Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

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dirigibil
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Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#1 Post by dirigibil » Sun Mar 12, 2023 2:52 pm

I have a weird haze on my Olympus A E40 0.65 objective. It came with the CH2 that I bought used. I thought it was a depth-of-field issue until I got the stage micrometer and realized it is ridiculous. Here are pictures from all of my objectives, straightened and cropped from an iPhone 6 with a 12.5x eyepiece phone mount. The 40x was cleaned with a cotton swab and IPA and distilled water -- nothing helps. The micrometer is 0.01mm divs. Thoughts?
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apochronaut
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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#2 Post by apochronaut » Sun Mar 12, 2023 3:12 pm

This is the kind of fuzzy image that can happen with a small amount of of some substance inside scattering the light : lens separation or even oil invasion. Oil leaks in oil immersion objectives are usually more severe and result in different distortions due to repeated dipping and therefore much oil being pressured in over tiime through a small leak.
40X leak due to accidental and brief dipping of an objective never intended to be immersed, so sometimes a small amount gets on the back hemisphere of the front lens.

Whatever it is, it sure looks like something internal.

Hobbyst46
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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#3 Post by Hobbyst46 » Sun Mar 12, 2023 3:52 pm

Notice also the vignetting in the E 40x image, it should not be there if the objective is functional.

dirigibil
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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#4 Post by dirigibil » Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:28 pm

Hobbyst46 wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 3:52 pm
Notice also the vignetting in the E 40x image, it should not be there if the objective is functional.
That is from the camera on the phone. I cropped the other ones more.

EDIT: Maybe I misunderstand what vignetting is?
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IMG_001386.JPG (60.51 KiB) Viewed 3961 times
IMG_001384.JPG
IMG_001384.JPG (70.53 KiB) Viewed 3961 times
IMG_001380.JPG
IMG_001380.JPG (55.31 KiB) Viewed 3961 times
IMG_001376.JPG
IMG_001376.JPG (32.58 KiB) Viewed 3961 times

dirigibil
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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#5 Post by dirigibil » Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:30 pm

apochronaut wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 3:12 pm
This is the kind of fuzzy image that can happen with a small amount of of some substance inside scattering the light : lens separation or even oil invasion. Oil leaks in oil immersion objectives are usually more severe and result in different distortions due to repeated dipping and therefore much oil being pressured in over tiime through a small leak.
40X leak due to accidental and brief dipping of an objective never intended to be immersed, so sometimes a small amount gets on the back hemisphere of the front lens.

Whatever it is, it sure looks like something internal.
Is there a solution or should I buy another objective?

apochronaut
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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#6 Post by apochronaut » Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:47 pm

First, you can confirm whether it has a damaged cement layer by looking into the objective with a stereo microscope or by using a reversed eyepiece as a strong hand magnifier. With a backlit source such as a clear window, focus on the clean front lens surface and then slowly through the lens pack to the back lens surface. You can view from the back lens forward too but with a reversed eyepiece you probably can't focus through to the front lens surface. If it is oil making an even film on one ir more lens surfaces, you may not be able to see that. Sometimes by quickly rotating the objective 180° while viewing , you can see some oil draining with gravity but once the amount has reached that proportion, usually the affect on the image is worse.

If it has a cement problem, I wouldn't be bothered trying to rectify that. Only with an expensive objective. If it is oil, it can be cleaned and such objectives are quite easy to do. That's the one with the wide rubber grip ring around it, correct?
I would do it for you for free but with two postage fees to Canada and back, it probably isn't worth it. You can probably land a good used planachro for about the same price.

PeteM
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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#7 Post by PeteM » Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:11 pm

I'd consider this an opportunity to get a 40x Olympus DPlan objective. 40x is one of the most challenging magnifications (compared to 10x and 20x), and the DPlan is a significantly better, but still affordable, objective.

As Phil said, this may have oil intrusion. Olympus' educational achromat objectives tended to get sold into the hands of careless users.

dirigibil
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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#8 Post by dirigibil » Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:50 pm

apochronaut wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:47 pm
First, you can confirm whether it has a damaged cement layer by looking into the objective with a stereo microscope or by using a reversed eyepiece as a strong hand magnifier. With a backlit source such as a clear window, focus on the clean front lens surface and then slowly through the lens pack to the back lens surface. You can view from the back lens forward too but with a reversed eyepiece you probably can't focus through to the front lens surface. If it is oil making an even film on one ir more lens surfaces, you may not be able to see that. Sometimes by quickly rotating the objective 180° while viewing , you can see some oil draining with gravity but once the amount has reached that proportion, usually the affect on the image is worse.

