Zeiss Turret Condenser Question

[LouiseScot]

Has anyone ever tried (and maybe even succeeded!) in adapting one of the old Zeiss condensers e.g. viewtopic.php?p=69172#p69172, to fit the more common 37mm condenser holders? Or, alternatively, adapted a 37mm holder to take the Zeiss?

Thanks

Louise

ps Merry Christmas/Season's Greetings/Happy Holidays to everyone!

[Hobbyst46]

Happy Holidays to all.

The Zeiss condenser male dovetail diameters are 37.8mm (min) and 42.4mm (max) as far as I could determine with calipers.
I may have a spare male dovetail ring, that can be attached to another condenser by means of three machine screws (or glued or something). Louise, please PM me if interested.

[LouiseScot]

Happy Holidays to all.

The Zeiss condenser male dovetail diameters are 37.8mm (min) and 42.4mm (max) as far as I could determine with calipers.
I may have a spare male dovetail ring, that can be attached to another condenser by means of three machine screws (or glued or something). Louise, please PM me if interested.

Hiya

Yeah, I have the condenser but I wanted to try and adapt it somehow to attach to the current, simple 37mm holder I have. On the face of it, it doesn't seem possible without some major surgery on one part or the other! I was thinking i terms of 3D printing something but was wondering if someone else might have already found a way. I'll have a another, and closer, look at the 37mm mechanism. Maybe the inner part of that might come away from the outer part (giving me a bigger hole). Or maybe the whole thing can come away from the R&P mechanism and maybe allow me to replace it

Thanks
Best wishes!

Louise

[LouiseScot]

I was able to take off the original 37mm assembly and remove the inner part. I then made another ring which allowed the Zeiss dovetail to fit. Seems ok.
Does anyone by any chance have a specific user guide for one of these Inko, single arrow condensers? I think I've figured out most of the controls but can't see how to adjust the iris diaphragms. Is it anything to do with the very small slotted pins that stick out?
Grateful for any guidance/info

Thanks

Louise

[75RR]

All rotary Zeiss condensers have the same controls, though the type of port may vary.
.

[LouiseScot]

All rotary Zeiss condensers have the same controls, though the type of port may vary.
.

Thanks, though I really wanted to know how to adjust the individual DIC prism iris diaphragms - my (old type) inko condenser doesn't have a brightfield? Is it something to do with the very small slotted screws/pins?

Louise

ps it's like the one in the link in my op above

[75RR]

In my DIC condenser, each DIC port has its own iris, and the same dial that works for brightfield works with them.

Check what letters and numbers appear on the side of your condenser - the one over the white line is the one that is active.

[LouiseScot]

In my DIC condenser, each DIC port has its own iris, and the same dial that works for brightfield works with them.

Check what letters and numbers appear on the side of your condenser - the one over the white line is the one that is active.

Yeah, mine is the same (as in the op link) but I don't think that control adjusts the irises - it does move. Maybe it's broken I'll have a look in the light of day tomorrow.

Thanks

Louise

Ps what do the little pins/screws that stick out do?

[LouiseScot]

In my DIC condenser, each DIC port has its own iris, and the same dial that works for brightfield works with them.

Check what letters and numbers appear on the side of your condenser - the one over the white line is the one that is active.

Yeah, mine is the same (as in the op link) but I don't think that control adjusts the irises - it does move. Maybe it's broken I'll have a look in the light of day tomorrow.

Thanks

Louise

Ps what do the little pins/screws that stick out do?

These (arrows) it looks like one for each diaphragm

Zeiss.JPG (54.03 KiB) Viewed 23308 times

[75RR]

Ps what do the little pins/screws that stick out do?

I think you may not have assembled it correctly. Will open one tomorrow to remind myself what they do :)

[75RR]

Just saw your photo, those pins control the iris, they must not be slotted in the other half of the condenser correctly.

They seem to be pointing in different directions, try and line them up with the slots.

[LouiseScot]

Just saw your photo, those pins control the iris, they must not be slotted in the other half of the condenser correctly.

