Used Zeiss Microscope

[Harold]

I'm thinking of adding a Zeiss microscope to my "lab". Specifically, one of the older models like a Standard 20. I think I've found a likely candidate, but before I pull the trigger, I'd like some feedback on this scope. It's item # 185119045780 on flea-Bay. Thanks.

[Adam Long]

Harold,

That looks like decent scope to start with but for me the price is too high. The stage and binocular head are both the older type which work fine but I would not expect to pay a high price for. Likewise the objectives are basic plan achromats of the older style. The 8x eyepieces are KPL, which is good, but the 8x present a lower apparent field of view - i.e. the same 18mm field at a lower mag than 10x. The illumination is built-in whereas the better stands either have a separate illuminator or a tube to slide a bulb holder in from the back. While it works fine the quality of lighting gets better the further the bulb is from the field diaphragm. The condenser holder does not have a filter holder or aux lens.

On the plus side it is complete and tested and from a reputable supplier. I'm not sure what I'd pay for the LED conversion - I'd want to test it first - but clearly there is some value there.

For comparison (I'm not sure if the seller will post to the US) item 185147348673 is a more interesting scope for me. The stand is older (metal logo & diaphragm surround) but is an 18 (removable nosepiece), has rear illumination, plus better eyepieces and filter holders. Most importantly it includes an Optovar - I paid £300 for mine alone.

[MicroBob]

Hi Harold,
this was a transition model between 160mm and infinity. I'm not too informed here but I remember that there were more or less desirable versions of the microscopes of this era. Buying parts like trino tubes might be difficult. So I would recommend to make sure what you exactly buy there, whether it is meant to operate together and whether it is what you need.

Bob

[PeteM]

Harold, That will be well over $700 with tax and shipping. For that money you might be able to add some missing capability? That Zeiss has a fairly dim lighting system and what look to be plan achromats - any real advance over what you already have? FWIW, we just passed along a Zeiss trinocular with phase contrast for quite a bit less. One of these days a complete Zeiss DIC is going to go, though with quite a bit more into it.

[Adam Long]

Hi Harold,
this was a transition model between 160mm and infinity.
Bob

Bob is referring here to the Standard 20. Your linked item on ebay is I think a Standard 16 (5 objective fixed turret).

[Harold]

Thanks to all who responded. I'm in no major rush, and not really looking to improve over my Olympus BH2 with S-Plan objectives. I just like the look of the Zeiss scopes in the "standard" line (15 - 20). Shipping is expensive these days, but at least my state doesn't collect sales tax. Think I'll keep looking. The UK scope looks good too, but the seller isn't willing to ship to the US.

[Adam Long]

Are you looking for a complete scope with optics, or happy to put a kit together?

362256209312 Is in the US and includes Optovar, new trinoc head and eyepieces, but the illumination looks to be a newer adaptation from an Axio.

[Harold]

I'd like a vendor with a little higher satisfaction rating. And by the time I add objectives, I'd be looking at a much higher price point. BTW, what exactly does an Optivar do?

While thrashing around, I also found this Item #234063962876. I'd still need a 100x oil objective, but I think those can be had at a reasonable price.

[75RR]

BTW, what exactly does an Optivar do?

https://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/ar ... tovar.html

I also found this Item #234063962876.

The more of the things that you want that are in place on a microscope when you buy it the more economical they turn out.

So try and get one with a Trinocular, at least plan objectives, a rotary stage (for all sorts of reasons) external illumination and metal field diaphragm housing.


Negatives of the microscope you linked to: Objectives are achromats, you really want to do better than that, also eyepieces are Cpl, rather than Kpl

Binocular head, fliptop condenser (bottom of the range) plastic field diaphragm housing (has less leaves), and internal illumination.

http://www.science-info.net/docs/zeiss/ ... ystems.pdf

[PeteM]

You'll be hard pressed to find much better Zeiss optics from this era than your Olympus SPlans. The Zeiss plan fluorites are no better. Plan Apos are available, but expensive, sometimes delaminated, and with a narrower plan view and less contrast.

