New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
Well, went and did it.
Had been chasing this Microscope for a few months now. Seller and I could never reach an agreement.
He had got it into his head that it was worth much more than it actually was worth, to the extent that even half of what he wanted was still overpriced.
Had long given up when I got an email from him last week out of the blue.
So off I went today, Saturday 25 of October and drove 150 Km to a City called Valencia.
Microscope was in better and also in worse condition than the impression the photos he had originally published had given me.
Both coarse and fine focus are in very good condition as are both x and y stage movement and the condenser height adjustment
The bad news.
Binocular head is very dirty, a good clean should show if it has fungus or not.
Oculars very basic
Planned to replace with Trinocular Head anyway , so not a major problem.
Objectives look a little doggy, one broken. Have however just recently purchased 4 Zeiss achromats locally with this in mind.
The biggest disappointment is the illuminator, they have managed to lose a screw since their original photos, and the bulb socket is missing as well. Also the lamp housing connector does not fit well, it rocks too much.
I would like to know if the rest of the illuminator components are as they should be.
i.e. What does it need to work properly and what do I need to replace?
A detailed breakdown of the components and how they work would be very useful.
Anyone have a manual for this/or the illuminator?
+ Model number for microscope would be nice.
Had been chasing this Microscope for a few months now. Seller and I could never reach an agreement.
He had got it into his head that it was worth much more than it actually was worth, to the extent that even half of what he wanted was still overpriced.
Had long given up when I got an email from him last week out of the blue.
So off I went today, Saturday 25 of October and drove 150 Km to a City called Valencia.
Microscope was in better and also in worse condition than the impression the photos he had originally published had given me.
Both coarse and fine focus are in very good condition as are both x and y stage movement and the condenser height adjustment
The bad news.
Binocular head is very dirty, a good clean should show if it has fungus or not.
Oculars very basic
Planned to replace with Trinocular Head anyway , so not a major problem.
Objectives look a little doggy, one broken. Have however just recently purchased 4 Zeiss achromats locally with this in mind.
The biggest disappointment is the illuminator, they have managed to lose a screw since their original photos, and the bulb socket is missing as well. Also the lamp housing connector does not fit well, it rocks too much.
I would like to know if the rest of the illuminator components are as they should be.
i.e. What does it need to work properly and what do I need to replace?
A detailed breakdown of the components and how they work would be very useful.
Anyone have a manual for this/or the illuminator?
+ Model number for microscope would be nice.
Last edited by 75RR on Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:40 pm, edited 6 times in total.
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope Help
Congratulations! Very nice Zeiss microscope. I trust that you will be able to get into working condition soon so we can enjoy your excellent images!
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope Help
Thanks. Am both excited and nervous.Congratulations! Very nice Zeiss microscope.
Put both microscopes side by side, the Junior is at least by size, definitely Junior!
Main reason to go for this was to be able to use Köhler.
Have heard great things about Köhler.
I also needed more light in order to be able to use a 50/50 light split with a trinocular variation based on a cube I am working on.
Will keep you posted.
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
First, it should not be a problem to get spare parts for a Zeiss. Second, did you consider converting the microscope to LED? Some people have done this already.
Oliver.
Oliver.
Oliver Kim - http://www.microbehunter.com - Microscopes: Olympus CH40 - Olympus CH-A - Breukhoven BMS student microscope - Euromex stereo - uSCOPE MXII
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
Yes I had.Second, did you consider converting the microscope to LED?
That was my next question.
Anyone familiar with this contraption?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LED-retrofit-wi ... 3a97438fe7
Also I do not seem to have a "Collector optic lens".
See 4th image in advert. (Dovetail closeup)
I think I need a manual for the illuminator to sort out what is what.
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
The seller does not specifically indicate. as far as I could tell from the listing, that the LED lamp is designed to give Koehler illumination. Since one reason you got the microscope was to have Koehler, you may want to ask the seller.75RR wrote:Anyone familiar with this contraption?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LED-retrofit-wi ... 3a97438fe7
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
I think that the Koehler illumination has to be managed by the optics beneath the stage. This is only about the lamp. The light is directed from the back of the microscope into the base of the microscope, from where it is redirected (prism or mirror) upwards towards the stage. The question is, if the base of the Zeiss has a Koehler diaphragm and corresponding optics, I think this has nothing to do with the lamp itself, but please correct me if I am wrong. Maybe the Zeiss lamp at the back also has built in optics and this is not managed beneath the stage?
Oliver.
Oliver.
Oliver Kim - http://www.microbehunter.com - Microscopes: Olympus CH40 - Olympus CH-A - Breukhoven BMS student microscope - Euromex stereo - uSCOPE MXII
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
It is my understanding (could well be wrong) that Köhler illumination requires the ability to focus the light source (generally achieved by moving bulb forwards and backwards) and a diaphragm to concentrate light.