If it has a cement problem, I wouldn't be bothered trying to rectify that. Only with an expensive objective. If it is oil, it can be cleaned and such objectives are quite easy to do. That's the one with the wide rubber grip ring around it, correct?
I would do it for you for free but with two postage fees to Canada and back, it probably isn't worth it. You can probably land a good used planachro for about the same price.
I appreciate the information. I will do advised. You don't happen to have any objectives for sale by chance?

BTW: No rubber grip. Looks like this (picture from an ebay auction but it is the same one):
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dirigibil
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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#9 Post by dirigibil » Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:56 pm

PeteM wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:11 pm
I'd consider this an opportunity to get a 40x Olympus DPlan objective. 40x is one of the most challenging magnifications (compared to 10x and 20x), and the DPlan is a significantly better, but still affordable, objective.

As Phil said, this may have oil intrusion. Olympus' educational achromat objectives tended to get sold into the hands of careless users.
Olympus DPlans 40x are going to $100+ used on that auction site, while Nikon EPlans are $25 - $50. What's the deal with that? Any reason not to go for a Nikon at 1/4 price?

hans
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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#10 Post by hans » Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:58 pm

40X 0.65 should give a pretty bad (but maybe not that bad) image if used with no cover glass. Might be worth sticking a 0.17 mm cover glass on top of the micrometer slide with a small drop of immersion oil to get an idea how much of the haze is from the objective itself vs. lack of cover glass.

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imkap
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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#11 Post by imkap » Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:12 pm

You can find a Dplan 40 for less, just wait a bit. I bought mine (10x) for maybe 30$.

Here is one sold a few days ago:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304823197151?h ... 7675.l2557

PeteM
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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#12 Post by PeteM » Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:19 pm

dirigibil wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:56 pm
PeteM wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:11 pm
I'd consider this an opportunity to get a 40x Olympus DPlan objective. 40x is one of the most challenging magnifications (compared to 10x and 20x), and the DPlan is a significantly better, but still affordable, objective.

As Phil said, this may have oil intrusion. Olympus' educational achromat objectives tended to get sold into the hands of careless users.
Olympus DPlans 40x are going to $100+ used on that auction site, while Nikon EPlans are $25 - $50. What's the deal with that? Any reason not to go for a Nikon at 1/4 price?
Nikon objectives use different corrections. For best results, you'd want to swap eyepieces each time you used the 40x. I'd stick with Olympus long barrel finite choices.

Hans has a good point. Check the view with a cover slip - perhaps using a slide with sharply defined edges if you won't want to use oil.

My experience has been the same as Imkap - but more like $60-70. These days sellers seem to think everything microscope-related is a lottery ticket. You could also look for "Olympus 40x (DPlan,SPlan)." The SPlans are even better and sometimes sold for the same price as DPlans.

Hobbyst46
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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#13 Post by Hobbyst46 » Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:29 pm

Note that there exists a 40X/1.0 DPLAN, an immersion oil objective, a fantastic objective but not for your purpose...

viktor j nilsson
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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#14 Post by viktor j nilsson » Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:53 pm

Not sure if their page is up to date, but dealcorner lists a Splan 40x for $90:
https://www.dealcorner.com/Olympus-Objectives

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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#15 Post by Phill Brown » Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:58 pm

I'm seeing the edge of the image is not good also with aberration, might not be relevant.
If you are new to optics don't panic buy just yet maybe.
Get a really good magnified look at the front that has been cleaned,it may still have some residue on there.
Also the lens in the back,if it's been open to the air without a head with the 40x selected it could have anything on it.
Vaping or smoking is not good if it's had some exposure,
Doesn't need to be in the same room, just the same house.

dirigibil
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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#16 Post by dirigibil » Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:24 pm

hans wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:58 pm
40X 0.65 should give a pretty bad (but maybe not that bad) image if used with no cover glass. Might be worth sticking a 0.17 mm cover glass on top of the micrometer slide with a small drop of immersion oil to get an idea how much of the haze is from the objective itself vs. lack of cover glass.
With a drop of Cargille Immersion Oil Type B directly on slide and coverslip on top.
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apochronaut
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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#17 Post by apochronaut » Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:38 pm

dirigibil wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:50 pm
apochronaut wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:47 pm
First, you can confirm whether it has a damaged cement layer by looking into the objective with a stereo microscope or by using a reversed eyepiece as a strong hand magnifier. With a backlit source such as a clear window, focus on the clean front lens surface and then slowly through the lens pack to the back lens surface. You can view from the back lens forward too but with a reversed eyepiece you probably can't focus through to the front lens surface. If it is oil making an even film on one ir more lens surfaces, you may not be able to see that. Sometimes by quickly rotating the objective 180° while viewing , you can see some oil draining with gravity but once the amount has reached that proportion, usually the affect on the image is worse.

