Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

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shutterbug
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Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#1 Post by shutterbug » Fri Mar 31, 2023 1:01 pm

Hello!


In order to clean and prepare (and probably also repair) bugs for photography I need a microscope - and a stereo microscope should be best suited for the task.

My specimens range from a few mm to a few cm so it doesn't have a have a huge magnification, though a rather wide field of view at low magnifications could be helpful when I have to "arrange"/pose the legs of my critters.

Since this will not be used for photography or for lab uses or anything beyond visual inspection and it doesn't have to feature things like bottom illumination, a boom arm, a trinocular head,... etc I'm trying to keep the costs rather low so anything below 500€ would be appreciated.

The only thing that it should have is an angled head - otherwise my neck won't be happy.

I've zero experience with stereo microscopes so I don't really know which ones would fit the bill - there are so many from AmScope or Swift or Lacerta but there's not really any possibility for me to test and compare them, otherwise I would not bother you with that.

Do you have any recommendation?

Thanks in advance!

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imkap
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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#2 Post by imkap » Fri Mar 31, 2023 1:26 pm

Hi, I have a spare Olympus SZ40 I want to sell, price would be within your budget, it is in nice condition. Pm me for details, I'm in Croatia...

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#3 Post by Phill Brown » Fri Mar 31, 2023 3:00 pm

Get the best quality, buy nice or buy twice.
Avoid plastic.

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#4 Post by apochronaut » Fri Mar 31, 2023 3:10 pm

There should be some good Jena stereos in your neck of the woods. They would go cheap I would think. I'm not sure if Reichert Austria marketed rebadged AO stereostars and or Cycloptics there or not but a Cycloptic now commands very little in $. If they are around??
It has the advantage of being apochromatic and having multiple apochromatic primary objectives avsilable for a wide range of magnifications up to 40X. Step objective tumbler, for 5 magnifications with the 6 position objective changer , per change of the primary objective( thread in, thread out) . There were also supplemental objectives up to 2X. It can go to 80X total but the contrast suffers. 20mm f.o.v.---20mm at 10X .
Occasionally prisms detach on very old ones, usually because an elbow knocked one off a bench. Give the head a little shake to see if there is a rattle. There are only 2 roof prisms total, so it will either rattle or not.

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#5 Post by shutterbug » Fri Mar 31, 2023 6:54 pm

apochronaut wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 3:10 pm
There should be some good Jena stereos in your neck of the woods. They would go cheap I would think. I'm not sure if Reichert Austria marketed rebadged AO stereostars and or Cycloptics there or not but a Cycloptic now commands very little in $. If they are around??
It has the advantage of being apochromatic and having multiple apochromatic primary objectives avsilable for a wide range of magnifications up to 40X. Step objective tumbler, for 5 magnifications with the 6 position objective changer , per change of the primary objective( thread in, thread out) . There were also supplemental objectives up to 2X. It can go to 80X total but the contrast suffers. 20mm f.o.v.---20mm at 10X .
Occasionally prisms detach on very old ones, usually because an elbow knocked one off a bench. Give the head a little shake to see if there is a rattle. There are only 2 roof prisms total, so it will either rattle or not.
The problem with Zeiss/Jena and even Reicherts is that they're absolutely ridiculously overpriced in Austria and Germany alike and 99.9% of all listings are called "stereo-microscope" but are just binocular compounds.
The few actual stereos I've found are totally trashed :-/

I couldn't find AP Stereostars or Cycloptics but I'll keep my eyes open for them!!


Thanks @imkap - but I think it might be a bit out of my price range including shipping - and I need an invoice for my tax accountant :oops:

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#6 Post by Phill Brown » Fri Mar 31, 2023 7:49 pm

I have Watson triple turret stereo. (3 of them).
Very solid made in the UK, they come up on eBay UK fairly often.
£60 onwards, might be worth a look.
No real reason to need one in a case.
All metal,built to last.
Found one described as
Watson antique microscope.

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#7 Post by shutterbug » Fri Mar 31, 2023 9:23 pm

They look very sturdy, Phill! Right now there's only one listing though, for 26 scopes for 900€ + 570€ shipping + tax +import duty :-D not sure I'm going to need that many

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#8 Post by imkap » Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:19 pm

shutterbug wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 6:54 pm
The problem with Zeiss/Jena and even Reicherts is that they're absolutely ridiculously overpriced in Austria and Germany alike and 99.9% of all listings are called "stereo-microscope" but are just binocular compounds.
The few actual stereos I've found are totally trashed :-/

I couldn't find AP Stereostars or Cycloptics but I'll keep my eyes open for them!!

Thanks @imkap - but I think it might be a bit out of my price range including shipping - and I need an invoice for my tax accountant :oops:
I've looked through a few older stereo microscopes (50s-70s) and they all had very nice image, if you can find them cheap I think that's great. If you go past 250€ then you should aim for 80s, 90s Nikon or Olympus, Leica or Zeiss too, but they seem to be a bit more expensive...
I probably won't sell mine in a month or more, so if you change your mind, you know where to find me.

