Just bought a set of plan objectives

[MicroPunter]

I just bought a set of standard 160 DIN plan objectives from America. They had 4x, 10x, 20x, 40x, 60x and 100x but I decided not to get the 20x, so just five others. They were $50 each plus UPS shipping. Sounded like a great deal but I just found out there’s a £61 customs charge to be paid at delivery. Just thought I’d warn anyone thinking of doing the same. It may be cheaper to source local objectives.

[Scoper]

And your location is?

I too would like to see a discussion on the buying items across national borders including the hidden fees, enforcing of warranties and return options.

Thanks

[MicroPunter]

And your location is?

Sorry, I should have made it clear, although I though the pound sign might have been a clue, but I’m in the UK.

I think it would be very useful to discuss such issues as warrantees when buy across international borders. I really didn’t expect a surprise £61 extra charge from customs. I know, I should have done due diligence and checked before but I’d bought a set of dark field and oblique illumination filters from the same retailer in the US and they arrived with no surprises.

[Alexander]

A letter may pass customs but a package with 5 objectives never will. You always should calculate your local VAT plus a handling fee and sometimes custom duties adding to your purchase price. Not doing so is overly optimistic. That said, the difference in pricing between the US and UK or Europe is often large enough to justify the added cost. In addition you may find used items in the US which are barely offered for sale in the old world. I just bought an incident light system for the Zeiss Axioskop 20 from the US. This item is unattainable on this side of the Atlantic River.

[MicroPunter]

Not doing so is overly optimistic.

More naive than optimistic I’d say. In hindsight I should have anticipated some extra charges but I don’t order things from overseas very often. But this hobby is all about learning new things, it has introduced me to a new world and new way of seeing the old world around me. And I should be grateful to all learning experiences.

[Scarodactyl]

In my experience shipping from the US my single biggest source of trouble is UK customs. Very inconsistent, often fail to contact customers about owed duties and just send the package back on the slow boat.

[charlie g]

Hi, micropunter and all, I here in con-US dropped out of a fantastic gift clothing deal for my spouse, son, and others...wow, the company is located Shanghai/abroad..lead me to click on purchase prices...then came surprize step of: 'insurance fee', then came 'shipping cost'..!! I dropped off this fee- entrapment scam..but of course I still get ads for their wonderful looking tee-shirts.


The vendor who locked you ( micropunter) into this cascade of added fees...that vendor should have honestly beforehand noted the added fees. This a total abuse of seller platforms.

Recently I noticed on a major book seller platform ( an A, and a Z come to mind)...I noted when you are offered a used book at 'lower cost'...the shipping cost is higher...if you pay for same book at higher cost...the shipping cost is lower!?

Micropunter, you have felt the pains of our brave new world...and I feel your pain. On fees for simple books shipping...how on earth can the ship-fee go higher..when offered cost of the used text is lowered.

And the 'big suits' are touting a: 'free market globally'....nottt! charlie g

[Scarodactyl]

The vendor who locked you ( micropunter) into this cascade of added fees...that vendor should have honestly beforehand noted the added fees. This a total abuse of seller platforms.

Nah, this is the buyer paying his taxes, not a fee the seller gets. The seller has no control over what duties the destination country decides to charge its citizens.

[charlie g]

Hi, scarodactyle,...you assume a seller is oblivious to the market said seller pitches items for sale in? So said seller , when offering items for sale 'locally, and over seas'...this seller can be silent on 'trap door fees beyond sellers control'?

This is exactly why I am avoiding purchases from specific countries east of Germany....I worry about clarifying a problem item I might recieve...seems daunting for me to correct a problem amidst this uncharted terrain.


If the market fees, the vat, the insurances, the ship-fees, if these are all not listed...how can you do commerce with any seller?

My biggest lament, is that we tout this as a: 'free and open market'.

[Scarodactyl]

Hi, scarodactyle,...you assume a seller is oblivious to the market said seller pitches items for sale in? So said seller , when offering items for sale 'locally, and over seas'...this seller can be silent on 'trap door fees beyond sellers control'?

Absolutely. Every country has their own import duties and they are always the buyer's responsibility. It is not the seller's job to inform the buyer of their own country's laws.