Might be interesting to get a bare Zeiss Standard 18 or WL stand with a 100 watt (or LED retrofit) source and move your Splans and Olympus eyepieces over to it? The look you want from ten feet away plus the look you want through the eyetubes? And with an interchangeable nosepiece, you could easily swap Zeiss objectives and compensating eyepieces back in should you so wish.

What I don't know is if a Zeiss trinocular head would be wide enough to pass a 20mm FN image, much less some Zeiss standard/WL head version capable of 26mm?? Also might be a bit of shimming to have the eyepieces pick up the image at the right point? Somewhere around there there's a chart to show the differences.

[Harold]

Thanks again, Pete. So, you think the Olympus optics are better than Zeiss of that era? If so, that's good to know. Truth be told, this is more of a fishing session. The wife gave me permission for one more scope, so I'm looking. The design of the Zeiss instruments caught my eye, but I'm not a slave to fashion. Not much of a mix and match guy either. I'm not necessarily looking for anything better that my BH2, but whatever I settle on should be a lateral move and not significantly downhill. Unfortunately, I have very little knowledge about the pro's and con's of the major optical houses. Any suggestions about where to look next, Leica or Nikon or ...? I am glad I talked to the folks here before doing something disappointing. Y'all have been most helpful.

[PeteM]

A BH2 with SPlan objectives is a very fine microscope. You may be hard-pressed to get a scope with noticeably better images better under $1-2K. And at those prices, maybe hold out for something like DIC???

[Gatorengineer64]

I know the Seller of the first scope and Jim is a great standup guy, and he is my go to Zeiss expert. I have one of his LEDs for my scope and it works great. He put that on what he is selling. He would probably work with you on the price if you write to him.

Zeiss black brass is a lot cheaper than the later greys (I know I am trying to move my spare blacks), and you can pieces part together a heck of a nice zeiss with Neofluars for next to nothing, as an option. Olympus Splans must be nice because they go for high dollar.......

[Harold]

A BH2 with SPlan objectives is a very fine microscope. You may be hard-pressed to get a scope with noticeably better images better under $1-2K. And at those prices, maybe hold out for something like DIC???

As I mentioned, I am a bit naive about microscopes made since 1950. I remember using AO scopes in the biology labs at Iowa State. Haven't laid hands on a microscope since then until about a year ago when I took to the small end of the universe after years of deep sky astro-photography. I'd used an Olympus spotting scope and had been impressed with it's optics. So that's where I chose start. Little did I know I'd picked such a winner. I have to admit, the BH2's visual images have been a huge improvement over anything I remember from college. When I expressed a desire to get a microscope to my wife, she very generously allowed me a $1K budget. Even with the photographic adapters and upgrading one of the objectives, I've still got a couple 100 unspoken for. So to speak.

Maybe I ought to just reassess my options Meantime, maybe a Nikon...

[Scarodactyl]

If you're getting a second scope ot shouldn't be redundant with your first scope. Perhaps a fine stereo or an epi scope?

[BramHuntingNematodes]

Might could set up a black Zeiss with phase to complement the bf/df Olympus too. That's be a difference.

[Adam Long]

BTW, what exactly does an Optivar do?

The Optovar is a magnification changer. The standard version has 1x, 1.25x, 1.6x and 2x positions plus a focusable betrand lens which is far superior to a phase telescope for inspecting the rear focal plane to align phase rings, adjust condenser aperture or identify delamination. Some versions include an analyzer, a rare variant has 0.8x instead of 2x.

It is one of the best components of the Zeiss Standard system. It gives you many more options for magnification and there is very little blackout when switching up or down. If you search ebay most that come up will lack dovetails - these are for the Phomi and Universal stands and are not compatible.

While thrashing around, I also found this Item #234063962876. I'd still need a 100x oil objective, but I think those can be had at a reasonable price.

That is a very late version Standard - note the rubber ring around the objective turret - with built-in illumination, an unusual late-version binocular head I have no experience of, and the most basic plan objectives and CPL eyepieces. I wouldn't pay half the asking price personally.

If you're getting a second scope ot shouldn't be redundant with your first scope. Perhaps a fine stereo or an epi scope?