They seem to be pointing in different directions, try and line them up with the slots.

Oh, that's not mine! The pic is courtesy @MiicroBob as my op viewtopic.php?p=115428#p115428
Louise

[75RR]

Oh, that's not mine!

No matter, pins on yours still have to line up with slots on other half of condenser for dial in blue square to be able to activate both brightfield and DIC irises.

Note: All Zeiss rotary condensers have a brightfield port.

Check what letters and numbers appear on the side of your condenser - the one over the white line is the one that is active.

J symbol = brighfield, it is how you write capital 'I' (for iris) in traditional German alphabet.

.

[LouiseScot]

Oh, that's not mine!

No matter, pins on yours still have to line up with slots on other half of condenser for dial in blue square to be able to activate both brightfield and DIC irises.

Note: All Zeiss rotary condensers have a brightfield port.

Check what letters and numbers appear on the side of your condenser - the one over the white line is the one that is active.

J symbol = brighfield, it is how you write capital 'I' (for iris) in traditional German alphabet.

.

Ahh I think I'm feeling a bit more enlightened now! So here's a pic of mine:

MyZeissInko_25pc.jpg (47.18 KiB) Viewed 23269 times

It does indeed look like my pins are also bent a bit, so as you say, that's probably why the irises aren't operating. I used cross polarisers to determine that I is brightfield ii, iii, and iiii are prisms, and 2 and 3 are phase annulae. I suppose someone in the past must have forced something The seller misled me when he said there were 4 prisms and no brightfield... Anyway, that means I'll have to disassemble it to fix all the pins... I had a feeling that it was something to do with them - which is why I asked! What do they do? I've obviously seen MicroBobs refurbishment pics but they lack information and details. I hope that when I undo it, I'll be able to put Humpty Zeiss back together again!

Thanks

Louise

[Hobbyst46]

I believe you can do it. The pin is the actual "handle/lever" of the iris aperture. When the condenser is fully assembled, the pin passes through a narrow opening in the periphery ring of the top part - the shiny stainless steel ring. Rotating the crescent-like knob, that rotates the ring, pushes or pulls the pin clockwise or counter-clockwise, thence it opens or closes the iris, respectively. Such it is in the phase-contrast condensers.
Note, that - at least in my single J (BF) position condenser - the pin is not visible when the BF iris knob is at front. The pin is then hidden behind the carrier of the achromat-aplanat top lens.

[LouiseScot]

I believe you can do it. The pin is the actual "handle/lever" of the iris aperture. When the condenser is fully assembled, the pin passes through a narrow opening in the periphery ring of the top part - the shiny stainless steel ring. Rotating the crescent-like knob, that rotates the ring, pushes or pulls the pin clockwise or counter-clockwise, thence it opens or closes the iris, respectively. Such it is in the phase-contrast condensers.

Ok - thanks! I can't quite picture it. The only info I have is in MicroBob's refurbishment pics. I wish he'd done a step by step with instructions but you can't have everything!

Cheers

Louise

[Charles]

All the iris openings are controlled as one unit when the outer silver ring is turned. If one or more iris leaves are stuck, you will not be able to open or close any of the other ones. Most likely if they are not open and closing, they are gunked up with hardened grease or rusted leaves and need to be cleaned.

[LouiseScot]

All the iris openings are controlled as one unit when the outer silver ring is turned. If one or more iris leaves are stuck, you will not be able to open or close any of the other ones. Most likely if they are not open and closing, they are gunked up with hardened grease or rusted leaves and need to be cleaned.

Hi Charles!

Thanks. It actually looks pretty clean from the outside but who knows what lies beneath! As pointed out above, the pins need to fit into slots? Ill try undoing it tomorrow (UK time) and peaking inside...

