Wild Heerbrugg M8 scraping noise on zoom

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wild2020
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:23 pm

Wild Heerbrugg M8 scraping noise on zoom

#1 Post by wild2020 » Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:22 am

I have a wild m8 it works perfectly but recently it's started making a scraping noise between 6x and 9x does anyone have any tips? I guess I will have to take it all apart as I don't want to use it in this state in case I am causing damage to it although it still does work perfectly.

any insight's most welcome

thanks

Scarodactyl
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Re: Wild Heerbrugg M8 scraping noise on zoom

#2 Post by Scarodactyl » Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:20 am

The mechanics of an m8 are pretty intuitive, don't be too afraid of opening it up. It kind of sounds like you might have something on the rails, maybe hardened grease. A little bit of relubing with turbine oil might be in order.

Rorschach
Posts: 334
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:44 am

Re: Wild Heerbrugg M8 scraping noise on zoom

#3 Post by Rorschach » Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:03 am

Scarodactyl wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:20 am
The mechanics of an m8 are pretty intuitive, don't be too afraid of opening it up. It kind of sounds like you might have something on the rails, maybe hardened grease. A little bit of relubing with turbine oil might be in order.
Which turbine oils are you using with good results? And are they available in Europe (assuming you are from NA)?

PrecisionInstruments
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Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 11:44 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Wild Heerbrugg M8 scraping noise on zoom

#4 Post by PrecisionInstruments » Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:48 pm

Original factory lubricant is
Kluber Isoflex Topas NB 5051
I have to buy in 1Kg tub due to location. Should be able to source smaller quantities if in Europe I would imagine.
Use sparingly
I have a headache, For which the future’s made

Rorschach
Posts: 334
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:44 am

Re: Wild Heerbrugg M8 scraping noise on zoom

#5 Post by Rorschach » Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:34 pm

PrecisionInstruments wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:48 pm
Original factory lubricant is
Kluber Isoflex Topas NB 5051
I have to buy in 1Kg tub due to location. Should be able to source smaller quantities if in Europe I would imagine.
Use sparingly
Thanks for the info. Was this lubricant used in all of the other Wild stereos as well, i.e. M7, M3 -series, M10 and M5A?

Would use of this lubricant be recommended when the parts in question are not pre-cleaned and are grubby with old lubricant? I mean if there's already scraping noises, would turbine oil treatment be better?

PeteM
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Location: N. California

Re: Wild Heerbrugg M8 scraping noise on zoom

#6 Post by PeteM » Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:39 pm

Here's some data on the above mentioned grease (thanks, PrecisionInstruments!). It does sound ideal for the application:

Kluber Isoflex Topas NB 5051

If you can't find it in an affordable size and replace it with something else, you'd want similar properties - a light grease, that resists aging, oxidation, and out-gassing. Unlike helicoid or damping greases -- you want something that's not viscous and "starts" and runs easily for small gears and sliding surfaces.

Best practice in swapping greases is to thoroughly clean off the old stuff since grease bases and thickeners are sometimes incompatible and stiffen up over time. Given the longevity of these Wild scopes, it's possible it was either never re-lubed or improperly re-lubed over time - contributing to the current problem?

An expedient is to clean things off, get rid of any hardened grease, and if things look pretty decent to add a drop or two of relatively pure (no or few additives oil). Starrett instrument oil is a relatively common and affordable example for small quantities. "Turbine oil" is often another example of a relative pure light oil. Note that any sulfur containing oil (as in some automotive oils with EP -- extreme pressure -- additives) is a no-no for anything with brass or bronze parts. And you'd likely want a proper light grease and not a light oil if doing a complete overhaul.

It could be that the OP's problem is gunk stuck at one of the sliding locations of the zoom (or perhaps higher in the head between some gear teeth). Clearing that and applying just the tiniest bit of oil (toothpick or dropper) might do the trick.

PrecisionInstruments
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Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Wild Heerbrugg M8 scraping noise on zoom

#7 Post by PrecisionInstruments » Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:15 am

Rorschach wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:34 pm
PrecisionInstruments wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:48 pm
Original factory lubricant is
Kluber Isoflex Topas NB 5051
I have to buy in 1Kg tub due to location. Should be able to source smaller quantities if in Europe I would imagine.
Use sparingly
Thanks for the info. Was this lubricant used in all of the other Wild stereos as well, i.e. M7, M3 -series, M10 and M5A?