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#9 Post by Scarodactyl » Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:54 pm

I like the SZ40 quite a bit for the record. Cycloptics are nice too but a bit more limiting in terms of accessories.
If you were in the US it would be a cinch to find a great used stereo, if it doesn't have to be trinocular an smz-1, smz-2b, bausch and lomb stereozoom or ao stereo star etc couls all be had pretty cheaply.

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#10 Post by Jose Antonio Mena » Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:18 am

Hi

Could be this nice?

https://www.ebay.es/itm/185784904711?ha ... R9yysLrnYQ


It´s a Nikon 73661 and it´s about 450 Euros in UK Ebay.

I bougth a nikon smz 2T for 300 Euros two years ago; I needed to wait and look fro months, but with time, you can find it.

JA

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#11 Post by shutterbug » Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:44 pm

Well hahah it just so happens that I might have already gotten an answer from Mr. MicrobeHunter Oliver himself!

He gave me a link in a comment to his review of the AmScope SM-1 TZ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6k-BPLIoFu0) . Even though I don't need a trinocular head (at least I don't think) it fits the bill otherwise!
Field of view at lowest magnification with the reducer is really good and with that I'll end up with a 3.5x - 22x scope!
The big plate and pretty huge working distance is also extremely welcome :)

And due to 30 days return window I'll have 0 risk - so I've ordered it and if I'm not happy I'll return it and I'll keep looking for a used Olympus or Nikon

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#12 Post by Scarodactyl » Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:12 pm

That model is very usable though not outstanding, sort of the minimum viable professional zoom stereo. You may find that it's plenty enough for your needs, a lot of people like them a lot (like Scotty from Strange Parts on youtube).

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#13 Post by shutterbug » Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:17 pm

Scarodactyl wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:12 pm
That model is very usable though not outstanding, sort of the minimum viable professional zoom stereo. You may find that it's plenty enough for your needs, a lot of people like them a lot (like Scotty from Strange Parts on youtube).
Well In that case I'm very optimistic!!
As I said I really "only" need it to arrange, clean and probably repair bugs/spiders, plants or prepare the odd slide or look at minerals, jewellery etc before taking photos to determine the most interesting angles, damaged areas etc.

So "the minimum viable professional zoom stereo" sounds pretty good! I guess we'll find out on Tuesday hehe

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#14 Post by Phill Brown » Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:33 pm

It'll be excellent for removing splinters.
Worth it for that alone.

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#15 Post by shutterbug » Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:48 pm

I've just watched Scottys video about his microscope - in some areas it's very similar, but 'my' base will be a bit wider and slightly flatter and the stand is quite a bit taller as well (200mm vs 140) which should help when using the Barlow.

Additionally it seems that his scope has different optics? It has no switch to engage the photo tube, which leads me to believe his trinocular head either has actually three lenses or that his phototube shares the path of one of his optics via a beam-splitter? Not quite sure which is it.

@Phil: Let's not talk about splinters. Had a bad experience with one which left me with a sizeable hole in my foot and 3 very painful injections with pretty hefty needles directly into my sole and a few weeks of being unable to walk.

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#16 Post by Scarodactyl » Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:55 pm

There are a few variations on the same theme, likely from a few different factories--they're all simplified copies of the Meiji emz series and they all seem to be fairly similar.

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#17 Post by Hobbyst46 » Sun Apr 02, 2023 10:38 am

IMHO the zoom feature is not important, whatever the required magnification. Most of the time, even two mag settings meet the requirements.
On the other way, the mechanical ergonomic features are important. For example, a larger tilt angle (so that the eyepiece tubes are not nearly vertical, as on the older microscopes. The working distance. The placement of top illumination - for example, the ubiquitous LED rings around the objectives seriously interfere with specimen handling. The height of the base above the work bench, and possible side palm rest pads. A large FOV would also be an advantage.

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#18 Post by shutterbug » Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:18 pm

Okay so I've tried the "AmScope" for a few hours.
I'm using " " because they sent me a No-Name with identical features, I'm guessing it's the same Chinese one that AmScope rebrands - but I think they probably keep the better ones and put their brand on it.

All in all it's pretty good but there are some things that I really don't like; first of all the 0.5x reducer they include. It's sharp but it creates a very noticeable white/milky ring and the lenses have internal reflections. Like a lot of them.
Also when zooming you can hear a slight grinding noise, it reminds me of what some telescope zoom eyepieces sound like..but...dry.

In short: I'm going to return it. It's not that it's a complete fail but I think I could get something better for my money. Maybe going with a used one is indeed the better way.

I should not have doubted you guys.

EDIT: However If found the zoom mechanism to be extremely helpful and useful!
Last edited by shutterbug on Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#19 Post by Phill Brown » Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:43 pm

I've had Chinese eyepieces with grease smudges on the internal non reflective wall.
It makes some clouding effects but it's noticeably patchy.
Good call sending back.
If it's like that new it's not going to get better.