That is a good point!The seller does not specifically indicate ...
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
True, but I believe (although, as always, I could be wrong) that the original Zeiss lamp housing incorporates some of the optics that are part of the Koehler system (collector lens, at least, and possibly the field diaphragm, although this could be in the microscope base, or between the lamp housing and the microscope, I don't know). I don't think that merely putting an LED behind the rear port without the proper optics will provide Koehler illumination.Oliver wrote:I think that the Koehler illumination has to be managed by the optics beneath the stage. This is only about the lamp. The light is directed from the back of the microscope into the base of the microscope, from where it is redirected (prism or mirror) upwards towards the stage. The question is, if the base of the Zeiss has a Koehler diaphragm and corresponding optics, I think this has nothing to do with the lamp itself, but please correct me if I am wrong. Maybe the Zeiss lamp at the back also has built in optics and this is not managed beneath the stage?
Oliver.
Yes, it requires that the light source itself be (a) focused (or focusable) such that its image is formed on the condenser aperture, and (b) that this image should be large enough to fill the condenser aperture when fully open [or, equivalently, since the back focal plane of the objective and the condenser aperture are optical conjugates, an image of the light source should be focused at the back focal plane of the objective, and should be large enough to fill the largest NA objective that is to be used (usually the 100x oil-immersion) with the condenser (with NA of 1.25 or larger) oiled to the slide and its diaphragm fully open]. In addition, as you've already indicated, it requires a field diaphragm that is located in a conjugate of the image plane (e.g., plane of focus of the microscope when observing an object on a slide), hence the need to adjust the condenser height to get the field diaphragm in focus when the object is in focus.75RR wrote:It is my understanding (could well be wrong) that Köhler illumination requires the ability to focus the light source (generally achieved by moving bulb forwards and backwards) and a diaphragm to concentrate light.
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
Köhler illumination requires a diaphragm/aperture in the light source immediately below the condenser and is referred to as the Field Diaphragm/Aperture.
Köhler illumination is based on the ability to focus the microscope condenser on the leaves of the aperture.
The basic procedure is:
Close the field aperture.
Use the condenser focus adjuster to get a clear image of the aperture leaves.
Open the aperture so the edge of the leaves fill 2/3 of the image.
Refocus the condenser on the aperture.
Open the Field Aperture until you can no longer see the leaves and there are no shadows in the corners.
This type of illumination is only valid for objectives => 10x
On the microscope shown in your post, if the ring on the base below the condenser rotates, you have a field Aperture.
Regarding the LED retro fit kit.
The LED is a 10watt unit, roughly equivalent to a 45 watt halogen bulb. 800 lumens is not very bright if you plan on doing any Darkfield imaging.
My LB-592 has a similar lighting method to your scope. It has 100W halogen lamp and so far I have not been able to find an affordable LED replacement.
I stress affordable as there is a replacement LED available from a firm in the Netherlands for approximately $150.00 US.
Köhler illumination is based on the ability to focus the microscope condenser on the leaves of the aperture.
The basic procedure is:
Close the field aperture.
Use the condenser focus adjuster to get a clear image of the aperture leaves.
Open the aperture so the edge of the leaves fill 2/3 of the image.
Refocus the condenser on the aperture.
Open the Field Aperture until you can no longer see the leaves and there are no shadows in the corners.
This type of illumination is only valid for objectives => 10x
On the microscope shown in your post, if the ring on the base below the condenser rotates, you have a field Aperture.
Regarding the LED retro fit kit.
The LED is a 10watt unit, roughly equivalent to a 45 watt halogen bulb. 800 lumens is not very bright if you plan on doing any Darkfield imaging.
My LB-592 has a similar lighting method to your scope. It has 100W halogen lamp and so far I have not been able to find an affordable LED replacement.
I stress affordable as there is a replacement LED available from a firm in the Netherlands for approximately $150.00 US.
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
Hi 75RR,
You won't be able to do much with your "new" microscope without the bulb mount. Do you have the 12volt variable transformer to power it? From your photo it looks like you have a Standard RA, but I am probably wrong. Zeiss may be able to supply you with the missing parts however that will probably cost as much as you paid for the rest of the microscope! I have attempted to include a scan of the instructions for the illuminator.
Good luck (you'll probably need it).
Peter.
You won't be able to do much with your "new" microscope without the bulb mount. Do you have the 12volt variable transformer to power it? From your photo it looks like you have a Standard RA, but I am probably wrong. Zeiss may be able to supply you with the missing parts however that will probably cost as much as you paid for the rest of the microscope! I have attempted to include a scan of the instructions for the illuminator.