Would use of this lubricant be recommended when the parts in question are not pre-cleaned and are grubby with old lubricant? I mean if there's already scraping noises, would turbine oil treatment be better?
Yes. It was also used for M3, M7 & M10. The M5 has a different construction being a magnification changer rather than magnification zoom. It is also used throughout the MZ series.

Only on the cam and guide rods though. The bushings of the zoom axis and zoom frame is a different lubricant, I have never worked out which I am afraid. By the time I had knowledge on how to dismantle the zoom body that far, the old lubricant was unrecognisable.

I would always clean the guide rods and cam before re-lubricating. They’re easily accessible.

I would assume the scraping noise you are experiencing is between the bushing of horizontal zoom axis shaft and zoom body. I have a lubricant which I use for this though I do not know it’s original code. Leica/Wild call it 501 paste (their own code), though it is a Losimol lubricant with a different code.
I have a headache, For which the future’s made

Rorschach
Posts: 334
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:44 am

Re: Wild Heerbrugg M8 scraping noise on zoom

#8 Post by Rorschach » Wed Jul 12, 2023 5:40 pm

I am resurrecting this old thread because I have spent a good part of the day trying to clean the zoom mechanism of a Wild M8. The zoom knobs were turning but there was no zoom action and nothing was moving inside.

It was relatively easy to open the zoom unit, though there were some problems with stuck screws (mainly the screw assembly that is used to secure the head to the zoom body).

Once opened, it was clear to see that the three rods on which the lens assemblies travel up and down were covered by brown gunk from old lubricants. I first used Ronsonol lighter fluid (applied on the cotton head of a long Q-tip type of cleaning aid) many times on all the rods, using many the Q-tips. I was able to remove most of the gunk but not all. Now I got the lens assemblies moving when zoom knobs were turned. But they were not moving smoothly, there was a significant delay after turning the knob and waiting for the springs to pull the assemblies back and forth. Also knob movement was really quite stiff at the low end of the zoom range.

Having run out of options on how to get further, I turned to the good old WD40. I sprayed some on the cotton tip of the Q-tip (well away from the scope!) and then rubbed it on all the sliding rods. An immediate improvement was observed. I went through the zoom range several times to make sure WD40 gets to all parts of the rods. Now I am going to let them sit for a while, then do a final clean with Ronsonol. Lastly I plan to relubricate the rods using my only (possibly) suitable option, Nye Rheolube 362HB. That should at least be more suitable for the application than my other two alternative which are Nye Nyogel 760G and Nyogel 767A. What's your take on my choice?

Any other steps that I should have done differently?

lightshape
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:47 pm

Re: Wild Heerbrugg M8 scraping noise on zoom

#9 Post by lightshape » Fri Jul 28, 2023 7:30 pm

I'd carefully try to remove any remaining grease and wd40 residue with petroleum ether or lighter fluid before relubricating.
wd40 is likely to kind of resinify after a short period.

I am using synthetic watch libricants from moebius.
For the rods i even switched from using grease to thin oil (Synt-HP-1300).
I found the rods hardly need any lubrication, at least as long as their surface / coating is still in good shape.
Only slightest drops just until everything runs smooth.
The service period might shorten this way, but if you are able to care for by yourself, i believe it's not really that big of a deal.

You've probably already came across the M8 service manual?

Rorschach
Posts: 334
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:44 am

Re: Wild Heerbrugg M8 scraping noise on zoom

#10 Post by Rorschach » Sat Jul 29, 2023 9:43 am

lightshape wrote:
Fri Jul 28, 2023 7:30 pm
I'd carefully try to remove any remaining grease and wd40 residue with petroleum ether or lighter fluid before relubricating.
wd40 is likely to kind of resinify after a short period.

I am using synthetic watch libricants from moebius.
For the rods i even switched from using grease to thin oil (Synt-HP-1300).
I found the rods hardly need any lubrication, at least as long as their surface / coating is still in good shape.
Only slightest drops just until everything runs smooth.
The service period might shorten this way, but if you are able to care for by yourself, i believe it's not really that big of a deal.

You've probably already came across the M8 service manual?
Yes, that is what I did with Ronsonol lighter fuel before re-lubricating with the Nye grease. The zoom mechanism seems to be operating great now.

Thanks for the tips on the lubricants, much appreciated!

Yeah, I have the M8 manual as pdf now.

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