Louise

[LouiseScot]

Having followed MicroBob's pic instructions I've been able to take the condenser part and lid off:

MyZeissOuterPart.jpg (60.36 KiB) Viewed 23210 times

I understand better how it works now! All the pins seem ok and, when taken apart, rotating the silver ring does operate the iris diaphragms correctly. All seems pretty clean inside and the prisms are good. The reason for my problem was, and is, that rotating the silver iris ring, which should just operate the irises, also tends to change the position i.e. also rotates the 'port selector'. There must be a simple answer and fix for that though I can't see what it is!? One needs to be decoupled from the other. Might it be a lubrication issue? Loosening the lid screw doesn't help. I don't think the bottom screw affects the silver iris ring - it seems just to give access to the phase annuli adjusters - both controls are working ok. Anybody know the answer?
Thanks for any help!
Louise

[Charles]

To operate the iris leaves, hold the bottom of the condenser from turning and turn only the silver ring which controls the iris opening and closing. To turn to another prism or opening, rotate the bottom of the condenser.

Observations of the phase annuli seem to be damaged/unusual.

[LouiseScot]

To operate the iris leaves, hold the bottom of the condenser from turning and turn only the silver ring which controls the iris opening and closing. To turn to another prism or opening, rotate the bottom of the condenser.

Thanks, Charles. The trouble is that I only have small, and not very strong hands - hard to grip some things Also my right hand is somewhat crippled by Dupuytren's Contracture (aka Viking Disease / Celtic Hand) which doesn't help. If, in fact, there is nothing actually wrong with the mechanism then, I'll try and design and 3D print a tool to help me grip the knurled, black selector. Where there's a will...

Merry Christmas!

Louise

[Hobbyst46]

... The reason for my problem was, and is, that rotating the silver iris ring, which should just operate the irises, also tends to change the position i.e. also rotates the 'port selector'. There must be a simple answer and fix for that though I can't see what it is!? One needs to be decoupled from the other. Might it be a lubrication issue? Loosening the lid screw doesn't help.
I don't think the bottom screw affects the silver iris ring - it seems just to give access to the phase annuli adjusters - both controls are working ok. Anybody know the answer?

I have three condensers and in two of them, the phase contrast control knobs were "coupled" to the iris ring, similar to your problem. I remember that neither the top lid screw nor the bottom center screw were the reason. Thorough cleaning of the inside should decouple.
Rotating the black knurled ring may indeed be somewhat difficult and require that the condenser is clamped within a complementary dovetail or otherwise. A vice in which the jaws are covered with a plastic/leather/plywood shield to prevent damage to the condenser's dovetail; or a plastic vice. It can then be handled single-handed, so to speak.

BTW, I managed to clean the leaves of the condenser's aperture without disassembly. By means of Q-tips wetted with octane/heptane/petrol ether/"white benzine". Close the iris, wipe clean, re-open, re-close, clean... many repetitions but the result is a permanently dry iris that works nicely. I I only used a tiny amount of grease for the inside ball bearing.

[LouiseScot]

... The reason for my problem was, and is, that rotating the silver iris ring, which should just operate the irises, also tends to change the position i.e. also rotates the 'port selector'. There must be a simple answer and fix for that though I can't see what it is!? One needs to be decoupled from the other. Might it be a lubrication issue? Loosening the lid screw doesn't help.
I don't think the bottom screw affects the silver iris ring - it seems just to give access to the phase annuli adjusters - both controls are working ok. Anybody know the answer?

I have three condensers and in two of them, the phase contrast control knobs were "coupled" to the iris ring, similar to your problem. I remember that neither the top lid screw nor the bottom center screw were the reason. Thorough cleaning of the inside should decouple.
Rotating the black knurled ring may indeed be somewhat difficult and require that the condenser is clamped within a complementary dovetail or otherwise. A vice in which the jaws are covered with a plastic/leather/plywood shield to prevent damage to the condenser's dovetail; or a plastic vice. It can then be handled single-handed, so to speak.

BTW, I managed to clean the leaves of the condenser's aperture without disassembly. By means of Q-tips wetted with octane/heptane/petrol ether/"white benzine". Close the iris, wipe clean, re-open, re-close, clean... many repetitions but the result is a permanently dry iris that works nicely. I I only used a tiny amount of grease for the inside ball bearing.