[apochronaut]

I am at well over 2000 transactions through ebay in over 30 years, mostly as a buyer and most of them have come to me from the U.S. across a border. If I order something from Syracuse , which is 75 miles away , the shipping and import fees could be 4 times what the same item would cost to be shipped from Vancouver, which is 3500 miles away and the same or more if shipped from California or Mexico. I say could, because international fees are variable depending on who ships it, how it is shipped, how it is packaged, how it is described and how many hands get on it during transit. Governments are into cash grabs at the border but so are the private shippers who attach import brokerage fees. For small packages such as objectives, never ship internationally by Fedex, U.P.S., DHL etc. if you can avoid it. They will always apply brokerage fees, tax on those fees if applicable, duty if applicable , tax on the value if applicable etc. and those fees will rarely be disclosed at the time of paying the initial shipping fee. By far , the cheapest way to ship small items is through the mail because historically the mail has been treated as personal and private, not a as a commercial transaction. Unfortunately, there is a large distrust of the mail and the private couriers play this up and make it easy for shippers, with easy and frequent pick ups, so the mail is often being overlooked as a valid shipping option. A big part of this is that it takes time to go to the p.o. at both ends.
It is the buyer's responsibity to understand what is happening during shipping. I routinely instruct my vendor about how to ship and quite a few don't like it. For obvious reasons, there are people out there who have shipped 5 or 600 items that know nothing about what happened to those items during shipping but they think they know about shipping. I know almost everything about what happened to the items shipped to me because I see the results, so the receiver is the expert regarding shipping , not the sender and as the one ultimately paying the fee the receiver needs to educate themselves about the variables involved.
Let's look at that package from Vancouver and Syracuse and see what happens.
If it is shipped from Vancouver, it is dropped off at a post office, and the clerk makes sure it is addressed and packaged properly. The fee is paid, either tracked or not and then it travels either by truck train or air to Toronto , where it is rerouted to Belleville, then to the Picton p.o.. If shipped by a courier, it is picked up at the door or can be dropped off , given a barcode, then shipped again be either truck or air to Toronto, where it is rerouted to the Belleville terminal and then delivered to my door.The basic courier fee, will be more than the p.o. but could be less if the p.o. method is time sensitive. The security in my experience is higher with the p.o. U.P.S. in particular seems to lose things.... but they sometimes find them again. If the p.o. loses something, it is usually gone but I have found that rare.

Now, shipped from Syracuse, the situation is very similar but with slightly higher initial cost at the p.o. but considerably higher with a courier . There is no real reason there, just that it is "international". There are more magic fees at the border. There it is always a letter of the law situation with a courier who hire a broker to do most of it all and you pay for that , mandatory customs involvement, plus tax likely. With the p.o. there is no customs broker in Canada. The postal employees put the items on a belt and the customs employees randomly take items off of the belt for either cursory or detailed inspection. Only if the item is inspected are any extra fees applied which is 10.00 plus applicable taxes on the value of the import. Duty will apply sometimes if applicable. It takes time to inspect a package so there are triggers that attract it's attention so the biggest bang for the time spent takes place.
I) The professionalism of the packaging. If the label and precision of the box are printed and tidy , then it is more likely a commercial transaction and has a value attached. Everything is supposed to have a declaration of value but personal transfers of goods are only taxable above 50.00 here and only if inspected, wheras a commercial transaction is taxable on any value and receive undue attention. cash grab.
2) Large or heavy boxes are targetted, being seen as potentially of more value. cash grab.
3) Packages with high value declaration. cash grab.
4) Suspicious packages. Vague but that's for contraband, which fortunately consumes a lot of attention.
Small packages with hand written addressing and taped up corners get little attention. Most small package international mail here, gets delivered with no questions asked and untracked small packets are shipped in the regular mail bag, so go with letters. Often an untracked small packet will arrive faster than a tracked one because it is first class lettermail with little customs sorting.
With larger packages, the situation is similar, only there is more attention given to them due to value and size.

The cost of shipping has very little to do with distance or volumetric considerations, it has to do with the degree of attention all the eyes in the system put towards the package. Minimize it's visibility and you minimize the cost. It will still get there. In the 30+ years of shipping I have been regularly involved with I have had about 10 packages not arrive when expected or damaged and all were adjusted accordingly or eventually found, except 3. Well over 500 of the packages I have received have been untracked small boxes or envelopes ; I've lost count but I get about 1 a week and in all those years, I have only not received or had any not received only once and it was a scam by the vendor. Tracking and insurance are only vague guarantees. I have had two genuine disappearances in all those shipments and both were tracked....to erehwon. One application for insurance was denied because no proof of fault could be found. International shipping insurance is another cash grab. How many times does it pay out effectively?

The best way to ship, unless you know for sure that the country you are shipping to is a known hotbed of postal theft ( Italy?) is by mail and as inconspicuously as possible and by all means learn about how your system works and try to instruct the shipper how to work around that and get your package to you without the attention of all those prying eyes and barcode maniacs.

[MicroPunter]

The vendor who locked you ( micropunter) into this cascade of added fees...that vendor should have honestly beforehand noted the added fees. This a total abuse of seller platforms.

There really are some unscrupulous sellers out there but I don’t think this one was doing that. I went back and looked at their site and they do mention that there may be local taxes to pay. If you are selling worldwide, it’s not really feasible for you to keep monitoring the import tax position of every country you export to. It was my fault I didn’t read their warning and go check before making the purchase. But as for your book issue, I totally agree, that seems like a scam to me.