I'd echo that suggestion, sounds like you already have a good working scope that a Standard would only duplicate.

[Wes]

I would start here: 124987228047

Probably the best scope Zeiss ever made and you can upgrade with whatever you wish, planapochromats with DIC and so on.

[Hobbyst46]

Had I been able to own and use an Olympus BH2, I would rather invest in further accessories for it than buy an old Zeiss. Speaking as microscopist, not a collector.

[deBult]

Had I been able to own and use an Olympus BH2, I would rather invest in further accessories to it than buy an old Zeiss. Speaking as microscopist, not a collector.

Hmm Olympus fanboy here: apart from the optical and mechanical quality, the excellent BH2 maintenance guides and video’s drafted by Carl Hunsinger at the Alan Wood website are an asset as well.

Note the BH2 has some mechanical weaknesses: the stage rack’s and condenser rack are 60 year old plastic, and sometimes show “crack’s”. Metal replacements are sometimes sold on the e…. (I have replaced all these on my BH2’s).

The SPlans are very fine, the 20* SPlan Apo is a star performer and a treasure to each pond dipper.

Olympus has it’s own “Optivar”: the BH2-CA magnification changer, no personal experience on that one though.

[Harold]

So maybe another microscope isn't the way to go. Since I've still got some of my original budget burning a hole in my pocket, I've decided to look into adding phase contrast to my current BH2. I have absolutely no experience with this technology and limited knowledge regarding the care and feeding of a phase contrast set up, but learning new "tricks" is one of this old dog's favorite pass times. So the research and equipment search begin. Again, I want to thank all who posted to this thread for steering me to a more satisfying use of my cash and time.

[deBult]

Olympus has 4 types of phase contrast objectives for the BH2:
PLL: Positive Low Low
PL: Positive Low
NM: Negative Medium
NH: Negative High

All using the same phase condenser. (Note 2 versions of the condenser, one has a 20* phase plate, the other a Dark Field stop)
Page 14 of the LB folder shows the effects.
http://alanwood.net/downloads/olympus-lb-objectives.pdf

As pond dipper I cannot do without the 20* objective and prefer the NH version.
PL is way more common (and cheaper).

[BramHuntingNematodes]

That is a good choise-- I too would not be without phase contrast and by all accounts the Olympus system is excellent.

[Harold]

Made my first tentative effort at getting properly equipped to try phase contrast. I've got a 550 filter and an Olympus CT phase centering telescope eye piece ordered. Both in the proper diameters for my existing BH2. The actual PC condenser and objectives will be next.

Which brings up another question. Which is preferable, the positive or negative objectives. I'll be hunting for 20x and 40x first.

[PeteM]

FWIW, it seems that demand for Olympus BH2 phase kit has pushed up prices. Three possibly useful things to know:

- If you have or get an Olympus BHT or BHS, you easily interchange nosepieces. One for your SPlans. Another for phase contrast.

- Should you happen up a complete Nikon long barrel finite phase set (phase condenser, objectives, eyepieces) at an attractive price, they'll fit a BH2 stand.

- Nikon also had phase condensers with a slider for one to two phase annuli. You might find one at low cost.

[Harold]

I did a quick Ebay search for both Olympus and Nikon PC condensers. The Nikon units were only slightly less costly, but thanks for the suggestion. The Olympus versions are a bit more money (still a whole lot cheaper than any used Zeiss scope), and as stated earlier, mixing brands makes me just a bit nervous. BTW, I've downloaded everything I could find on the topic from Carl H and Alan W. Little light reading while making up my mind about next steps.

Also considering moving this discussion to the "Illumination Techniques" forum.

[EYE C U]

where do you live
?

[Harold]

where do you live
?
scope in usa... 175020330727

I'm in Southern Oregon. I've abandon the idea of a Zeiss scope in favor of equipping my BH2 for phase contrast.

[Scarodactyl]

If you're looking for a deal, I have a labophot 2 body along with a labophot phase contrast condenser and probably a trinocular head, and I think maybe a stage too? You'd still need to get some parts to complete it all but I'd kind of like to have these parts off my hands, I just have too many projects. It might be nicer not to have to switch things up for different illumination.