Hiya

Thanks - individually, the irises operate ok via the pins quite easily and they all seem very clean. It's really only when reassembled and turning the silver ring there's a problem with snagging/dragging the knurled port selector. It should be easy enough to make a clamp tool to hold the black port selector. I'll have a go tomorrow Failing that, I'll have to have another look at how the two parts interact.

Louise

[75RR]

It's really only when reassembled and turning the silver ring there's a problem with snagging/dragging the knurled port selector.

Note that each port with an iris has its own iris activator (kurled half-ring which I highlighted in a blue square above).

It is supposed to move with the port changer (following the port it activates the iris for.

Phase ports for example do not have an iris selector as they do not have an iris.

It is only when a port with iris is in the correct position (see white line on right side of condenser) that one can activate it. Its movement is only from 5 o'clock (open) to 6 o'clock (closed).

If you try to move it any more it rotates the port selector!


If you rest the condenser in your open palm, you should be able to activate all functions smoothly - unless something is overly stiff or stuck.

If that is the case then you need to open it up, clean, lubricate and reassemble.

Note: Make sure the ball bearing is in its place!
.

[LouiseScot]

It's really only when reassembled and turning the silver ring there's a problem with snagging/dragging the knurled port selector.

Note that each port with an iris has its own iris activator (kurled half-ring which I highlighted in a blue square above).

It is supposed to move with the port changer (following the port it activates the iris for.

Phase ports for example do not have an iris selector as they do not have an iris.

It is only when a port with iris is in the correct position (see white line on right side of condenser) that one can activate it. Its movement is only from 5 o'clock (open) to 6 o'clock (closed).

If you try to move it any more it rotates the port selector!


If you rest the condenser in your open palm, you should be able to activate all functions smoothly - unless something is overly stiff or stuck.

If that is the case then you need to open it up, clean, lubricate and reassemble.

Note: Make sure the ball bearing is in its place!
.

Hi again - I'm not sure mine is the same? As in post #19 you can see there is a single silver ring and the whole ring rotates and notches in it move the pins for all the irises together. Unless I'm missing something?
Here's another pic:

ZeissInkoRing.jpg (48.85 KiB) Viewed 23128 times

Maybe I've been doing it wrong... I'll have another look later.

Louise

[LouiseScot]

Another pic I took earlier - silver ring removed and showing individual iris pins:

MyZeissInkoPins.jpg (42.43 KiB) Viewed 23121 times

Louise

[LouiseScot]

MicroBob's posts show it better: https://www.microbehunter.com/microsco ... 172#p69172

Louise

[75RR]

.
There is as you say a single silver ring that activates the irises, there are however on that ring several knurled half-rings that need to be placed in correct relation to the ports that have an iris.

In the image below they are not placed in the correct position. The iris activating ring needs to be lifted, turned, and placed so that each knurled half-ring is in correct relation to an iris bearing port.

i.e. between 5 and 6 o'clock when a port with iris is in active position.

Red = Silver iris activating ring
Green = Knurled half-rings
Blue = ports with irises
.

[LouiseScot]

.
There is as you say a single silver ring that activates the irises, there are however on that ring several knurled half-rings that need to be placed in correct relation to the ports that have an iris.

Red = Silver iris activating ring
Green = Knurled half-rings
Blue = ports with irises
.

Yes, I have that and, with the pins in their respective notches and everything lines up. Rotating the ring moves all the iris pins simultaneously so all the diaphragms open/close at the same time. It all works ok but is a bit stiff, and even when not mounted, it's difficult to hold the port selector whilst trying to open/close the irises (as mentioned above re my hand difficulties). I think I'll undo it again tomorrow and see if I can do something to improve things.

Thanks

Louise

[Charles]

There is only one way the ring will fit with access cut outs for each post of iris position and no cut outs for the phase positions. If the cover is on and fits, it's probably on right.