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#20 Post by shutterbug » Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:57 pm

Yeah and it had other minor issues that were bugging me (little inside joke for our fellow entomologists out there):

During focussing the image kept creeping up and down (not due to gravity or lack of tension but due to too much play in the gears) and even without the Barlow lens it was very (!) prone to flare.

It's really too bad. The worst thing is that it was AmScope Global who sold it via Amazon. I mean it's an easy return with money back guaranteed but still - if AmScope Global sells Chinese knockoffs..well..

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#21 Post by Phill Brown » Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:07 pm

Don't feel bad about it.
It's probably been returned and repacked countless times.
They won't all be bad.
It's down to assembly as much as design.
I get the impression that the bad and the ugly get sent out regardless.

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#22 Post by shutterbug » Tue Apr 04, 2023 11:44 pm

You're probably right (I'm tempted to say: as usual hehe).
Perhaps I should get a desk magnifier or loupe for starters and see how far I can go with that.


And get a Swift Stellar 1 on the side ;-)

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#23 Post by Scarodactyl » Tue Apr 04, 2023 11:47 pm

It seems to be a common complaint that amscope stereos sometomes show up without the branding. Amacope's parent company also owns omax and euromex so it's likely their logistics of keeping which is which straight are a little wonky. To be clear though it's almost certainly the same as the ones with their logo stenciled on. Chinese factories offer badging as a standard option.
Anyway, bummer about the scope but nice to be able to return it.

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#24 Post by Phill Brown » Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:37 am

I see Brunel microscopes have a Watson stereo for sale.
It's the grey model triple which seems to have clearer optics than the older black models.
It's way more than I've paid for one.

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#25 Post by Rorschach » Thu Apr 06, 2023 5:17 pm

I might be able to put together a Wild stereo for you that would match your budget range. I think I have an extra Wild M3B, a binocular, a Wild achromat objective and Wild eyepieces stashed away. The only thing I am not sure about is a base/column. No lighting. Would you be interested?

I'm kind of an entomologist myself (benthic macroinvertebrates from streams & lakes).

Best regards,
Riku

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#26 Post by shutterbug » Thu Apr 06, 2023 7:24 pm

Rorschach wrote:
Thu Apr 06, 2023 5:17 pm
I might be able to put together a Wild stereo for you that would match your budget range. I think I have an extra Wild M3B, a binocular, a Wild achromat objective and Wild eyepieces stashed away. The only thing I am not sure about is a base/column. No lighting. Would you be interested?

I'm kind of an entomologist myself (benthic macroinvertebrates from streams & lakes).

Best regards,
Riku
Thank you for the offer! From what I can see the M3B has a lens-turret and not a zoom right?
I wasn't able to find a lot of info regarding the specs, do you happen to know whether the auxiliary lenses use the "regular" 48mm diameter? Does it come with a focussing unit to attach to a stand?

((Full disclosure; tomorrow I'm going to look at a few scopes at a local dealer, if I find something suitable I'll tell you as soon as possible as not to waste your time!))

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#27 Post by Phill Brown » Thu Apr 06, 2023 7:58 pm

Zoom is not necessary, I have a made in USSR binocular/stereo which is fixed 8.75 which sounds like not enough.
It's fixed on my lathe where it's good for anything down to the finish on 0.15 watch parts.
They come along for £20 onwards, didn't recommend because it's not angled for comfortable viewing, also have a vision mantis which is intended for PCB work, that's 10x which I've used for balance springs.
Seiko ladies automatic watches have some very small components, sometimes as simple as the coils on the balance stuck together by oil vapour residue.
X25 is likely plenty for stroking little legs about with a very fine brush.
Good luck, viewing with high magnification wide field is not the same as working under it.

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#28 Post by Scarodactyl » Thu Apr 06, 2023 8:21 pm

Variable magnification is pretty important for the stereo to be a versatile tool. The m3's step mag changer is pretty nice and covers the bases. I am currently building a working scope around a Leica MS5 which is basically an M3c in a plastic shell, really nice optics . Auxiliary lenses for these are not standard but compatible ones are still made by Motic and both those and originals are reasonably available on the used market. The m series is also fairly upgradeable, you could add some pretty ridiculous accessories to one of these

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#29 Post by shutterbug » Thu Apr 06, 2023 8:52 pm

Yeah, I definitely need a variable magnification, I'm not just arranging legs that are from a few cm down to a fraction of a mm - but I also have to clean them and change magnification frequently whilst doing that.
I don't expect any of this to be easy, if I wanted things to be easy I'd be a politician ;-)

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Re: Stereo-Microscope for Entomology on a Budget

#30 Post by Phill Brown » Thu Apr 06, 2023 8:54 pm

Variable choices yes.
Zoom, no.

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