Leica R.M.S. objective.

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apochronaut
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Leica R.M.S. objective.

#1 Post by apochronaut » Mon May 09, 2022 2:32 pm

Does anyone know why Leica still catalogues a single R.M.S. objective? It is HCX too. Were not HCX 25mm thread ?

MichaelG.
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Re: Leica R.M.S. objective.

#2 Post by MichaelG. » Mon May 09, 2022 4:58 pm

I have no idea … unless [heaven forefend] it’s a typo

Have you seen one in the flesh ?

The ‘Figure’ doesn’t look much like RMS, but it may be generic.
https://www.leica-microsystems.com/obje ... ve/767019/

MichaelG.
.

Curiouser and curiouser …
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/173851103864
similar spec, but different part number
Last edited by MichaelG. on Mon May 09, 2022 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Too many 'projects'

Scarodactyl
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Re: Leica R.M.S. objective.

#3 Post by Scarodactyl » Mon May 09, 2022 5:12 pm

It looks like an objective from their industrial line which iirc they sold off Vistec in the 90s--maybe one of those overmag metallurgical ones likely meant for a low mp camera rather than an eye. It could be a legacy item for OEM usage.

Edit: eBay is littered with ex-Reichert Leica 150x/0.90 bd plan apos with similar styling but a larger thread, but this one looks like it could be the right beastie https://www.ebay.com/itm/255521802181
Last edited by Scarodactyl on Mon May 09, 2022 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

apochronaut
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Re: Leica R.M.S. objective.

#4 Post by apochronaut » Mon May 09, 2022 5:15 pm

It is listed in several places as R.M.S. as well as a section where you can choose objectives by thread type. 200+ 25mm objectives and a lone R.M.S.
There is also a very similar objective of .90 N.A. that is a 32mm thread, which warrants no illustration. It is listed for T.L.-B.F. and Fluor too but as well I.L.-D.F.

All other objectives I have looked at have credible illustrations, so that one does look to be a cartoon.

apochronaut
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Re: Leica R.M.S. objective.

#5 Post by apochronaut » Mon May 09, 2022 5:16 pm

Scarodactyl wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 5:12 pm
It looks like an objective from their industrial line which iirc they sold off Vistec in the 90s--maybe one of those overmag metallurgical ones likely meant for a low mp camera rather than an eye. It could be a legacy item for OEM usage.
It is listed for transmitted light?

Scarodactyl
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Re: Leica R.M.S. objective.

#6 Post by Scarodactyl » Mon May 09, 2022 5:23 pm

I'm sure it's suitable for transmitted light, but I'd bet it wasn't designed for it. I dunno, maybe there are pathologists who want that for lower res counting and don't want to use 15x eyepieces(?) But it's a much more common industrial spec.

Scarodactyl
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Re: Leica R.M.S. objective.

#7 Post by Scarodactyl » Mon May 09, 2022 5:25 pm

As further evidence the same seller as above has a similarly styled Leica 250x/0.95. I have only seen that in industrial objectives, or solid immersion I guess.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/255521801261
Note the thread adapter too, suggesting it has an unusually small thread.

Edit: these were used on the DM IRM industrial inverted scope and specifically called out as rms-threaded in the manual. Bet it's the same even eith a dofferent catalogue number
Image
The thread and spacer combo probably indicates that they were reusing an older design even then. I wonder what the terms were of their deal with Vistec.

apochronaut
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Re: Leica R.M.S. objective.

#8 Post by apochronaut » Mon May 09, 2022 7:57 pm

Most of the plan apo objectives on that chart look like they were derived from Reichert designed objectives, although Reichert never used R.M.S. threads on them. Their's were 27mm.

The DM IRM brochure I have access too says the nosepiece is 32mm -.75 but the picture of the objective range shows another 19 objectives other than the planapos : 8 achromats and 11 fluotars. Some of the Plan N look to be 25mm but there don't seem to be any R.M.S., so they have must have either made a change in the instrument and gone to 32mm threaded objectives and 25mm objectives with "spacer rings", or also as you surmise have contracted them out to Vistec.
Still doesn't explain why they still catalogue just the one R.M.S. objective .