Good luck (you'll probably need it).
Peter.
Zeiss Microscope illuminator
75RR:
If the instructions posted by Peter are for your microscope and you have the 15W illuminator AND the illuminator opening is 43mm, the Retro Fit LED unit should be adequate for the microscope.
Peter's instructions indicate the standard lamp is 15W . The retro Fit unit comes close and may be worth the $135.00CDN. It certainly will be less than buying from Zeiss.
If the instructions posted by Peter are for your microscope and you have the 15W illuminator AND the illuminator opening is 43mm, the Retro Fit LED unit should be adequate for the microscope.
Peter's instructions indicate the standard lamp is 15W . The retro Fit unit comes close and may be worth the $135.00CDN. It certainly will be less than buying from Zeiss.
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
Thanks. If you could link the whole manual that would be most useful.I have attempted to include a scan of the instructions for the illuminator.
Still trying to get a grip on things.
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
Opening is 43, illuminator is however 12v 60w as far as I can tell.75RR:
If the instructions posted by Peter are for your microscope and you have the 15W illuminator AND the illuminator opening is 43mm, the Retro Fit LED unit should be adequate for the microscope.
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
The RetroFit kit is complete with power supply and dimmer. You do not and cannot use another power supply.
The illuminator fits into the dovetail and is fastened with the screw on the side of the microscope housing.
If your original bulb was 60w, then the RetroFit kit should be adequate.
The illuminator fits into the dovetail and is fastened with the screw on the side of the microscope housing.
If your original bulb was 60w, then the RetroFit kit should be adequate.
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
please re-provide link.The RetroFit kit is complete with power supply and dimmer. You do not and cannot use another power supply.
The illuminator fits into the dovetail and is fastened with the screw on the side of the microscope housing.
If your original bulb was 60w, then the RetroFit kit should be adequate.
Is this the dutch site?
They do not explain things well.
Can I get Köhler with this system?
How do I do so?
Can I manipulate the intensity of the light, is there a dimmer?
.
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
LED retrofit with dimmer control for older ZEISS microscopes.
This is the Ebay item you posted earlier.
It is a 10w LED that fits into the light port of your microscope. It is a complete kit with power supply and dimmer.
Köhler illumination is accomplished with a field diaphragm.
Place a LED flash light in the light port.
Look at the light coming out of the base of the microscope.
Does the ring on the base of the microscope below the condenser turn and vary the light?
If so, you can do Köhler illumination.
If not, you cannot do Köhler illumination.
This is the Ebay item you posted earlier.
It is a 10w LED that fits into the light port of your microscope. It is a complete kit with power supply and dimmer.
Köhler illumination is accomplished with a field diaphragm.
Place a LED flash light in the light port.
Look at the light coming out of the base of the microscope.
Does the ring on the base of the microscope below the condenser turn and vary the light?
If so, you can do Köhler illumination.
If not, you cannot do Köhler illumination.
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
Thought you were referring to another link.
Ring below condenser does turn, not sure if this is enough to achieve Köhler.
Doesn't the light have to be focused as well ?
I think just having a diaphragm is not enough, if it were, Köhler would be easy.
Ring below condenser does turn, not sure if this is enough to achieve Köhler.
Doesn't the light have to be focused as well ?
I think just having a diaphragm is not enough, if it were, Köhler would be easy.
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
Köhler is easy.Köhler would be easy.
The lamp is focused when it is installed if there is a focusing mechanism.
A field diaphragm, adjustable height (focusing) condenser is all that is needed for Köhler illumination.
It really is easy.
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
You say this, but this is about my microscope. I am not interested in theory.Köhler is easy.
The lamp is focused when it is installed if there is a focusing mechanism.
Can I get Köhler with my microscope and this ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/LED-retrofit-wi ... 3a97438fe7) Led lighting ?
That is all I am interested in.
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
Did you try the flash light test I posted earlier?
Did turning the wheel change the light?
Is there a knob that moves the condenser up and down?
As I mentioned before. If yes, then you can do Köhler illumination.
If those two devices are present and working you can do Köhler illumination.
It does not matter what type of illumination you use.
If your microscope has the basics, you can do Köhler illumination
Did turning the wheel change the light?
Is there a knob that moves the condenser up and down?
As I mentioned before. If yes, then you can do Köhler illumination.
If those two devices are present and working you can do Köhler illumination.
It does not matter what type of illumination you use.
If your microscope has the basics, you can do Köhler illumination
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
A very good explanation (diagram) of Koehler illumination:
http://zeiss-campus.magnet.fsu.edu/arti ... ohler.html
The condenser iris diaphragm is located at the "Front Focal Plane of Condenser".
http://zeiss-campus.magnet.fsu.edu/arti ... ohler.html
The condenser iris diaphragm is located at the "Front Focal Plane of Condenser".