If it has a cement problem, I wouldn't be bothered trying to rectify that. Only with an expensive objective. If it is oil, it can be cleaned and such objectives are quite easy to do. That's the one with the wide rubber grip ring around it, correct?
I would do it for you for free but with two postage fees to Canada and back, it probably isn't worth it. You can probably land a good used planachro for about the same price.
I appreciate the information. I will do advised. You don't happen to have any objectives for sale by chance?

BTW: No rubber grip. Looks like this (picture from an ebay auction but it is the same one):
I took a look and I do have one Olympus format 40X .65 achro. It looks little used , if at all. P.M. me if you are interested.

hans
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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#18 Post by hans » Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:35 pm

dirigibil wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:24 pm
With a drop of Cargille Immersion Oil Type B directly on slide and coverslip on top.
Looks sharper, at least. Still not great contrast but I'm not sure what is expected for that objective. The different colors of the chromatic aberration on the left and right sides of the image (more red and cyan on the left, more yellow and blue on the right) is suspicious but the 20X image in your first post also has more red/cyan on the left side so that might be a misalignment somewhere else in the microscope rather than a problem with the objective. Is it the same through both eyepieces?

apochronaut
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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#19 Post by apochronaut » Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:00 am

The immersion oil is just in some way refracting the rays so they cancel out what is an obvious problem with spherical aberration internally. Why would a 40X .65 objective improve when immersion oil is used?
The skewed c.a. is evident in photos of the scale with the other objectives too. It's a cockeyed camera mount.

dirigibil
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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#20 Post by dirigibil » Tue Mar 14, 2023 7:23 am

apochronaut wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:00 am
The immersion oil is just in some way refracting the rays so they cancel out what is an obvious problem with spherical aberration internally. Why would a 40X .65 objective improve when immersion oil is used?
The skewed c.a. is evident in photos of the scale with the other objectives too. It's a cockeyed camera mount.
I was advised to put oil between the cover glass and the slide, which is what I did. Not sure if that makes a difference to your assessment.

dirigibil
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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#21 Post by dirigibil » Tue Mar 14, 2023 7:27 am

hans wrote:
Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:35 pm
dirigibil wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:24 pm
With a drop of Cargille Immersion Oil Type B directly on slide and coverslip on top.
Looks sharper, at least. Still not great contrast but I'm not sure what is expected for that objective. The different colors of the chromatic aberration on the left and right sides of the image (more red and cyan on the left, more yellow and blue on the right) is suspicious but the 20X image in your first post also has more red/cyan on the left side so that might be a misalignment somewhere else in the microscope rather than a problem with the objective. Is it the same through both eyepieces?
The eyepiece used for the photos is a cheapo 12.5x which is attached to a cell phone holder for easy of popping into an eye-piece-tube. I am sure it is adding some something terrible optically, which is a reason I included pictures of all the objectives. I don't have a way of taking a decent picture with the Olympus oculars since I don't feel like duck taping a carboard tube to my scope (my hands aren't super steady).

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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#22 Post by woyjwjl » Tue Mar 14, 2023 7:55 am

It is estimated that it has nothing to do with the cover glass
NFK5X Splan 40.JPG
NFK5X Splan 40.JPG (68.15 KiB) Viewed 3753 times
This is my coverless slide photo (SPlan40 NKF 5X GH4)

Best Regards
Micrographers from China, thanks to the forum for providing a platform for exchange

Hobbyst46
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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#23 Post by Hobbyst46 » Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:34 pm

Maybe it is a mechanical vibration issue. The 40X images will be more sensitive to vibration than 20X, 10X etc. If the phone adapter plus eyepiece is not well aligned and stable on the microscope. Also, touching the phone to take the photo might have changed the focus. By chance, when the slide was covered (including the oil), a better focused view was achieved; like Apo and woyjwjl commented, the oil medium plus coverslip per se should not matter much for sharpness in this case.

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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#24 Post by apochronaut » Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:38 pm

Dipping an objective designed for air into oil can't be good. Wonder if this isn't the first time?

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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#25 Post by Hobbyst46 » Tue Mar 14, 2023 11:01 pm

apochronaut wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:38 pm
Dipping an objective designed for air into oil can't be good. Wonder if this isn't the first time?
The OP mentioned that a coverslip was placed on top of the oil, so not immersion.

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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#26 Post by apochronaut » Wed Mar 15, 2023 1:37 am

Oops. Sorry dirigibil. thanks for the clarification Hobbyst46.

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Re: Olympus E A40 0.65 160 Objective Haze

#27 Post by dirigibil » Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:38 pm

Update: replaced with a Nikon E-Plan 40x (top black bottom silver with knurl in the center). Included is the result. Note that the bending of the lines do not appear in the eye-pieces, it seems to be something my iPhone camera is doing.
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