photos for dismantling the Planapo 63/1,40:

https://www.mikroskopie-forum.de/index. ... ic=32250.0

Reference to Planapo 40/0,95 korr - maybe some coincidence?

https://mikroskopie-forum.at/lexicon/in ... eiss-west/

Hope it helps a bit.
Many thanks ImperatorRex! Just what I was hoping for :)
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Re: Spring loaded objective

#10 Post by ImperatorRex » Sat May 08, 2021 2:51 pm

Another one for the Plan 100/1,25. It is actually the same as for the 63/1,40
It also has a step by step description...


Step by step description:

The following example shows the dismantling of a Zeiss Planpos, 63 / 1.4 oil:

The first thing to do is to unscrew the outer sleeve with the engraving and the logo. The movable brass optics cup becomes visible. A thin slotted nut between this optics cup and the chrome-plated outer housing must now be unscrewed.

On the back of the RMS thread, unscrew the cover and remove the compression spring.
Since the spring is pretensioned, it must be carefully relieved when removing the cover.

After unscrewing the small screw in the L-shaped guide groove, the brass sleeve with the lenses can be removed from the outer housing:

Up to this dismantling stage, the optics as such remain untouched, nothing is misaligned.
After cleaning the guide surfaces and reapplying a suitable lubricant, the steps shown can be carried out backwards. The spring force should now be sufficient to let the lens cup rebound as far as it will go.

The continuation shows how the lenses are removed, if necessary.

https://www.mikroskopie-forum.de/index.php?topic=9432.0

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Re: Spring loaded objective

#11 Post by deBult » Sat May 08, 2021 3:08 pm

For your consideration: I cleaned a series of OLYMPUS spring loaded lenses and after cleaning the metal surfaces have NO lubrication applied: the metal on metal is smooth enough.

Zeiss may be a different matter though.

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Re: Spring loaded objective

#12 Post by 75RR » Sat May 08, 2021 3:38 pm

Up to this dismantling stage, the optics as such remain untouched, nothing is misaligned.
After cleaning the guide surfaces and reapplying a suitable lubricant, the steps shown can be carried out backwards. The spring force should now be sufficient to let the lens cup rebound as far as it will go.
That is the goal, would rather not mess with he lenses :)
For your consideration: I cleaned a series of OLYMPUS spring loaded lenses and after cleaning the metal surfaces have NO lubrication applied: the metal on metal is smooth enough.
Thanks, will see how without feels and then go from there.
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Re: Spring loaded objective

#13 Post by 75RR » Sat May 08, 2021 4:45 pm

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UPDATE:

Unable to remove the outer sleeve. Is there a trick to removing it?

Placed rubber bands on both parts and tried to turn by hand. No luck. Now the movement is stiffer than it was!
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Re: Spring loaded objective

#14 Post by ImperatorRex » Sat May 08, 2021 6:03 pm

Direction to open is left, like a screw. Unscrewing the rear panel cap using latex gloves, rubber stoppers or leather usually should work.
If none of this helps:
You need a flat surface for this (e.g. thicker glass plate, metal cube). You stick three on them layers of double-sided adhesive tape on top of one another, free of air bubbles, and allow the matter to evaporate for 24 hours. Now you place the stubborn aperture cap with firm pressure on the outer layer of adhesive tape and turn then the lens seen from above counterclockwise. At some point it will 'crack' and the cap can be unscrewed.

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Re: Spring loaded objective

#15 Post by ImperatorRex » Sat May 08, 2021 6:04 pm

Ups, you probabely mean the metal slevee not the black plastic ring?

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Re: Spring loaded objective

#16 Post by 75RR » Sat May 08, 2021 6:09 pm

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Yes, can't unscrew the outer sleeve with the writing and the logo on it. It won't move.

Am turning it anticlockwise viewed from on top.

Does taking it off break the oil seal?
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Re: Spring loaded objective

#17 Post by ImperatorRex » Sat May 08, 2021 6:30 pm

Hi 75RR,
anti clockwise is correct. Sometimes the inner fine thread has anti rotating glue.
I checked my Planapo 63 under the stereo. Yes there is a sealing at the sleeve to the front cone. You would need to break or remove it with a knife, screwdriver etc.

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Re: Spring loaded objective

#18 Post by 75RR » Sat May 08, 2021 6:37 pm

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Do you know how would one reseal it afterwards?
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Re: Spring loaded objective

#19 Post by ImperatorRex » Sat May 08, 2021 6:41 pm

You can use the transparent, two component glues that are comonly used to glue glas or metal.

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Re: Spring loaded objective

#20 Post by 75RR » Sat May 08, 2021 6:50 pm

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Did not realize this would entail breaking the oil seal.

If I had, I would have left it as is.
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Re: Spring loaded objective

#21 Post by apochronaut » Mon May 10, 2021 1:11 pm

I have had quite a few objectives of a similar or parallel design apart but not this very one. Still, the causes of a stuck or sticking cylinder have always been one of five possibilities at least that I have seen.

1) The machining is a bit rough or crude and there is/are sufficient points of friction on high spots berween the cylinder and piston so that the piston sticks. The areas of concern can usually be seen due to burnishing at those points. Usually a bit of further buffing solves the problem but one has to be careful that the mis-match doen't take one into #2.

2 ) where the problem is a sloppy fit and the problem is due to the piston cocking a bit sideways upon recoil.. 1 is usually distinguished from 2 by the fact that in 1 there is sticking during both depression and extension wheras in 2 it is most often only noticeable during extension.

3) Debris and dried oil is clogging the lip of the cylinder. This is easily seen and can often be cleaned out with a fine wire probe.

4) Oil has bypassed the seal and has dried in the interspace between the cylinder and piston, first slowing travel and eventually stopping it occasionally. If the spring is in the back of the objective it can sometimes be lengthened or replaced with a stiffer one to overcome the resistance temporarily but ultimately there is a leak and the problem will only get worse, sometimes creeping in through the travel guide/stop and getting in to the lens column.

5) Spring is crossed at the end or deformed causing it to stick. Depending on where the spring is, under a shroud or at the back, that can be an easy fix, if it is at the back under the diaphragm or a capture ring .


With your objective, I would wonder that the original problem was not caused by a bit of leakage, building up into the interspace over time. Breaking the seal will not have been that much of an issue then. Sometimes the seal is an oil resistant washer, sometimes a sealant. If it is a washer, adding a bit of sealant to the original washer will probably work on reassembly. A tiny bit of non gassing sealant or shellac. Shellac will gas but only for a few seconds since the solvent is very volatile.
If there was no gasket then the original sealant failed and needs renewing. It seems that low gassing silicone is a favourite these days.

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