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
Thanks The QCC and gekko,
what with trying to read internet articles, messing about with the microscope and replying to posts I was not doing any of them justice.
To clarify:
If I can focus the light source (forward/backward movement) and have a field diaphragm and can move the condenser (up/down) then Köhler illumination can be achieved.
Thanks :)
what with trying to read internet articles, messing about with the microscope and replying to posts I was not doing any of them justice.
To clarify:
If I can focus the light source (forward/backward movement) and have a field diaphragm and can move the condenser (up/down) then Köhler illumination can be achieved.
Thanks :)
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
Focusing the light source is not a requirement for Köhler illumination.
The light source is focused once for all types of illumination.
The manufacturer of the microscope will have designed and focused the lamp and its collector lens.
This is not normally a field operation.
The light source is focused once for all types of illumination.
The manufacturer of the microscope will have designed and focused the lamp and its collector lens.
This is not normally a field operation.
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
That's where my confusion came from. The Zeiss external lamp housing is designed to be focused with a forward/backward movement of the bulb. It is also designed to be centered by the user.
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
Not to belittle your microscope, but it is old and microscope illumination technology has advanced.
I have four microscopes and on none of them is there any adjustments in the lamp house. All are factory aligned.
You need only worry about focusing the lamp if you replace the lamp house with an original Zeiss unit and before your try adjusting the lamp, get the manual for the scope,.
I have four microscopes and on none of them is there any adjustments in the lamp house. All are factory aligned.
You need only worry about focusing the lamp if you replace the lamp house with an original Zeiss unit and before your try adjusting the lamp, get the manual for the scope,.
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
Well, it all depends on whether you want any kind of illumination or Koehler illumination. If the latter, although as The QCC said, you may not need to have the lamp focusable (some newer microscopes have prefocused bulbs that have no provision for focusing or centering), the light source must be focused on the condenser aperture (and hence back focal plane of the objective and other conjugate planes as the Zeiss diagram I referred to earlier shows), and also the size of the image of the source must fill the highest NA objective in order to obtain the full resolution it is capable of. In addition, the field diaphragm must be imaged in the image plane (and its conjugates). The system is designed so the image of the illumination source is completely defocused in the image plane so that the illumination is perfectly even. Having a lamp that can be moved and an additional diaphragm somewhere below the condenser does not necessarily make it Koehler. One can argue that with an LED source that, unlike the filament of a tungsten source, has perfectly even brightness across the whole light emitting area, Koehler is not needed and that critical illumination, where the light source is itself focused (imaged) onto the image plane (slide) should be perfectly acceptable and no worse than Koehler, even though Koehler may still have the advantage of the field diaphragm limiting the illumination to the area of observation and reducing glare. At least that is the way I understand it.
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
I just remembered that Bill Porter converted his microscope to LED illumination as a DIY project (much less costly than buying one ready-made) and posted the video on the old forum, in case anyone might be interested:
http://www.microbehunter.com/forum/home ... icroscope/
His microscope is a Nikon Labophot, where all the Koehler optics are in the base of the microscope, and the original lamp housing consisted only of the tungsten-halgoen bulb (no other optics). So the only requirements to maintain Koehler would have been (1) to have the light emitting surface of the LED in exactly the position that had been occupied by the filament of the halogen bulb, and (2) that the size of the light emitting surface of the LED be at least that of the tungsten filament.
http://www.microbehunter.com/forum/home ... icroscope/
His microscope is a Nikon Labophot, where all the Koehler optics are in the base of the microscope, and the original lamp housing consisted only of the tungsten-halgoen bulb (no other optics). So the only requirements to maintain Koehler would have been (1) to have the light emitting surface of the LED in exactly the position that had been occupied by the filament of the halogen bulb, and (2) that the size of the light emitting surface of the LED be at least that of the tungsten filament.
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
gekko
Many thanks for the video link and your comments.
Many thanks for the video link and your comments.
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Re: New to me Zeiss Microscope. Would like some help.
Need someone with hands on experience with Zeiss Standard Field Diaphragms.
There is no regular "leaf diaphragm" (as I have seen in some photos) yet turning the dial between 0 and 20 does seem to have a distorting effect.
Is this an alternative Field Diaphragm? Does not look broken nor does it seem to be missing anything.
Surface is a little worse for wear, inner parts are fine.
There is no regular "leaf diaphragm" (as I have seen in some photos) yet turning the dial between 0 and 20 does seem to have a distorting effect.
Is this an alternative Field Diaphragm? Does not look broken nor does it seem to be missing anything.
Surface is a little worse for wear, inner parts are fine.
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)