Since the stand can be used for both incident and transmitted light, they are pretty clear on what lighting system each objective can be used with. That one is explicitly designated as T.L. - B.F. and Fluorescence. The 32mm objective is also for I.L. - D.F., ....likely why they cut the N.A. some. .05 N.A. can make a difference with D.F.

That would be the highest resolution no cover dry objective they have for that stand , so maybe that's why they keep it going. It is HCX and probably 20 years old, it might seem.

Scarodactyl
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Re: Leica R.M.S. objective.

#9 Post by Scarodactyl » Mon May 09, 2022 8:10 pm

I wonder if maybe their contract with Vistec prevents them from competing by continuing to sell industrial objectives, but if it's just an unusially specced dry brightfield objective it's a-ok. That's some pretty thin speculation though.

apochronaut
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Re: Leica R.M.S. objective.

#10 Post by apochronaut » Mon May 09, 2022 8:32 pm

Vistec sold a bunch of microscopes which were Leica modified Polyvars essentially, probably still made in Vienna just like the Diastar continued to be made in Buffalo with the Leica name on it. They were industrial incident versions of what was or became the DM RXE, a fluorescence microscope with both transmitted and incident illumination. They even used the illuminator housings from the Diastar.
The practice at Reichert was : R.M.S. for transmitted and 27mm for incident. Maybe the RXE followed suit with the threading scheme, increasing the epi objective thead size some to accomodate a wider field but retaining the R.M.S. nosepiece for transmitted illumination. So that objective is a no cover fluorescence objective for dry smears.
I would imagine that even 20 some years down the line, a DM RXE would be costly to replace with something equivalent. That objective might still have a market in certain research quarters. They might be prone to being immersed.

apochronaut
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Re: Leica R.M.S. objective.

#11 Post by apochronaut » Mon May 09, 2022 9:00 pm

MichaelG. wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 4:58 pm
I have no idea … unless [heaven forefend] it’s a typo

Have you seen one in the flesh ?

The ‘Figure’ doesn’t look much like RMS, but it may be generic.
https://www.leica-microsystems.com/obje ... ve/767019/

MichaelG.
.

Curiouser and curiouser …
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/173851103864
similar spec, but different part number
Leitz had infinity corrected incident light microscopes and a range of no cover objectives , prior to their merger with Cambridge . That may be an objective from one of those. I have no idea if they maintained any compatability between the Leitz infinity system and the Delta system that evolved out of the AO/Reichert infinity system in 1991. The major change was the reference length. HCX objectives are backward compatible with Delta and forward compatible with HC. Delta are not forward compatible with HCX or HC. That seems illogical but it may be all due to a simple case of field of view.
Objectives have a finite image circle. AO/Reichert objectives were only required to meet spec. over a 24mm f.o.v. and the Delta system came onstream quite rapidly after the 1991 merger. There is no way Leica could have developed a line of infinity corrected objectives so fast but they would have been able to adapt the AO/Reichert system to compete temporarily, since AO/Reichert at the time was the leader due to early innovation. HCX was the more completely engineered system with larger flat image circles and fields. No doubt, Delta objectives lack peripheral correction if installed in an HCX or HC microscope, functioning more like non plan objectives of yesteryear. Some might even vignette.

wabutter
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Re: Leica R.M.S. objective.

#12 Post by wabutter » Sat May 14, 2022 2:02 am

I can tell you this is definitely not an adapted Reichert industrial objective from the Vistek Polyvar range. When the Vistek name was implemented as a spin off from Leica, the Vienna factory was already out of the microscope business. The continue to make EM instrumentation, today.
The 11767xxx catalog numbers were essentially the same as the 11567xxx numbers, both produced in Wetzlar, Germany. The 767 prefix designated a business unit separation as a profit center from the 567 prefix. The RMS was a carry over from the Ergoplan generation semiconductor scope. It didn’t make sense to reboot the object at the production volumes that were generated in that era.
In 2010 Leica introduced the the DM8000/Dm12000 industrial microscopes with large wafer holding stages for the use in the semi conductor inspection market. Vistek had moved out of the stand alone semiconductor microscope market by that time.

Scarodactyl
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Re: Leica R.M.S. objective.

#13 Post by Scarodactyl » Sat May 14, 2022 2:09 am

Thanks! Once again appreciate a peek behind the Leica curtain.

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